Harry's press conference

[Bus-Conductor]

My point was, once we knew what our squad was going to be (so this was following the losses against both Manchester teams at the beginning of the season).

No-one not even the most optimistic of Spurs fans - even knowing the personnel involved - predicted or thought that we would be in the position we are now.

We're potentially getting caught up in semantics. At the beginning of the season my expectations were to be challenging for a top 4 place, in and around the 5th place mark.

They were fairly lofty considering the mood on this messageboard.

The point I'm obviously struggling to get across is that, given those considerations, given those initial viewpoints, to find ourselves where we are now is above and beyond those expectations.

Purely by simple definition of words, we have over-achieved. If our expections were X, and the reality is X+1 (better), that's just simply correct!!

But that would only be true if we went back in time. Perspective alters with time and circumstances. We might be overachieving based on what you expected before we'd kicked a ball this season, but that's not the same as over achieving what the team is clearly capable of achieving based on the factors we know now.

What you are doing is making excuses based on the presumption that you are still at your initial knowledge point having not learnt that we are in fact better than your initial perspective told you.

 

[tototoner]

Via Ben Pearce on twitter



#thfc Redknapp: 'If we finish in the top four I think we've over-punched our weight - way over - but I think we will finish in the top four'


The last comment annoys me - Harry bigging himself up again to the detriment of the Club :evil:

agree, and that is not the mentality the club or players need right now

 

[Stoof]

Are you saying we're overachieving simply because we used to be shit?

No. In fact, not at all. Read it again.

I'm saying that I take pride in our achievements since Martin Jol took over which some have now taken for granted.

At the moment, our first 11 is stronger than Arsenal's and debatably stronger than Chelsea's, put them side by side and tell me how many of the other two's first 11's you'd take in preference to ours.

Well, not being funny, we don't play on paper. The only way to test two teams is to pit them against each other - and that fateful Sunday ago, we were routinely dismantled by an Arsenal team.

I think our place is extremely lofted by underperforming Arsenal and Chelsea teams that we aren't much stronger than, if it all. The Spurs goggles off for a second (something I'm always accused of on here), I think you've missed the point I'm making.

Just because we suffered a long time with bad squads doesn't mean we shouldn't expect a certain level of achievement when we have a good one and I maintain that two years without champions league football with the squad of players we have wouldn't be an overachievement.

No, but I I'm very much a tone man; in that the tone of some of these posts forget what has gone before. And that somehow there is a divine right to expect X. Maybe I have low expectations of everyone and everything generally - that's a personal flaw - but, hand on heart, I think we're doing a lot better than I ever thought we would. So that's the definition isn't it?

The amount some attach to what he says is strange. It's just press chatter, it's really meaningless. The players are so sheltered from it all anyway and I would bet an awful lot of money he's not saying "don't worry boys, 5th's alright" to the players.

Even if he was, they're all too thick to pick up subtleties and nuances that we over-analyse. :grin:

Just enjoy that we're not going down!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

When considering whether we are ‘overachieving’ perhaps we should be realistic about our squad:

Friedel – 40 year old freebie
Walker – 20 year old in his first full season in the Premiership
Assou-Ekottu – most of us had written him off before Harry gave him a chance
Kaboul – Spurs cast-off rehabilitated by Harry at Portsmouth; signed cheapish in fire sale
King – has one working leg
Lennon – persistent underachiever
Parker – signed cheap from relegated club because no-one else in the Premiership wanted him
Modric – began the season in an almighty sulk
Bale – teenage Jonah given another chance by Harry, doing great, but needs mollycoddling
VdV – Real Madrid reject who came to Spurs because he wanted to be a big fish in a small pond
Adebayor – player we can’t afford on loan at Spurs after burning bridges elsewhere
Cudicini – freebie; reject Chelsea second choice keeper, recently in career threatening accident
Rose – newly converted fullback; couldn’t cut it as a winger in the Championship
Dawson – usually injured
Gallas – freebie, old, injury prone
Nelsen – freebie, old
Sandro – burst on scene last season, but still young and inexperienced
Livermore – most of us assumed he would be released after repeatedly flopping in Championship
Krancjar – bargain basement signing
Saha – freebie, old, injury prone
Defoe – once and future Spurs reject

Without spending a great deal of money Harry has assembled a squad of cast-offs, kids and misfits, brought out the best in them, and forged them into a squad capable of challenging for the Premiership. That’s not bad going I think.

