Hear me out

[myhartlane]

I'm starting to warm to the idea of a younger manager who hasn't managed a club of our size before.

King is likely to be finished and Gallas has only one more year left on his contract and I doubt we'll renew. Corluka is also going to leave permanently if we get the right offer.

It's time to build a young team with a few older guys as the spine. We need somebody with the confidence to play our younger players despite the urgency of our fans to win every game. Benitez is not the right guy for this job in my opinion.

I agree: AVB or Brendan Rodgers IMHO

 

[bomberH]

Not one mention of the civil war and ownership issue/disaster he had to work under, especially in his last year when Christian Purslow who was brought in as MD with a MO to destroy him. How he didn't have a break down working under those conditions I still don't know.

Also, his net spend wasn't outrageous and all the signings he got wrong (e.g Keane) besides Aqualani he got most of, if not all the money back outlayed and bombed them out as soon as it was obvious they were a wrong fit unlike other Pool Managers who would rather save face by trying to shoe-horn £35m and £20m signings into a side they obviously don't fit in or belong in, in a desperate attempt to prove themselves right all along. He also made a profit on nearly every player he sold on, even shit ones like Sebastien Leto and Mark Gonzalez.

I also love this myth that Liverpool had unlimited money for Rafa to spunk in the transfer windows. In his last 4 or 5 windows he made a profit net-spend wise coz he had to to keep the club a float. After the Mascherano purchase in Jan 2007 he never really made 'big' one of single signings again.

But what about Glen Johnson (£18m) and Aqualani (£20m)? he spunked a shit load there! One thing that is NEVER mentioned about these two signings is what clubs these players were purchased from, Portsmouth and Roma respectively. The only reason at all these 2 players were bought was becuase we had 'credit' at those 2 clubs (£10m P'mouth owed for Crouch and Roma owed £6-7m for Riise). So Johnson 'cost' about £8-9m and Aqualani £13-14m. If these players played for different clubs were there was no money owed they wouldn't have been signed and that info is straight from the horses mouth.

Rafa had to wheel and deal his way through his time at Liverpool most of the time never getting his first choice player and continually having deals destroyed by MD Rick Parry. Off the top of my head here are the deals that have been proven to be cocked up by Parry when said player was ready to sign on dotted line:
-Alves
-Simao
-Fake Ronaldo
-Villa
-Silva
-Mata
-Bought Keane even though Rafa told him he only wanted Keane if Barry was bought first but Parry ignored him.
-Aguero (when he was still in Argentina and with to A. Madrid - self confessed LFC fan but Parry wouldn't/couldn't pay fee).

The only time he got his first choice of player coz it could be afforded was when Hicks+Gillet first bought the club took out £100m loan for players and let him get Torres.

Yet despite having the net money to spend and having to sell to buy for nearly his whole time there and including having to make a profit in his last few windows to pay interest accrued on the clubs debt and being caught in the middle of a civil war at the club and an ownership that saw LFC hours away from administration he had LFC in the top 4 nearly every year.

It just astounds me how even to this day people believe all the propaganda that was put out in the media becuase they hated him. Its always about the money spent and not about the money he got back in, its always about Aqualani and Keane but never any mention to the mitigatin circumstances that led to those buys, its always about his 'negative' football but never a mention of running Man u close in 2009 battering them 4-1 at OT and finishing the highest scoring team in the whole league. Doe's anyone remember his Valencia team? The one that was the only team to breakup the Barca/Real monoply without spending much money. They played football almost as good as Barca do now. Its always one sided clap-trap.

If people take their time to go out and look up the truth about Rafas career themselves like the OP has obviously done, rather than believing the the lies spread about by a xenophobic media who hate foreign managers, you would see he is one of the most dedicated, knowledgeable and tactically astute Managers out there and if Spurs took him on you would be in the top 4 every single year without a shadow of a doubt and could possibly even win the league. He has the tactical beating of every Manager in the Prem and is the only one I've seen to get one over on Fergie tactically and basically tell all the other Managers in the league how to beat Utd (which Fulham then did and Villa almost too). Why do you thik Fergie hated him so much? Coz he knew he had his number and if Rafa had Fergie's spending and wage power Utd were in trouble.

