Had it coming..... My summary!

[adamthfc]

4-4-2 would of likely worked with Bale and Lennon both playing and 'staying' on the wings.

VDV, Sandro, Modric were clearly unfit and Walker was playing with a injury (prior to kick off and aggravated early in the 2nd half).

Where was Livermore? was Lennon unfit too ...

The squad and team selection were beyond bizarre, not the tactics.

I would be tempted to shake things up against Utd and play:

Friedel

Rose (don't rate him but Ekotto keeps reiterating how he only plays for the money, this clearly showed today and not for the 1st time)
Dawson
Kaboul
Walker

Livermore
Modric
Sandro

Bale
Adebayor
Lennon

Sandro doesn't deserve to be anywhere near te team after today. Needs to be eased back in. Shockingly off the pace. I'd also be tempted to
Bench bale for a couple of Games but maybe that's too drastic

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Sandro doesn't deserve to be anywhere near te team after today. Needs to be eased back in. Shockingly off the pace. I'd also be tempted to
Bench bale for a couple of Games but maybe that's too drastic

How about, play 'long ball' Dawson, go 4-3-3, Livermore, Modric, Sandro (no one else lol) and get Dawson to 'hoof' the ball to Adebayor, Saha and Defoe?

 

[StartingPrice]

I understand this, of course you need motivators in the side to bark instructions and inspire others, I just get tired of this bizarrely English obsession in looking for that one 'hero' to single-handedly win a game of football rather than realise it's a team game, and failures like today are a result of poor team ethic all over the park, a result of poor tactical choices rather than expecting Luka Modric (not aimed at you) to suddenly become Roy Keane etc. We all saw what happened to Scott Parker when he tried to do just that, he got idiotically sent off for not engaging his brain before he acted and now we already have a set back in the United game.

Or maybe Scotty is so tired of covering other players shifts he needed a rest next week?

When you put it like this...I did just kinda think it was aimed at me because it immediately followed my post agreeing with JH that Modric isn't the typeof player to pull a team up by the bootstraps :grin:

The funny think is, I watched the CC final, and was berating the Cult of Gerard because his primary suit seems to be to run around like a lunatic and toe-point shots that clear the stand but occasionally go in :grin:

 

[adamthfc]

How about, play 'long ball' Dawson, go 4-3-3, Livermore, Modric, Sandro (no one else lol) and get Dawson to 'hoof' the ball to Adebayor, Saha and Defoe?

Im depressed

 

[ShelfSide18]

When you put it like this...I did just kinda think it was aimed at me because it immediately followed my post agreeing with JH that Modric isn't the typeof player to pull a team up by the bootstraps :grin:

The funny think is, I watched the CC final, and was berating the Cult of Gerard because his primary suit seems to be to run around like a lunatic and toe-point shots that clear the stand but occasionally go in :grin:

I saw that too, when it was 1-1 late on I told my dad to watch out for Gerrard going into 'Fifa Hero' mode and take an all matter of potshots from range, he didn't disappoint. It's these tactically bereft players like Gerrard that do my head in, running around like a headless chicken, s'why managers like Benitez never trusted him in CM. That's the point I was trying to make.

It's why I like players like Modric, they're aware of the game around them, they understand the game better and just because they don't run around like headless chickens doesn't mean they lack passion or the guts for a fight or *insert next crass English cliche here*.

 

[StartingPrice]

I saw that too, when it was 1-1 late on I told my dad to watch out for Gerrard going into 'Fifa Hero' mode and take an all matter of potshots from range, he didn't disappoint. It's these tactically bereft players like Gerrard that do my head in, running around like a headless chicken, s'why managers like Benitez never trusted him in CM. That's the point I was trying to make.

It's why I like players like Modric, they're aware of the game around them, they understand the game better and just because they don't run around like headless chickens doesn't mean they lack passion or the guts for a fight or *insert next crass English cliche here*.

Obviously we were at cross purposes.
My point was that Modric got kicked all over the park last season, with zero protection form the refs, and, often, zero penalising of the offending thugs. So, it is kinda understandable, if this is goin' on and everyone else is shirking, that he isn't going to turn into Roy Keane. Sometimes, despite his amazing ability to ride a tackle, he just has to get the fook out of it.

