Harry's press conference

[Spurger King]

He's just getting his excuses in early. If we finish 5th he'll come out with his classic line from last year "what do the fans expect...5th is as good as its gonna get."

Stoof I think there is a world of difference between 'expecting' a top 4 spot, and recognising that we have one of the top 4 squads in the country.

I was also brought up in the 90s so I'm fully aware of how grateful we should be to have a team as talented as we have. Does that mean we should permanently have low expectations? We're definitely not punching above our weight, and for Harry to say so is just plain wrong. He's trying to soften the blow if we fuck this up.

We have a better team than Arsenal, and a better team than Liverpool. Only United, City and Chelsea have squads of the same or better quality as ours. If we can't finish in the top 4 we've underachieved.

I'll always love Harry for what he's done for the club, but he doesn't half come out with some proper bullshit. A few months ago he thought we could win the league..now we're punching above our weight?

Deja vu. Let's just hope this season ends better than the last one did.

 

[mattyspurs]

Great points you raise SK.

To be fair, we ridicule Liverpool for living on past glories and not excepting where they are now in the pecking order, surely that works for us in reverse, we were god awful shit in the '90s, early '00s. Lets just except that we are no longer living in the past and we are now good, damn good, and should be competing for a top 4 or higher place.

Harrys excuses won't work this year for me, becuase we should be where we are, but it's all irrelevant as we will finish where we are.

 

[Berglad]

On paper with Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool's problems and Manchester United's performances this season, we should have been fighting with Man City for the title.

Top four wouldn't really be underachieving but in no way is it overachieving - our squad *should* be doing a little bit better than it is.

Manchester United are overachieving, Chelsea are underachieving, Arsenal, on balance, are probably slightly overachieving thanks to Van Persie's insane form.

 

[eddiev14]

Agreed.

I went to watch us play Sheffield Wedensday under Gross (1998).

It was at the Lane. We lost 3 - 0. Ramon Vega had to be taken off at half time. The crowd sang, 'We want Sugar out....'

Paolo Di Canio went on record as saying that Sheffield Wednesday were poor, so to lose 3 - 0 at home to them meant we must have been really, really bad.

I was at that game too! I remember it was early season and I was looking forward to seeing our exciting new continental full back Paolo Tramezzani. It was after that game when I realised that not all continental players with cool sounding names are good at football.

Ramon Vega... My God, I remember that!!! I vividly remember a moment in the game when he tripped on the ball, after which pretty much the whole stadium started to boo him. Those really were dark, dark times.

Some people on here obviously never experienced that era because, if they did, there would have been a lot more perspective over the course of the past few weeks.

I'm not saying we shouldn't want the team to do well, but some people at least need to learn how to take it on the chin when we go through a sticky patch.

 

[Kingstheman]

I was at that game too! I remember it was early season and I was looking forward to seeing our exciting new continental full back Paolo Tramezzani. It was after that game when I realised that not all continental players with cool sounding names are good at football.

Ramon Vega... My God, I remember that!!! I vividly remember a moment in the game when he tripped on the ball, leading to pretty much the whole stadium to start booing him. Those really were dark, dark times.

Some people on here obviously never experienced that era because, if they did, there would have been a lot more perspective over the course of the past few weeks.

I'm not saying we shouldn't want the team to do well, but some people at least need to learn how to take it on the chin when we go through a sticky patch.

Yes.

We all want Tottenham to do well, but we need more robust character.

That game and the 3 - 4 against Man City, when they were down to 10 men, had their strikers out and were in bad form...

Winners don't turn on themselves and start looking to blame.

 

[dontcallme]

I felt that while we were solidly 3rd we were punching above our weight.

To be competing with Chelsea and Arsenal in the state they are in right now is our level. Finishing above one of them is not a miracle or an over-achievement same as finishing 5th wouldn't be an underachievement.

After the start we've had and the fixtures we have remaining I'd be disappointed with a 5th place finish.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think it's a reflection of how well we've done that fans think that we're not overchieving.

Maybe I won't ever be able to shake growing up in the 1990s.

I'm genuinely so thankful for 40 points every season, that anything else is still a bonus!

We've really never had it so good. Especially in the last 20 years. That's why I get annoyed with fans at the moment, with the sense of entitlement that's built up from absolutely fucking nowhere.

We are overachieving in my eyes. Not one of you expected us to have a run like this when the transfer window slammed shut. How is that not overachieving?

Isn't it more a reflection of how good we all know this team is inn terms of personnel ? I mean, isn't that one of the reasons we have done so well ?

As for the rest:


"I have no problem with the performances". What not even Arsenal ? Because I've got a huge problem with it, and the performance of players utilised badly against Everton.

And the 2 points from ten years thing. The point is, again, we now have a team that is much better than the last ten years, so it should be able to improve on those results.

