FORMER Manager Watch: Nuno Espírito Santo

[soflapaul]

I think starting today, I'll try to stay out of this thread. (Is there a way to ignore a thread?)

Can't really go through another Jose-type thread. Just hate to see all the vitriol and bickering.

But, regarding today's game: is a perfect example of having a fixed mindset on something versus a flexible one. We all tend to have a bias toward our initial reaction to things. So, those who disliked this appointment or outright hated it, will have very little leeway when it comes to the team performing badly and no matter the context, will cast those aspersions on the coach. That's totally fair.

What I watched today, and what I concluded is going to be different from those who have already made up their mind on Nuno. For what it is worth, here's what I think we struggled with, that wasn't entirely down to coaching:

1. Makeshift lineup due to injuries and players missing. So, always going to be a little iffy.
2. Tanguy finally starts. But hasn't played a single minute of competitive football since May. Not sure what anyone was expecting. But I saw some good bits, and saw some bits where he was off the pace. Hopefully his game-sharpness with improve.
3. It was an attacking line-up. One defensive midfielder. A front 3 of Kane, Stevie B, Moura. And Gil, and Tanguy playing behind them. They weren't playing conservatively. But that midfield was always going to struggle with a much more mature and well practiced press from Rennes.
4. Gil played poorly. Very poorly in fact. I'm sure he will improve. But it wasn't his day.
5. Stevie B and Lucas both get injured. I know some were upset that Stevie B was replaced by PEH, but to me it made perfect sense. We were getting overrun in midfield, and Gil could step forward into Stevie's role. What's so wrong about that?
6. Taking Kane off was the smart thing to do. As we are completely and utterly fucked right now. No Son, Stevie or Lucas for the Chelsea game, I'm guessing. And because we lack depth in attack, it's going to be very ugly attacking performance again. Oh, and Chelsea are a much better team than us at the moment. That can't be debated.
7. Doherty again proved that he isn't good enough for Spurs, or even the PL for that matter. He was next level awful. Sorry, but I can't blame every misplaced pass, half-hearted tackle, and inadequate positioning on Nuno.
8. Their first goal came from a lack of closing down from the midfield and defense. That was slightly on Tanguy. Second goals was 100% a goalie gaff. How is Nuno's tactics supposed to stop that from happening?
9. Outside of their two goals, we kept them fairly well contained.
10. I agree that our attacking style seems wayward. But, as we have seen with other coaches, that can take time to implement. I have no idea what I'd do in Nuno's position today. However, a lot of supporters feel he got it all wrong. He was at fault for Stevie tripping up over his own foot. Same with Lucas. He was at fault for Kane phoning it in again. He was at fault for finally playing Tanguy, but played him for too long, and was responsible for him not being fit enough.
11. Ben Davies is Ben-fucking-Davies, no matter who the manager is. Do you think he would have played if Sess wasn't (as usual), injured?
12. Nuno and Paratici are to blame for the choosing Dane over Troy. As the former is nowhere close to being ready for these types of games. Troy may not being pulling up trees, but he is further along physically than Dane. Choice there was tough, as they want Troy to get minutes. But given our inability to bring in more attacking talent at the end of the Window, we are now seeing our chickens coming home to roost.

Lastly, bringing Royal on, was more to do with working on his fitness. Could Markandy come on instead? I don't know. Maybe Nuno felt like with all of our attackers getting wiped out, maybe he'll need the kid this weekend. But it's not exactly a decision that points to a pattern of poor decision making and thinking defense first. Fuck it. I actually would have played a reserve team today, if I was coaching. Given the fragility of the squad, in terms of defense and attack missing players, I'd rather throw the white towel in on this one game, and then go for it in the remaining five games. Instead, he tried to go strong, and boy did it backfire spectacularly. Sunday is going to be bad. Very bad. No Stevie, Sonny, Moura. Only fit attacking players left are Kane and Gil. But of course, if we lose that game, many will not consider context. Just like the Palace game. As they've set out their stall and simply will not give the coach, his approach, his style a chance for more than 4 games.

We have won 3, and lost 1 in the PL after 4 games. The one we did lose was a perfect storm of shit. And already, there is a very vocal set of supporters who want him sacked ASAP.