He won 2 trophies at Inter and wasn't allowed to spend any money and was then absolutely crippled by injuries to all his best players which led to him having to play some of their ressies/kids (who are now certified first teamers some of them now btw).

Go and look at what he was won. Not just with Liverpool but with Valencia and his teams before that. Look at Liverpool now and the Rafa period looks like a golden era.

I'm not Rafa's biggest fan and he has his faults as we all do but I get angry when I read all this media driven mis-information which just isn't true just please read around a little. Here's a start and I know its from a LFC fan but thats the only time the other side of the Rafa arguments ever gets put forward unfortunately:

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/06/some-rafa-benitez-facts-and-record/

Good post but I can't get past the goatee.

You're right about the media hating him and that's a big problem. There is a reason why they hated him, he's a ****. That would cause the media to be negative towards the club from day 1, which is something we could do without and may hinder his progress from the start. He used to be ok too, not quite sure what happened but he became more and more unlikeable each season. Then the whole goatee thing occurred and everything imploded due to that.

 

[StartingPrice]

Hmmmm, would that be like a manager taking off your star player in an FA Cup semi final whilst bringing on a striker who offers nothing except making gaps in the midfield.?

Not quite the same, but strangely similar

In a way...but clearly 'Arry was trying to make an offensive move in his totally tactically inept buffoon way - Benitez took a striker off and put a holding midfielder on, with time running out in a must win game - that's not being a totally tactically inept buffoon but at least trying to make an offensive move that is being a dull incredibly negative numpty. I hope you can now see the difference move cleary

 

[mattyspurs]

In a way...but clearly 'Arry was trying to make an offensive move in his totally tactically inept buffoon way - Benitez took a striker off and put a holding midfielder on, with time running out in a must win game - that's not being a totally tactically inept buffoon but at least trying to make an offensive move that is being a dull incredibly negative numpty. I hope you can now see the difference move cleary

I understand SP and I was only jesting. I do remember the game and we have talked about it before, The Sky camers capturing Stevie G looking on in disbelief as he takes off Torres.

 

[ethanedwards]

Nice perspective Toela65, as for the media, can't say what I would like to.
Always had a chuckle when people think that as a club we are to good for Rafa.

 

[StartingPrice]

I understand SP and I was only jesting. I do remember the game and we have talked about it before, The Sky camers capturing Stevie G looking on in disbelief as he takes off Torres.

I did realise - I was being faux patronising

 

[Bus-Conductor]

We've all got the odd reservation about Benitez, but of the realistic contenders who is better qualified ? I think we are all guilty of pigeon holing people like Benitez and being influenced by the negative media some receive.

If you are going to consider Moyes, then surely Benitez has to be on the short list. Shitloads of experience at the top end of this league, tactically adept, doesn't let big egos get in the way, gets his teams working hard and probably did just about as much as he could do with Liverpool.

He didn't handle the Alonso thing well (a great player who he should have clung to for dear life) and I could never understand why he persistently played Kuyt as a RM and persevered with Carragher.

He wouldn't be my first choice of the viable candidates, Rodgers is, but I can think of worse options.

 

[Mullers]

We've all got the odd reservation about Benitez, but of the realistic contenders who is better qualified ? I think we are all guilty of pigeon holing people like Benitez and being influenced by the negative media some receive.

If you are going to consider Moyes, then surely Benitez has to be on the short list. Shitloads of experience at the top end of this league, tactically adept, doesn't let big egos get in the way, gets his teams working hard and probably did just about as much as he could do with Liverpool.

He didn't handle the Alonso thing well (a great player who he should have clung to for dear life) and I could never understand why he persistently played Kuyt as a RM and persevered with Carragher.

He wouldn't be my first choice of the viable candidates, Rodgers is, but I can think of worse options.