The Gerard thang was hilarious - it's like there are bubbles of differentiated time, floating up from previous strata of existence,and every-so-often he pops up from the 1920s :grin:

Anyway, misunderstanding...all goode...aaawwwwwww :grin:

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I really detest the whole 'we need someone to take the game by the scruff of the neck' etc mentality, that shit doesn't exist in reality it's just a way of justifying Steven Gerrard running around like a headless chicken and banging 70 yard passes around and occasionally scoring a long range goal. It's a team game and Modric has been our best team player in recent years, without him we lack a heartbeat and one of the best brains int he Premiership. Just because he doesn't go steaming around in a manic Steven Gerrard fashion doesn't mean he doesn't care or whatnot or he doesn't have a heart.

We had it coming today because we defended like dickheads after we got a fortuitous 2-0 lead before half time, and came out in the second half without any coherent game plan, and continued defending like dickheads.

The heck do you mean, ShelfSide18? I am not saying he has to run around like a rabid dog. I think he is lazy and chickenshit. People say he dictates the pace of the game for us but how often does he slow the pace of the game when it needs to be done? When we are struggling to put a foot on the ball away from home, does he calm us down?

I have seen this guy literally jump out of the way of shots and stand about with his hands on his hips when we lose the ball. Where's the discipline with him?

 

[ShelfSide18]

The heck do you mean, ShelfSide18? I am not saying he has to run around like a rabid dog. I think he is lazy and chickenshit. People say he dictates the pace of the game for us but how often does he slow the pace of the game when it needs to be done? When we are struggling to put a foot on the ball away from home, does he calm us down?

I have seen this guy literally jump out of the way of shots and stand about with his hands on his hips when we lose the ball. Where's the discipline with him?

There was an element of cross purposes here as SP discovered, I just saw my chance to get something particular off my chest. Think I jumped the gun though.

I think Modric away from home suffers more from how he is used tactically, Norwich away he was at his imperious best when he was in a 3. He can be lazy - I don't see this as much as you appear too, although up against Bale anyone looks pretty hard working - but ultimately I think that reflects back to the management. Creative types as a rule need more coercing to put a shift in and I think with a manager and coaching staff who don't accept that shit then Luka would be just fine. I do see Modric work his little socks off on plenty of occasions too though, just a Mourinho type would get that little bit extra, that extra bit that makes champions not 3rd placed sides.

I find your Modric stance curious JH, but s'all about opinions.

BTW that app you recommended is fucking great.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

There was an element of cross purposes here as SP discovered, I just saw my chance to get something particular off my chest. Think I jumped the gun though.

I think Modric away from home suffers more from how he is used tactically, Norwich away he was at his imperious best when he was in a 3. He can be lazy - I don't see this as much as you appear too, although up against Bale anyone looks pretty hard working - but ultimately I think that reflects back to the management. Creative types as a rule need more coercing to put a shift in and I think with a manager and coaching staff who don't accept that shit then Luka would be just fine. I do see Modric work his little socks off on plenty of occasions too though, just a Mourinho type would get that little bit extra, that extra bit that makes champions not 3rd placed sides.

I find your Modric stance curious JH, but s'all about opinions.

BTW that app you recommended is fucking great.

I've just been looking at the goals again on MOTD, ShelfSide18, and there is one moment which sums Modric up for me. Arsenal's second goal. Song strolls past him in the middle of the park and Modric more or less walks after him.

And on the subject of bootstraps, wasn't RVP surely the man who inspired Arsenal's win today?

He'd be better in a 3-no doubt about it-but even in a 3, I've found him to be lazy.

 

[alfiespurs]

We should have played 5 in midfield, simple. Lennon should have started.

A point would have killed them.

We got it wrong and got punished. Simple as that.

:clap::clap: Agreed, I have never seen us so so pathetic in the midfield. Well time to move on ......

 

[ShelfSide18]

I've just been looking at the goals again on MOTD, ShelfSide18, and there is one moment which sums Modric up for me. Arsenal's second goal. Song strolls past him in the middle of the park and Modric more or less walks after him.