I really just don't get it. I don't. But, I acknowledge how those on the other side of the fence feel. I get they are frustrated and annoyed. I get that they expect far more than what we are receiving. I get that they have a vision in their mind of what we should be, with the players we have, but that vision isn't coming to fruition. They're fed up and angry. Just like last year. I am just surprised that we are in mid-September and just how vexed some are, and even more taken aback by those who want him to be sacked immediately. Sheesh, it actually stresses me out when i read through this thread. Hence, I will do the right thing, and try to keep my distance.

Love you all. But, can't do another Jose thread.

Great post. Thanks for writing what some of us think. Also, that's a great book "Mindset" that would benefit most that read it.

 

[Sophos151]

Excellent post and I agree with pretty much all of it, however for balance, just wanted to point out that in regards to your comment on the "well practiced press from Rennes", their manager has only been in charge for 9 games more than Nuno has here. They are also in bad form in the league, wining just once in 5 games.

The Wolves and Palace sides who played us off the park also had new managers. Even Watford, who gave us a tough game, haven’t had their manager a full year yet.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Every minute this guy is Spurs manager is wasting time.

Ive said many times and I truly believe it, that levy is just waiting on Poch to finish up at psg. I think he really regrets backing the senior players over him and took what he brought to the club for granted . Don't think it will work out too great at PSG, not the kinda club you can impose yourself on.

Nuno won't be here too long

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

PEH interview post match.
Probably reading too much into it but didn’t seem too enthusiastic about the question about Nuno around 1 minute mark.

He then went on to say that we’d started the season as solid and hard to beat and hard to play between the lines and that’s what we want to continue to do… zzzzzzz

Nunoball is going to be a fun ride then as we all expected

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think starting today, I'll try to stay out of this thread. (Is there a way to ignore a thread?)

Can't really go through another Jose-type thread. Just hate to see all the vitriol and bickering.

But, regarding today's game: is a perfect example of having a fixed mindset on something versus a flexible one. We all tend to have a bias toward our initial reaction to things. So, those who disliked this appointment or outright hated it, will have very little leeway when it comes to the team performing badly and no matter the context, will cast those aspersions on the coach. That's totally fair.

What I watched today, and what I concluded is going to be different from those who have already made up their mind on Nuno. For what it is worth, here's what I think we struggled with, that wasn't entirely down to coaching:

1. Makeshift lineup due to injuries and players missing. So, always going to be a little iffy.
2. Tanguy finally starts. But hasn't played a single minute of competitive football since May. Not sure what anyone was expecting. But I saw some good bits, and saw some bits where he was off the pace. Hopefully his game-sharpness with improve.
3. It was an attacking line-up. One defensive midfielder. A front 3 of Kane, Stevie B, Moura. And Gil, and Tanguy playing behind them. They weren't playing conservatively. But that midfield was always going to struggle with a much more mature and well practiced press from Rennes.
4. Gil played poorly. Very poorly in fact. I'm sure he will improve. But it wasn't his day.
5. Stevie B and Lucas both get injured. I know some were upset that Stevie B was replaced by PEH, but to me it made perfect sense. We were getting overrun in midfield, and Gil could step forward into Stevie's role. What's so wrong about that?
6. Taking Kane off was the smart thing to do. As we are completely and utterly fucked right now. No Son, Stevie or Lucas for the Chelsea game, I'm guessing. And because we lack depth in attack, it's going to be very ugly attacking performance again. Oh, and Chelsea are a much better team than us at the moment. That can't be debated.
7. Doherty again proved that he isn't good enough for Spurs, or even the PL for that matter. He was next level awful. Sorry, but I can't blame every misplaced pass, half-hearted tackle, and inadequate positioning on Nuno.
8. Their first goal came from a lack of closing down from the midfield and defense. That was slightly on Tanguy. Second goals was 100% a goalie gaff. How is Nuno's tactics supposed to stop that from happening?
9. Outside of their two goals, we kept them fairly well contained.
10. I agree that our attacking style seems wayward. But, as we have seen with other coaches, that can take time to implement. I have no idea what I'd do in Nuno's position today. However, a lot of supporters feel he got it all wrong. He was at fault for Stevie tripping up over his own foot. Same with Lucas. He was at fault for Kane phoning it in again. He was at fault for finally playing Tanguy, but played him for too long, and was responsible for him not being fit enough.
11. Ben Davies is Ben-fucking-Davies, no matter who the manager is. Do you think he would have played if Sess wasn't (as usual), injured?
12. Nuno and Paratici are to blame for the choosing Dane over Troy. As the former is nowhere close to being ready for these types of games. Troy may not being pulling up trees, but he is further along physically than Dane. Choice there was tough, as they want Troy to get minutes. But given our inability to bring in more attacking talent at the end of the Window, we are now seeing our chickens coming home to roost.