He's earned the right to be on the short list certainly but if you going by who is the most qualified then why have you put Rodgers on top of your list above Benitez?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

He's earned the right to be on the short list certainly but if you going by who is the most qualified then why have you put Rodgers on top of your list above Benitez?

I wasn't saying I want the most qualified, I was saying logically, who is more qualified than Benitez of those realistically viable.

 

[Mullers]

Capello?

 

[StockSpur]

Undecided. He definitely is a potential candidate but I always disliked him in interviews. He has pedigree though and would certainly sort the defence out. Who are other realistic candidates who have his pedigree?

you prefer harry in interviews???

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Again, I can understand why he would be on the list. Personally I would have said Benitez's experience of this league - managing a club who weren't the biggest in the league - make him more qualified maybe in this instance, but I'm sure the argument would be countered with all the stuff Capello has won.

 

[rez9000]

No. Benitez is a waiter and should stick to waiting tables. He's also an arrogant unlikeable wanker. He also doesn't know how to sport a goatee. He buys 4 shit****s for every decent player and if people don't like Harry's interviews, wait until they see fat waiter man bring out a list of reasons Wenger gets preferential treatment from the PL.

Horrible horrible man/goatee.

So what, specifically, do you not like about him, bomber?

 

[$hoguN]

No mate. It was the exact opposite. When Rafa first arrived in 2004 LFC's Chief Exec was Rick Parry. Rafa picked the players and Parry, supposedly, did the deals. However, time after time (not just under Rafa under Houllier too) Parry and his comical ties would cock the deals up by wither taking too long, not acting quick enough, being too stingy over a mill, half a mill or a combination of all.

There is a famous story of Parry going on holiday to Barbados and switching his Phone off for the duration and around 3 big deals collapsing because of it.

Remember Gerrard nearly going to Chavs in 2005? That was all down to Parry too. Gerrard wanted to sign his contract straight after Instanbul but Parry thought there was "no rush" and delayed till after his "holidays". Sulky, needy Stevie took it the wrong way, thought Parry wanted the £32mil for him and banged a transfer request in.

Rafa wanted overall control because he was fed up with Parry messing deals up. In the end he got it, but by this time there was no money left due to the debt so it didn't really matter. Then came the "Fernando Torres of the Finance world" Christian Purslow who ballsed things up to a new level. The less said about him the better I think.

Things worked best when Rafa was responsible though as things actually got done.

That's the guy, and I see it the complete opposite way. When there was good deals to be done, he got them done i.e. Alonso, Reina and Torres, but when Rafa wanted shite players which he did all too often, Parry just pretended that he was busy rather than engaging in a public power struggle where the fans were only ever going to back Benitez.

 

[StartingPrice]

We've all got the odd reservation about Benitez, but of the realistic contenders who is better qualified ? I think we are all guilty of pigeon holing people like Benitez and being influenced by the negative media some receive.

If you are going to consider Moyes, then surely Benitez has to be on the short list. Shitloads of experience at the top end of this league, tactically adept, doesn't let big egos get in the way, gets his teams working hard and probably did just about as much as he could do with Liverpool.

He didn't handle the Alonso thing well (a great player who he should have clung to for dear life) and I could never understand why he persistently played Kuyt as a RM and persevered with Carragher.

He wouldn't be my first choice of the viable candidates, Rodgers is, but I can think of worse options.

There are other viable candidates, and I agree with you that Rodgers looks like he is worth taking a punt on as a long term option. I suppose he has EPL experience, CL experience and...a goatee
But, seriously, for reasons stated, I would prefer us to exhaust those other possibilities right now.

Roberto Martinez is looking an interesting one ATM - Goons nil, Wigan 2

 

[Toela65]

HI, I have been asked a couple of questions about Rafa an how I feel he would do at Spurs as I have a pretty in-depth knowledge of his time at Liverpool and what went on so I am bumping this thread rather than starting a new one. I'll start by reposting my intial posts in this thread as it pretty much outlines my feelings

Not one mention of the civil war and ownership issue/disaster Rafa had to work under, especially in his last year when Christian Purslow who was brought in as MD with a MO to destroy him. How he didn't have a break down working under those conditions I still don't know.