And they have been spread out. In 7 games against the 4 sides this season around us, we’ve won one, drawn one and lost 5.

Hardly surprising he hasn’t had a side that had more possession than ManU considering he’s managed Portsmouth, Southampton and West Ham is it ? And having not been a coach previously noted for playing ball domination football, again, hardly surprising.

The last line is the usual get my excuse in early bullshit. Fuck how good the squad is, if we finish top 4 I’m a genius, if we don’t it’s because of the squad not me.

 

[eddiev14]

Yes.

We all want Tottenham to do well, but we need more robust character.

That game and the 3 - 4 against Man City, when they were down to 10 men, had their strikers out and were in bad form...

Winners don't turn on themselves and start looking to blame.

I was at that one too

Ironically the fans throwing their toys out after a few bad results are only doing so because of an in-built insecurity that Spurs will always snatch failiure from the jaws of glory.

Their irate outbursts are being caused by exactly the same insecurity that makes others Spurs just enjoy the games because they're not expecting us to do anything. We're Spurs, after all.

Man, a psychiatrist would have a field day with us lot! The 1990s have seriously messed us all up! :grin:

 

[Spurger King]

Man, a psychiatrist would have a field day with us lot! The 1990s have seriously messed us all up! :grin:

The official term is 'Dozzell syndrome'.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I don't think finishing below 4th can be seen as anything but failure this season considering how far we were with 13 games to go. Frankly, finishing below 3rd (likely now I know) will be a failure in my eyes. That doesn't mean I'll want Harry sacked, but his stock will certainly have fallen a little from where it was mid season. Last season finishing 5th was not a disaster, it was always going to be difficult to follow up the previous season with City spending even more money and both Chelsea and Arsenal not yet hitting the downturn they're now in. This season, however, 4th will be disappointing but acceptable, 5th will be an outright failure, and that's regardless of whether we manage to win the FA cup of not.

Like I said, I won't turn on Harry for it, but I'll certainly expect him to take stock of his own failings just as much as that of the individual players (assuming he stays as manager for next season).

And I grew up in the 90s as well. Started going regularly when we signed Klinsmann and started as a full season ticket holding in 97/98. I know the feeling of fearing relegation, of watching disgustingly poor football, of having to put up with Dozzell, Leonhardsen, Perry and pinning hopes on loan signing Andy Booth.

 

[Grey Fox]

I think it's a reflection of how well we've done that fans think that we're not overchieving.

Maybe I won't ever be able to shake growing up in the 1990s.

I'm genuinely so thankful for 40 points every season, that anything else is still a bonus!

We've really never had it so good. Especially in the last 20 years. That's why I get annoyed with fans at the moment, with the sense of entitlement that's built up from absolutely fucking nowhere.

We are overachieving in my eyes. Not one of you expected us to have a run like this when the transfer window slammed shut. How is that not overachieving?

You should have been around in the late 70's when were really shit. We are not over achieving the last few games have levelled things out a bit and as Harry says if those results were spread out over the season people wouldn't be making the same idiotic statements on here full of gloom and doom.

Having said that, Harry is covering his arse and trying to save his CV, he can't say in September we have one of the strongest squads in the prem, "triffic bunch of lads" and then say we are punching above our weight. Harry that is bollocks.

As often quoted, the league never lies you deserve to be where ever you end up. So stop talking bollocks and get some training done especially on dead ball situations.

 

[eddiebailey]

When considering whether we are ‘overachieving’ perhaps we should be realistic about our squad:

Friedel – 40 year old freebie
Walker – 20 year old in his first full season in the Premiership
Assou-Ekottu – most of us had written him off before Harry gave him a chance
Kaboul – Spurs cast-off rehabilitated by Harry at Portsmouth; signed cheapish in fire sale
King – has one working leg
Lennon – persistent underachiever
Parker – signed cheap from relegated club because no-one else in the Premiership wanted him
Modric – began the season in an almighty sulk
Bale – teenage Jonah given another chance by Harry, doing great, but needs mollycoddling
VdV – Real Madrid reject who came to Spurs because he wanted to be a big fish in a small pond
Adebayor – player we can’t afford on loan at Spurs after burning bridges elsewhere
Cudicini – freebie; reject Chelsea second choice keeper, recently in career threatening accident
Rose – newly converted fullback; couldn’t cut it as a winger in the Championship
Dawson – usually injured
Gallas – freebie, old, injury prone
Nelsen – freebie, old
Sandro – burst on scene last season, but still young and inexperienced
Livermore – most of us assumed he would be released after repeatedly flopping in Championship
Krancjar – bargain basement signing
Saha – freebie, old, injury prone
Defoe – once and future Spurs reject

Without spending a great deal of money Harry has assembled a squad of cast-offs, kids and misfits, brought out the best in them, and forged them into a squad capable of challenging for the Premiership. That’s not bad going I think.