And on the subject of bootstraps, wasn't RVP surely the man who inspired Arsenal's win today?

He'd be better in a 3-no doubt about it-but even in a 3, I've found him to be lazy.

I've not got the heart to watch it over again just now JH. Fuck that.

Do you not think a coach who drills players to within an inch of their lives would get that extra out of Luka? I think he's a special player, almost unique in my mind, there aren't many others of his ilk around. I have far more issues with Bale swanning around the gaff like he's got a 10 year hold on the Ballon D'or.

In a 3 I think he is the perfect modern playmaker, alongside a holder and a box to boxer I think it's the near perfect balance. That Norwich game was the perfect example, think we should be brave enough to put that down on the top teams rather than the feeble, reactive stuff of today. I do understand Redknapp's selection today, it was logical in a way if you look at Arsenal's weaknesses but we are good enough to go out and bow to pretty much no-one.

 

[Mr Pink]

I've not got the heart to watch it over again just now JH. Fuck that.

Do you not think a coach who drills players to within an inch of their lives would get that extra out of Luka? I think he's a special player, almost unique in my mind, there aren't many others of his ilk around. I have far more issues with Bale swanning around the gaff like he's got a 10 year hold on the Ballon D'or.

In a 3 I think he is the perfect modern playmaker, alongside a holder and a box to boxer I think it's the near perfect balance. That Norwich game was the perfect example, think we should be brave enough to put that down on the top teams rather than the feeble, reactive stuff of today. I do understand Redknapp's selection today, it was logical in a way if you look at Arsenal's weaknesses but we are good enough to go out and bow to pretty much no-one.

I agree with all that...exactly me feelings to.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I've not got the heart to watch it over again just now JH. Fuck that.

Do you not think a coach who drills players to within an inch of their lives would get that extra out of Luka? I think he's a special player, almost unique in my mind, there aren't many others of his ilk around. I have far more issues with Bale swanning around the gaff like he's got a 10 year hold on the Ballon D'or.

In a 3 I think he is the perfect modern playmaker, alongside a holder and a box to boxer I think it's the near perfect balance. That Norwich game was the perfect example, think we should be brave enough to put that down on the top teams rather than the feeble, reactive stuff of today. I do understand Redknapp's selection today, it was logical in a way if you look at Arsenal's weaknesses but we are good enough to go out and bow to pretty much no-one.

You know I'm not a big fan of his, ShelfSide18. I don't think he's got character. I cannot really answer your question but I don't think a top drawer coach would allow him to fanny about in the way that he does. Whether he would work harder or just end up being dropped at a club like Utd or Chelsea-I cannot decide. And my question remains-can Modric genuinely slow the tempo of a game when it needs slowing? Against good opposition? Away from home?

Even though Bale is diving and shirking to beat the band and it drives me mad, at the same time I am in awe of him.

I have found it increasingly hard to criticise Harry this season but what I will say is that I believe we rely too much on improvisation and I don't like it. I don't know that we have a clear idea of how we want to play. We have seen every sort of formation this season and I have to ask the question whether it leaves players confused as to what their role is.

 

[ShelfSide18]

You know I'm not a big fan of his, ShelfSide18. I don't think he's got character. I cannot really answer your question but I don't think a top drawer coach would allow him to fanny about in the way that he does. Whether he would work harder or just end up being dropped at a club like Utd or Chelsea-I cannot decide. And my question remains-can Modric genuinely slow the tempo of a game when it needs slowing? Against good opposition? Away from home?

Even though Bale is diving and shirking to beat the band and it drives me mad, at the same time I am in awe of him.

I have found it increasingly hard to criticise Harry this season but what I will say is that I believe we rely too much on improvisation and I don't like it. I don't know that we have a clear idea of how we want to play. We have seen every sort of formation this season and I have to ask the question whether it leaves players confused as to what their role is.

Naturally I disagree, but s'all opinions and all that.