Let's play that with ManU:

De Gai - Shakey drop down in class from VDS
Jones - Young CB out out os position most weeks
Evans - the player Bobbins called worse than Dawson
Ferdinand - quality but way past best
Evra - see above
Valencia - Cheap buy from Wigan
Cleverly - Ho hum at best, didn't stand out at Wigan
Scholes - has been, way past his sell by date
Giggs - Too slow to play in his preferred position
Young - rejected by spurs 5 years ago as not worth 8m
Welbeck - Couldn't even make Sunderland's first team every week
Rooney - great player most weeks
Hernandez - one dimensional benchwarmer.

 

[Stoof]

But that would only be true if we went back in time. Perspective alters with time and circumstances. We might be overachieving based on what you expected before we'd kicked a ball this season, but that's not the same as over achieving what the team is clearly capable of achieving based on the factors we know now.

What you are doing is making excuses based on the presumption that you are still at your initial knowledge point having not learnt that we are in fact better than your initial perspective told you.

I actually don't agree with that at all.

And I didn't want to get bogged down with semantics, a) because it's not conducive to decent football banter and b) it's Friday and I'm a bit hungover.

So, in summary: :shake:.

 

[Bobbins]

Let's play that with ManU:

De Gai - Shakey drop down in class from VDS
Jones - Young CB out out os position most weeks
Evans - the player Bobbins called worse than Dawson
Ferdinand - quality but way past best
Evra - see above
Valencia - Cheap buy from Wigan
Cleverly - Ho hum at best, didn't stand out at Wigan
Scholes - has been, way past his sell by date
Giggs - Too slow to play in his preferred position
Young - rejected by spurs 5 years ago as not worth 8m
Welbeck - Couldn't even make Sunderland's first team every week
Rooney - great player most weeks
Hernandez - one dimensional benchwarmer.

And I was right!

 

[EastLondonYid]

Let's play that with ManU:

De Gai - Shakey drop down in class from VDS
Jones - Young CB out out os position most weeks
Evans - the player Bobbins called worse than Dawson
Ferdinand - quality but way past best
Evra - see above
Valencia - Cheap buy from Wigan
Cleverly - Ho hum at best, didn't stand out at Wigan
Scholes - has been, way past his sell by date
Giggs - Too slow to play in his preferred position
Young - rejected by spurs 5 years ago as not worth 8m
Welbeck - Couldn't even make Sunderland's first team every week
Rooney - great player most weeks
Hernandez - one dimensional benchwarmer.

Or Barca

Valdes....abit short, and rarely scores in a such an attacking team.
Abidal...
Puyol...models himself on Brian May,and plays like David May.
Pique...couldn't cut it against Stoke and Bolton
Alves...Keeps wasting free kicks
Xavi....bit boring always going sideways and playing silly simple passes.
Iniesta..losing his hair abit, and hides in the big games apart from WCfinal
Pedro.. doesn't cross it enough for messi to get more headers.
Fabregas..Barca have won fuck all since he joined.
Busquets..hides behind xavi and iniesta,
Messi..fails to shine at International level.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Let's play that with ManU:

De Gai - Shakey drop down in class from VDS
Jones - Young CB out out os position most weeks
Evans - the player Bobbins called worse than Dawson
Ferdinand - quality but way past best
Evra - see above
Valencia - Cheap buy from Wigan
Cleverly - Ho hum at best, didn't stand out at Wigan
Scholes - has been, way past his sell by date
Giggs - Too slow to play in his preferred position
Young - rejected by spurs 5 years ago as not worth 8m
Welbeck - Couldn't even make Sunderland's first team every week
Rooney - great player most weeks
Hernandez - one dimensional benchwarmer.

:lol:

£16m

 

[Spurs_Bear]

It's a gash comment from Harry, but as sloth said he is a very defensive person when people question him.

 

[Legacy]

Well, not being funny, we don't play on paper. The only way to test two teams is to pit them against each other - and that fateful Sunday ago, we were routinely dismantled by an Arsenal team.

Before that game, the vast majority of us were pleading for a five man midfield. Knowing full well that lining up 442 away from home in a derby game would be suicidal. We played 442 at home against Arsenal last season and were extremely fortunate to win after being outplayed by them for the majority of the game.

So getting routinely dismantled by an Arsenal was a punishment for Redknapp picking a ridiculously naive and tactically limp line up and formation.

Had we lined up with the extra man in midfield that day, you can bet your balls we wouldn't have been so ridiculously easy to run through. I can't say we would've won, but we sure as hell wouldn't have been so humiliated.

In fact, had Redknapp been wise enough to stick with the extra man in midfield in each of the last three games, I'd be quite sure we'd have picked up more points than we did and we wouldn't now have to worry about the prospect of finishing outside the Champion's League places.