Also, his net spend wasn't outrageous and all the signings he got wrong (e.g Keane) besides Aquilani he got most of, if not all the money back outlayed and bombed them out as soon as it was obvious they were a wrong fit, unlike other Pool Managers who would rather save face by trying to shoe-horn £35m and £20m signings into a side they obviously don't fit in, or belong in, in a desperate attempt to prove themselves right all along. He also made a profit on nearly every player he sold on, even shit ones like Sebastien Leto and Mark Gonzalez.

I also love this myth that Liverpool had unlimited money for Rafa to spunk in the transfer windows. In his last 4 or 5 windows he made a profit net-spend wise coz he had to to keep the club a float. After the Mascherano purchase in Jan 2007 he never really made 'big' one of single signings again.

But what about Glen Johnson (£18m) and Aqualani (£20m)? he spunked a shit load there! One thing that is NEVER mentioned about these two signings is what clubs these players were purchased from, Portsmouth and Roma respectively. The only reason at all these 2 players were bought was becuase we had 'credit' at those 2 clubs (£10m P'mouth owed for Crouch and Roma owed £6-7m for Riise). So Johnson 'cost' about £8-9m and Aqualani £13-14m. If these players played for different clubs were there was no money owed they wouldn't have been signed and that info is straight from the horses mouth.

Rafa had to wheel and deal his way through his time at Liverpool most of the time never getting his first choice player and continually having deals destroyed by MD Rick Parry. Off the top of my head here are the deals that have been proven to be cocked up by Parry when said player was ready to sign on dotted line:
-Alves
-Simao
-Fake Ronaldo
-Villa
-Silva
-Mata
-Bought Keane even though Rafa told him he only wanted Keane if Barry was bought first but Parry ignored him.
-Aguero (when he was still in Argentina befoe Atletico - self confessed LFC fan who was on record as wanting to come, but Parry wouldn't large pay fee).

The only time he got his first choice of player coz it could be afforded was when Hicks+Gillet first bought the club took out £100m loan for players and let him get Torres.

Yet despite having limited money to spend and having to sell to buy for nearly his whole time there and including having to make a profit in his last few windows to pay interest accrued on the clubs debt and being caught in the middle of a civil war at the club and an ownership that saw LFC hours away from administration he had LFC in the top 4 nearly every year.

It just astounds me how even to this day people believe all the propaganda that was put out in the media because they hated him. Its always about the money spent and not about the money he got back in, its always about Aqualani and Keane but never any mention of the mitigating circumstances that led to those buys Their clubs owing us coin), its always about his 'negative' football but never a mention of running Man u close in 2009 battering them 4-1 at OT and finishing the highest scoring team in the whole league as well as beating Besiktas 8-0 and Real Madrid 5-0 (as well as beat Barca in the Nou Camp).

Doe's anyone remember his Valencia team that won the league twice? The one that was the only team to breakup the Barca/Real monoply without spending much money. They played football almost as good as Barca do now. Its always one sided clap-trap. They played us at Anfield and at their gaff and still today LFC supporters say they were the best they have ever seen a football team play.

If people take their time to go out and look up the truth about Rafa's career themselves like the OP has obviously done, rather than believing the lies spread about by a xenophobic media who hate foreign managers (especially ones who dare to challenge Fergie), you would see he is one of the most dedicated, knowledgeable and tactically astute Managers out there and if Spurs took him on you would be in the top 4 every single year without a shadow of a doubt.

He has the tactical beating of every Manager in the Prem on his day. Look at the 4-1 at Old Trafford. Why do you thik Fergie hated him so much and still does? It is well known that the only Managers Fergie is a cock with is the ones he fears and theones who don't bend over for him. Wenger, Mancini, Benitez, Mourinho etc.