Lastly, bringing Royal on, was more to do with working on his fitness. Could Markandy come on instead? I don't know. Maybe Nuno felt like with all of our attackers getting wiped out, maybe he'll need the kid this weekend. But it's not exactly a decision that points to a pattern of poor decision making and thinking defense first. Fuck it. I actually would have played a reserve team today, if I was coaching. Given the fragility of the squad, in terms of defense and attack missing players, I'd rather throw the white towel in on this one game, and then go for it in the remaining five games. Instead, he tried to go strong, and boy did it backfire spectacularly. Sunday is going to be bad. Very bad. No Stevie, Sonny, Moura. Only fit attacking players left are Kane and Gil. But of course, if we lose that game, many will not consider context. Just like the Palace game. As they've set out their stall and simply will not give the coach, his approach, his style a chance for more than 4 games.

We have won 3, and lost 1 in the PL after 4 games. The one we did lose was a perfect storm of shit. And already, there is a very vocal set of supporters who want him sacked ASAP.

I really just don't get it. I don't. But, I acknowledge how those on the other side of the fence feel. I get they are frustrated and annoyed. I get that they expect far more than what we are receiving. I get that they have a vision in their mind of what we should be, with the players we have, but that vision isn't coming to fruition. They're fed up and angry. Just like last year. I am just surprised that we are in mid-September and just how vexed some are, and even more taken aback by those who want him to be sacked immediately. Sheesh, it actually stresses me out when i read through this thread. Hence, I will do the right thing, and try to keep my distance.

Love you all. But, can't do another Jose thread.

Really nice post mate and you’re right these types of threads can be seen as toxic so if you don’t want to go through it again as with the Jose thread then respect to you for doing what is best for you and your mental health and enjoyment of the forum etc but with all due respect this isn’t about people just having pre-conceptions and going with those.

90% of the posters in this Nuno thread agree that the squad and players are also a big part of the problem BUT quite simply Nuno is not capable and/or interested in coaching the team to play in a let’s call it for arguments sake “free flowing attacking style of play” and so after enduring 18months of the shite Jose served up, many of us are rightly not very enthusiastic about watching yet more turgid football and likely average results at best served up by a manager who isn’t and never was the right fit for our club and one who the vast majority of the fans had absolutely no interest in having at our club. AND he certainly wasn’t high up the clubs list by all accounts he was about their 8th choice at best!

There is no room for sentimentality here, yes there are some mitigating factors in terms of a few players having not been available or injured etc and to his credit Nuno dealt with the Kane situ very well but all signs are pointing towards much of the same style of football.

It’s not Nuno’s fault, he seems like a good guy and he’s jumped at the chance to take a step up in his managerial career but he’s not the right fit for us and we are just wasting yet more time and it’s very frustrating and insulting to our fanbase.

 

[spurs mental]

But he plays a big part. Look at how quick wolves and even palace have changed the way they play. Ok their results havent been good but that comes from trying to play a new style. Wolves will do well and you can see the attacking football they are trying. You cant say the same for us and nuno.

Wolves lost Jimenez and Jota last season. Before that they played some great stuff. It's a myth that he didn't play attacking football with Wolves.

 

[DiVaio]

2 year contract says it all

As it's been mentioned hundred times already in this thread, 2 years contract is basically the standard length of contract nowadays. Tuchel and Poch both signed a contract until 2023, Guardiola extended his contract under 2023 etc Three years max

 

[bubble07]

Nuno deserves time BUT wolves fans and neutrals are saying how much more entertaining wolves are with their new manager

 

[wadewill]

Poch in by Boxing Day

Always thought the 2 year contract was so it was easy to get rid once PSG bin Mo Po

 

[spurs mental]

Tuchel fixed Chelsea pretty much straight away?

Elite managers are able to make an instant impact.

Any good manager was fixing them. They'd spent over 200m on new players.

And I don't think he even did fix them straight away. They stopped conceding goals but they still had major issues scoring goals.