I think he'd flourish if he went to Man Utd and think Chelsea and AVB wanted him to replace Lampard in their Cm3, I think he'd have made a big difference to Chelsea this season - some guile in the middle 3, someone to tick them over. Their Cm has looked so stodgy to me this season. There will be lots of eyes on Modric this summer, from Europe's top clubs and if he does leave then I think he'll fit perfectly in with Europe's finest.

Yes I do think he can slow the tempo of a game, I think he has plenty times. This season we've seen out comfortable last half hours when we've had a lead with Modric on the ball taking the intensity out of the game - Norwich for one Last season when he was half fit he came on in the San Siro and did this superbly well imo (there's a theme here... as part of a middle 3). In a Cm2 he can't play superman, although I think it's testament to his ability that he has held himself in a Cm2 many times, somehow we didn't completely disintegrate when him and Huddlestone were paired together!

Don't get me wrong, Bale is incredible at times but I think he is believing the hype now and somethings he does infuriate me, it's like he thinks he has to make something happen every time he gets the ball and of course needs a kick up the arse to work a lot harder. But the payoff this season has been worth it, but there needn't be a trade off between productivity and diligence. Bale is a microcosm of Spurs for me.

I have been impressed with Redknapp on many, many occasions this season - it still annoys me that his HT switch at Stoke yielded no points because it was inspired, and have been interested in him tentatively looking at the 3 man defence, I think that variety is excellent. I think he is naturally conservative at heart, like today he went to the tried and trusted 4-4-2 counter attack mode. I think the more he trusts in the stuff that may be outside his usual comfort zone that have paid off this season then we can go into games like today and show the rest that we are a top side that fear no one.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Naturally I disagree, but s'all opinions and all that.

I think he'd flourish if he went to Man Utd and think Chelsea and AVB wanted him to replace Lampard in their Cm3, I think he'd have made a big difference to Chelsea this season - some guile in the middle 3, someone to tick them over. Their Cm has looked so stodgy to me this season. There will be lots of eyes on Modric this summer, from Europe's top clubs and if he does leave then I think he'll fit perfectly in with Europe's finest.

Yes I do think he can slow the tempo of a game, I think he has plenty times. This season we've seen out comfortable last half hours when we've had a lead with Modric on the ball taking the intensity out of the game - Norwich for one Last season when he was half fit he came on in the San Siro and did this superbly well imo (there's a theme here... as part of a middle 3). In a Cm2 he can't play superman, although I think it's testament to his ability that he has held himself in a Cm2 many times, somehow we didn't completely disintegrate when him and Huddlestone were paired together!

Don't get me wrong, Bale is incredible at times but I think he is believing the hype now and somethings he does infuriate me, it's like he thinks he has to make something happen every time he gets the ball and of course needs a kick up the arse to work a lot harder. But the payoff this season has been worth it, but there needn't be a trade off between productivity and diligence. Bale is a microcosm of Spurs for me.

I have been impressed with Redknapp on many, many occasions this season - it still annoys me that his HT switch at Stoke yielded no points because it was inspired, and have been interested in him tentatively looking at the 3 man defence, I think that variety is excellent. I think he is naturally conservative at heart, like today he went to the tried and trusted 4-4-2 counter attack mode. I think the more he trusts in the stuff that may be outside his usual comfort zone that have paid off this season then we can go into games like today and show the rest that we are a top side that fear no one.

Against decent opposition (and against any sort of opposition away from home) I think he's a waste of time in a CM2. We were superb against Norwich but they were poor on the night and are a midtable outfit at best. My recollection of the Milan game is hazy. I remember he came on. I remember we were under the cosh and won with a late breakaway goal.

And that's a strange point about Bale because it was only recently that I read/heard that he doesn't always try to beat his man now, for example. It could have been in an interview with John Barnes?

Actually, here are the quotes. Maybe he's talking out of his arse...

"His game is not just about getting the ball and beating four players every time, you are not going to be able to do that,” the ex-England international observed.

“He seems to be able to cope with that because there are times when he gets it and lays it off first-time.

“The right decision is when to pass, when to dribble, when to run. What happened a lot - and it happened with me at times and maybe with him earlier in his career - when he got the ball, he probably felt he had to do something special.