 

[BillyWhizz]

I don't wish for it but I've always thought that when Harry left us it would be on negative terms, and nothing that has happened the past few weeks has done anything to make me think otherwise.

 

[eddiebailey]

Let's play that with ManU:

De Gai - Shakey drop down in class from VDS
Jones - Young CB out out os position most weeks
Evans - the player Bobbins called worse than Dawson
Ferdinand - quality but way past best
Evra - see above
Valencia - Cheap buy from Wigan
Cleverly - Ho hum at best, didn't stand out at Wigan
Scholes - has been, way past his sell by date
Giggs - Too slow to play in his preferred position
Young - rejected by spurs 5 years ago as not worth 8m
Welbeck - Couldn't even make Sunderland's first team every week
Rooney - great player most weeks
Hernandez - one dimensional benchwarmer.

And how much did that lot - and the rest of the United squad - Vidic, Carrick, Berbatov et al - cost?

My point about overachieving, which you have miissed totally missed, was not somuch about the percieved strengths and weaknesses of the players (though in some cases you seem to be strugling to find those for UNited players), it was about managing resources and getting the best of players whose careers had stalled or were on the slide.

Spurs have pissed plenty of money up the wall in the past, and some of our bad buys still fester in our reserves, but when you compare our current match day squad with those of United or Chelsea or Liverpool or God help us, City, it was assembled for comparative peanuts

 

[spursfan77]

I don't wish for it but I've always thought that when Harry left us it would be on negative terms, and nothing that has happened the past few weeks has done anything to make me think otherwise.

I agree. The same pattern is happening as last year. Drop in form around the same time in the season, lack of ability to break down teams/poor finishing, Redknapp blaming everyone else but himself for the result.

Many people wanted him gone in the summer and I can see it happening again if we finish fifth.

 

[EastLondonYid]

I agree. The same pattern is happening as last year. Drop in form around the same time in the season, lack of ability to break down teams/poor finishing, Redknapp blaming everyone else but himself for the result.

Many people wanted him gone in the summer and I can see it happening again if we finish fifth.

Mate let me let you into a little secret, Harry is off to be the next England manager if we finish 5th,4th,3rd,2nd or 1st. :wink:

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And how much did that lot - and the rest of the United squad - Vidic, Carrick, Berbatov et al - cost?

My point about overachieving, which you have miissed totally missed, was not somuch about the percieved strengths and weaknesses of the players (though in some cases you seem to be strugling to find those for UNited players), it was about managing resources and getting the best of players whose careers had stalled or were on the slide.

Spurs have pissed plenty of money up the wall in the past, and some of our bad buys still fester in our reserves, but when you compare our current match day squad with those of United or Chelsea or Liverpool or God help us, City, it was assembled for comparative peanuts

How much are the worth compared to our team ?


How much the squads were assembled for is relevant when assessing our ability to assemble a squad. But once that squad is assembled it must be judged on it's ability to achieve what it's collective quality should achieve.

So whilst we have massively over achieved as a company in building a squad for the budget we have, that squad is not over achieving - IMO- in terms of what it is capable of on the pitch if it achieves it's optimal performance levels regularly.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Whether we're overachieving or not, should harry be coming out with that? Hardly a vote of confidence for his players. He's always been a shameless self-promoter though, so it's hardly a surprise.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And I was right!

No, you were wrong. But to be fair so were plenty of others.

 

[Misfit]

I firmly believe that were we to finish 5th this season, even without this England situation happening - pretend England already had Jose installed on a 20 yr contract last summer, Levy wouldn't be hammering down Harry's door to thrust millions under his nose to stay on.

I think Levy would pull the trigger.

He got rid of Jol after 2 5th place finishes (yes, different circs etc) and the squad's current quality in and of itself and compared to other teams around us is far far higher.

We should be aiming for the top 4 and missing out should be a disappointment. Failing to meet realistic targets isn't a cause to break out the champagne.

 

[Bobbins]

Jonny Evans :lol:

I mean, come on.

Jonny Evans!

 

[guiltyparty]

If you look at our squad, then we're clearly not over-achieving. We have no god-given right for top four, but our squad is the equal or better than three of the other five teams vying for CL.

But there's no point getting our knickers in a twist over Harry's comments. He's just got that defensive kind of personality which makes him say dumb things when he's under pressure.

Personally I hate it, and it's one of the reasons why I'll never warm to Harry as a person, even if I learned a measure of respect for his qualities as a manager. But it's just the way he is and we all have to accept it.

This