They don't play great free flowing football either but they're all good players and play in a system they're now familiar with.

 

[gaz73]

Poch in by Boxing Day

Always thought the 2 year contract was so it was easy to get rid once PSG bin Mo Po

We can only hope.... this will end badly

 

[JCRD]

Ive said many times and I truly believe it, that levy is just waiting on Poch to finish up at psg. I think he really regrets backing the senior players over him and took what he brought to the club for granted . Don't think it will work out too great at PSG, not the kinda club you can impose yourself on.

Nuno won't be here too long

I mentioned this just after the Palace defeat. If Poch got fired tomorrow make no mistake, Levy would fire Nuno in a heartbeat and bring in Poch.

Maybe Levy is playing th elong game I dont know but a two year contract to Nuno speaks volume. I genuinely dont think anyone else would take the job bar Poch.

The thing is if Poch cant do well with that PSG squad, and im talking CL here, then what does that say about Poch? Then again PSG is a fucking circus.

 

[piedpiper]

I think starting today, I'll try to stay out of this thread. (Is there a way to ignore a thread?)

Can't really go through another Jose-type thread. Just hate to see all the vitriol and bickering.

But, regarding today's game: is a perfect example of having a fixed mindset on something versus a flexible one. We all tend to have a bias toward our initial reaction to things. So, those who disliked this appointment or outright hated it, will have very little leeway when it comes to the team performing badly and no matter the context, will cast those aspersions on the coach. That's totally fair.

What I watched today, and what I concluded is going to be different from those who have already made up their mind on Nuno. For what it is worth, here's what I think we struggled with, that wasn't entirely down to coaching:

1. Makeshift lineup due to injuries and players missing. So, always going to be a little iffy.
2. Tanguy finally starts. But hasn't played a single minute of competitive football since May. Not sure what anyone was expecting. But I saw some good bits, and saw some bits where he was off the pace. Hopefully his game-sharpness with improve.
3. It was an attacking line-up. One defensive midfielder. A front 3 of Kane, Stevie B, Moura. And Gil, and Tanguy playing behind them. They weren't playing conservatively. But that midfield was always going to struggle with a much more mature and well practiced press from Rennes.
4. Gil played poorly. Very poorly in fact. I'm sure he will improve. But it wasn't his day.
5. Stevie B and Lucas both get injured. I know some were upset that Stevie B was replaced by PEH, but to me it made perfect sense. We were getting overrun in midfield, and Gil could step forward into Stevie's role. What's so wrong about that?
6. Taking Kane off was the smart thing to do. As we are completely and utterly fucked right now. No Son, Stevie or Lucas for the Chelsea game, I'm guessing. And because we lack depth in attack, it's going to be very ugly attacking performance again. Oh, and Chelsea are a much better team than us at the moment. That can't be debated.
7. Doherty again proved that he isn't good enough for Spurs, or even the PL for that matter. He was next level awful. Sorry, but I can't blame every misplaced pass, half-hearted tackle, and inadequate positioning on Nuno.
8. Their first goal came from a lack of closing down from the midfield and defense. That was slightly on Tanguy. Second goals was 100% a goalie gaff. How is Nuno's tactics supposed to stop that from happening?
9. Outside of their two goals, we kept them fairly well contained.
10. I agree that our attacking style seems wayward. But, as we have seen with other coaches, that can take time to implement. I have no idea what I'd do in Nuno's position today. However, a lot of supporters feel he got it all wrong. He was at fault for Stevie tripping up over his own foot. Same with Lucas. He was at fault for Kane phoning it in again. He was at fault for finally playing Tanguy, but played him for too long, and was responsible for him not being fit enough.
11. Ben Davies is Ben-fucking-Davies, no matter who the manager is. Do you think he would have played if Sess wasn't (as usual), injured?
12. Nuno and Paratici are to blame for the choosing Dane over Troy. As the former is nowhere close to being ready for these types of games. Troy may not being pulling up trees, but he is further along physically than Dane. Choice there was tough, as they want Troy to get minutes. But given our inability to bring in more attacking talent at the end of the Window, we are now seeing our chickens coming home to roost.