 

[faymantaray]

The sooner we instil a mentality throughout the club that top 4 every year is an absolute fucking minimum, the sooner we will start challenging for the title year in year out.

 

[Stoof]

My point was, once we knew what our squad was going to be (so this was following the losses against both Manchester teams at the beginning of the season).

No-one not even the most optimistic of Spurs fans - even knowing the personnel involved - predicted or thought that we would be in the position we are now.

We're potentially getting caught up in semantics. At the beginning of the season my expectations were to be challenging for a top 4 place, in and around the 5th place mark.

They were fairly lofty considering the mood on this messageboard.

The point I'm obviously struggling to get across is that, given those considerations, given those initial viewpoints, to find ourselves where we are now is above and beyond those expectations.

Purely by simple definition of words, we have over-achieved. If our expections were X, and the reality is X+1 (better), that's just simply correct!!

 

[faymantaray]

We still have to ride the wave no?

 

[sloth]

If you look at our squad, then we're clearly not over-achieving. We have no god-given right for top four, but our squad is the equal or better than three of the other five teams vying for CL.

But there's no point getting our knickers in a twist over Harry's comments. He's just got that defensive kind of personality which makes him say dumb things when he's under pressure.

Personally I hate it, and it's one of the reasons why I'll never warm to Harry as a person, even if I learned a measure of respect for his qualities as a manager. But it's just the way he is and we all have to accept it.

 

[bubble07]

Are you saying we're overachieving simply because we used to be shit?

At the moment, our first 11 is stronger than Arsenal's and debatably stronger than Chelsea's, put them side by side and tell me how many of the other two's first 11's you'd take in preference to ours.

Just because we suffered a long time with bad squads doesn't mean we shouldn't expect a certain level of achievement when we have a good one and I maintain that two years without champions league football with the squad of players we have wouldn't be an overachievement.

yep i agree with you

 

[spurious1]

Based on what we have spent in transfers and salaries, it would (will ?) be a massive achievement to finish ahead of Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. The numbers have been published before, they are available on the forum somewhere. I think there was even another team paying more than us in salaries (Aston Villa or something like that), at least as of a couple of years ago.

Odd how a few months of glory has enabled so many to forget all those long cold years of mediocrity...to think anyone who has been following us imagines we should be 3rd by manifest destiny has a very contracted view of history.

If we forget the order of the results, to be where we are now, still in 3rd and in the FA cup, would have been a dream for any of us just a few months ago...

A couple of good results in the next two games and we will feel better.

 

[Spurger King]

My point was, once we knew what our squad was going to be (so this was following the losses against both Manchester teams at the beginning of the season).

No-one not even the most optimistic of Spurs fans - even knowing the personnel involved - predicted or thought that we would be in the position we are now.

We're potentially getting caught up in semantics. At the beginning of the season my expectations were to be challenging for a top 4 place, in and around the 5th place mark.

They were fairly lofty considering the mood on this messageboard.

The point I'm obviously struggling to get across is that, given those considerations, given those initial viewpoints, to find ourselves where we are now is above and beyond those expectations.

Purely by simple definition of words, we have over-achieved. If our expections were X, and the reality is X+1 (better), that's just simply correct!!

Depends though. At the beginning of the season I would have considered our current position to be overachieving in the sense that I didn't think we'd achieve it with the players we had at that point. However ten games in to the season I wouldn't have considered our current position to be a surprise at all.

25 games into the season I'd probably be disappointed to see us only 1 point ahead of 4th, and no longer challenging for the title.

At this moment in time we're not overachieving. It's obvious that Harry is talking about the current team, rather than the potential we had at the beginning of the season, so for him to say today we're currently overachieving is plain wrong.

 

[sloth]

Fair enough, not a single pundit had us down to finish in the top 5, let alone top 4.

Why shouldn't he take the credit?

But he's right?

My point was, once we knew what our squad was going to be (so this was following the losses against both Manchester teams at the beginning of the season).

No-one not even the most optimistic of Spurs fans - even knowing the personnel involved - predicted or thought that we would be in the position we are now.

We're potentially getting caught up in semantics. At the beginning of the season my expectations were to be challenging for a top 4 place, in and around the 5th place mark.

They were fairly lofty considering the mood on this messageboard.

The point I'm obviously struggling to get across is that, given those considerations, given those initial viewpoints, to find ourselves where we are now is above and beyond those expectations.

Purely by simple definition of words, we have over-achieved. If our expections were X, and the reality is X+1 (better), that's just simply correct!!

I had us down for third and bet as much in the office. I know I wasn't the only one either.

I do think there was a lot of knee-jerk bullshit going on amongst fans and pundits, I think a lot of people are like Dory the Fish when it comes to making predictions, you only really have to look at the last couple of results for any given team to guess what people will predict as their long-term outlook.