“What's happening now is that he's making the right decisions. When there are two men on him, there is a spare man somewhere, and if you move the ball quickly you can find that spare man.

“He's now making those decisions. Maybe he won't be as eye-catching in every game in terms of beating four players, but he's still contributing to the team in helping them be successful.”

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...re-getting-the-best-out-of-world-class-gareth

 

[not_tenth-again]

We have seen every sort of formation this season and I have to ask the question whether it leaves players confused as to what their role is.

Harry's job that one. In my mind this result has been coming for a while. We started believing the hype and got what was coming to us. Harry needs to clear his head and take control of the team, pick players in their position and only when fully fit.

IMO - Bale and Lennon must start and play the full game in their respective positions on the wings.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Harry's job that one. In my mind this result has been coming for a while. We started believing the hype and got what was coming to us. Harry needs to clear his head and take control of the team, pick players in their position and only when fully fit.

IMO - Bale and Lennon must start and play the full game in their respective positions on the wings.

If we play Bale and Lennon, it won't leave us less open. Gary Neville's my favourite pundit these days and he kept saying that we play our best football with those two in the side but we've played some awful shite as well and defended like fairies for good measure.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Harry's massive mistake was thinking he could play the same side that beat Newcastle at home, away to our fiercest 'wounded' rival playing in front of their 60,000 fans daring them to fuck up.
Why azza wasn't involved is one of the mysteries i can't understand and today for me was an insight of what would happen to 'Harrys England' when his tactical knowledge would be put to the test against the worlds top teams and coaches, i think he is a master at putting teams together and motivating them, but today he proved he is no master tactition.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Harry's massive mistake was thinking he could play the same side that beat Newcastle at home, away to our fiercest 'wounded' rival playing in front of their 60,000 fans daring them to fuck up.
Why azza wasn't involved is one of the mysteries i can't understand and today for me was an insight of what would happen to 'Harrys England' when his tactical knowledge would be put to the test against the worlds top teams and coaches, i think he is a master at putting teams together and motivating them, but today he proved he is no master tactition.

Well honestly I think it could have done. In fact at 2-0 up we weren't playing that well but we still had another couple of golden opportunities when the ball broke to Walker and he should have it the target and when Bale should have played in Ade on the break. We could have been 3 or even 4 up and the players we had were still able to expose Arsenal's defence which hadn't played together a whole lot. But we didn't go for the jugular, in fact we didn't even maintain any attacking intent and instead invited them to play.

That is why we 'had it coming' because it isn't the first time we've done that this season. We were punished for doing it yesterday because we basically handed a hungry and desperate Arsenal side the initiative. I honestly think if we had gone for it with the same team, especially in the position we were in they wouldn't have been able to push so far forward and we would have stretched their defence. It wasn't such a terrible team to pick especially given that Sandro and VDV looked less than half fit and I assume Lennon wasn't either.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Well honestly I think it could have done. In fact at 2-0 up we weren't playing that well but we still had another couple of golden opportunities when the ball broke to Walker and he should have it the target and when Bale should have played in Ade on the break. We could have been 3 or even 4 up and the players we had were still able to expose Arsenal's defence which hadn't played together a whole lot. But we didn't go for the jugular, in fact we didn't even maintain any attacking intent and instead invited them to play.

That is why we 'had it coming' because it isn't the first time we've done that this season. We were punished for doing it yesterday because we basically handed a hungry and desperate Arsenal side the initiative. I honestly think if we had gone for it with the same team, especially in the position we were in they wouldn't have been able to push so far forward and we would have stretched their defence. It wasn't such a terrible team to pick especially given that Sandro and VDV looked less than half fit and I assume Lennon wasn't either.

We had a couple of chances,but they were playing round and through us at will,and had many more chances than us in this period. i have never been so uncomfortable being 2 up in my life.
It was suicide, everyone spurs fan who watched it with me were amazed Harry decided to start with Niko against a goon midfield outnumbering us, who in their right mind would think Niko is the type of player that will put in a shift or indeed be quick enough to counter attack.
The defeat wasn't just down to that though, i think they wanted it more, had so much more to lose....and it showed i'm afraid.