Lastly, bringing Royal on, was more to do with working on his fitness. Could Markandy come on instead? I don't know. Maybe Nuno felt like with all of our attackers getting wiped out, maybe he'll need the kid this weekend. But it's not exactly a decision that points to a pattern of poor decision making and thinking defense first. Fuck it. I actually would have played a reserve team today, if I was coaching. Given the fragility of the squad, in terms of defense and attack missing players, I'd rather throw the white towel in on this one game, and then go for it in the remaining five games. Instead, he tried to go strong, and boy did it backfire spectacularly. Sunday is going to be bad. Very bad. No Stevie, Sonny, Moura. Only fit attacking players left are Kane and Gil. But of course, if we lose that game, many will not consider context. Just like the Palace game. As they've set out their stall and simply will not give the coach, his approach, his style a chance for more than 4 games.

We have won 3, and lost 1 in the PL after 4 games. The one we did lose was a perfect storm of shit. And already, there is a very vocal set of supporters who want him sacked ASAP.

I really just don't get it. I don't. But, I acknowledge how those on the other side of the fence feel. I get they are frustrated and annoyed. I get that they expect far more than what we are receiving. I get that they have a vision in their mind of what we should be, with the players we have, but that vision isn't coming to fruition. They're fed up and angry. Just like last year. I am just surprised that we are in mid-September and just how vexed some are, and even more taken aback by those who want him to be sacked immediately. Sheesh, it actually stresses me out when i read through this thread. Hence, I will do the right thing, and try to keep my distance.

Love you all. But, can't do another Jose thread.

Great post....I dont usually read long posts in full and tend to skeem over them. Loved reading it and agree on your points. Yeah i stay out of the Winks, Dele and Dier threads for similar reasons.

 

[cwy21]

The thing is if Poch cant do well with that PSG squad, and im talking CL here, then what does that say about Poch? Then again PSG is a fucking circus.

Everyone is loving Tuchel and he couldn't get it done either. PSG is going to play Bayern or Chelsea or Man City in the QF and will have 3 or 4 players who don't defend and they'll go out 6-4 on aggregate.

It's happened to every great manager who's tried for the last decade almost.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Wolves lost Jimenez and Jota last season. Before that they played some great stuff. It's a myth that he didn't play attacking football with Wolves.

A lot of the Wolves fans moaned about the style of football under Nuno… just sayin. Of course they loved him for the job he did but you won’t find many of them saying they enjoyed the style of play.

Some more quotes from their fans about the style of play:
“It wasn't just confused though was it? if you told me the team were sent out with no instruction apart from 'don't lose possession at all' I would believe you, the lack of any attacking ambition was apparent

“It'll be interesting to see what Nuno does in terms of formation.

Will he go 3 ATB, will he be as pragmatic as he was here, will Kane stay..”

Nuno to leave Wolves

People overstate how good we were to watch in the first place, without a doubt. We had moments but we were rarely ever dominant in terms of possession, we tended to sit off in the Premier League always. We never ever batter teams. All of these games were under Nuno in the Premier League...

www.wolvesforum.co.uk

 

[JCRD]

Everyone is loving Tuchel and he couldn't get it done either. PSG is going to play Bayern or Chelsea or Man City in the QF and will have 3 or 4 players who don't defend and they'll go out 6-4 on aggregate.

It's happened to every great manager who's tried for the last decade almost.

They didn't have Messi though and one or two others eg donnaruma and hakimi.

I agree though that it is an immense challenge given the circus they are.

 

[yankspurs]

Ive said many times and I truly believe it, that levy is just waiting on Poch to finish up at psg. I think he really regrets backing the senior players over him and took what he brought to the club for granted . Don't think it will work out too great at PSG, not the kinda club you can impose yourself on.

Nuno won't be here too long

Daddy’s coming home for Christmas. Just hope he can work with Fabio because as good as he is a manager, he’s almost as bad with transfers.

 

[cookiemonster]

Levy is at fault too, make no mistake about it, he still controls the final decisions

The little goblin went along with it probably because it's cheap

 

[Pochemon94]

The thing that is truly worrying me is that everything we said about Mourinho when he started here is being repeated in terms of waiting for the defense to be solved and then we will play attacking football and so on. I think it is, what it is and we are just trying to steady the ship until another manager comes along.

 

[Clive Wilson]

This is the worst thread I've ever read on this forum. Utterly disgraceful given a) our good results b) the time Nuno has had so far c) the injuries and absences

Utterly, utterly pathetic

Last time I open this thread