He won 2 trophies at Inter and wasn't allowed to spend any money and was then absolutely crippled by injuries to all his best players (never gets a mention in the media) which led to him having to play some of their ressies/kids (who are now certified first teamers some of them now btw).

Go and look at what he was won. Not just with Liverpool but with Valencia and his teams before that. Look at Liverpool now and the Rafa period looks like a golden era. he took one of the worst LFC squads I have ever witnessed to their 5th European Cup. that alone he deserves respect for. It was his tactics and ability to get an extra 10% out of every player that won us that trophy.

You will find it hard to believe but I'm not Rafa's biggest fan and he has his faults as we all do. He can be stubborn (not with signings though) and there can be issues with his superiors (although I think he'd be fine with Levy as He's actually good at his job), but I get angry when I read all this media driven mis-information which just isn't true. Just please read around a little.

Here's a start and I know its from a LFC fan but thats the only time the other side of the Rafa arguments ever gets put forward unfortunately:

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/06/some-rafa-benitez-facts-and-record/

I have bolded what I feel is the most important points.

 

[Toela65]

That's the guy, and I see it the complete opposite way. When there was good deals to be done, he got them done i.e. Alonso, Reina and Torres, but when Rafa wanted shite players which he did all too often, Parry just pretended that he was busy rather than engaging in a public power struggle where the fans were only ever going to back Benitez.

This is completley wrong. Where did you hear this nonsense? The papers?

The stories about Parry costing the club signing Fake Ronaldo, Quaresma, Simao, D Alves, Aguero, Walcott (to name but a few!) are proven fact. He was a disaster.

There is a lot written about Parry's reign in the book Brian Reade wrote about Hicks & Gillettes takeover and era. he makes it very clear that Parry was a bafoon who cost Rafa and the club some very good players by being on holiday, or not paying the extra half a mill or thinking he new better on which players were good enough. Rick Parry is one of the most detested people amongst LFC for how bad he was at his job, the players he cost us, and the way he conducted the sale to H&G (he was bribed as was Moores).

Hiucks made the Parry thing public by going to to SSN and slating him. However, this was because he wouldn't let Hicks put more debt on the club (one of the few good things he actually did!).

The only reason Rafa wanted more say over transfers was because Parry was inept and costing the club good players. Rafa new he could do the job much better and quicker.

 

[ethanedwards]

Cheers Toela, used to watch Valencia a lot when I lived out there, as you said played really good stuff.
I would prefer Rafa to AVB, a lot of people blame the players, but IMO he failed to win them over.

 

[nightgoat]

This is completley wrong. Where did you hear this nonsense? The papers?

The stories about Parry costing the club signing Fake Ronaldo, Quaresma, Simao, D Alves, Aguero, Walcott (to name but a few!) are proven fact. He was a disaster.

Proven fact by whom, and where? Also, who do you mean by Fake Ronaldo? Cristiano?

 

[Toela65]

In conclusion, most LFC fans would be devastated if Rafa went to Spurs becuase we seem to be the only ones who really just how good he is. He would have you in the top 4 every year without doubt and LFC fans know this which is why we don't want him comin here.

Rafa managed the club from 2004 - 2010.

2004-05 Wins 5th Euro Cup and finishes 5th with one of the worst LFC squads since souness. Loses Carling Cup Final.
2005-06 Wins FA Cup and qualifies for Champions League comfortably.
2006-07 Gets to Champioms League final but loses to Milan despite playing very well. Qualifies for Champions League comfortably.
2007-08 Champions League Semi Final loses to Roman Abramovic. Qualifies for Champions League comfortably.
2008-09 Finishes 2nd in League after late title challenge. LFC score most goals in the league campaign. Champs League Quarters lose to Roman again. Qualifies for Champions League comfortably.
2009-10 Finishes 7th. Out in group stage of Champs League. Lost Xabi Alonso (£35m most of it to pay debt interest) He is sacked completely unecessarily and knee jerkily.

You can't say given all the circumstances and what he worked under (H&G and no money from Jan 2007. Sell to buy) that that is not an impressive record!