How are we going to get ENIC & Levy out?

[kevinfish]

I think it is hilarious people saying ENIC/Levy out... They own the club and it's not like a few discontent people are going to change that.

Imagine your local bakery started making shite bread for a while but people continued to buy it but there was a few customers telling them they should leave. The owners would laugh and continue as normal (hopefully trying to make that bread taste a bit better by buying better ingredients and getting rid of the out of date ones)

Like it or not ENIC are here to stay until THEY want to go. No amount of protesting or moaning is going to change that.

 

[TheGreenLily]

No, I don't think so, bar the odd blip, you should end up roughly where your financial muscle places you. For us, that's 5th/6th. Which I believe is about our average over the past decade.

I am all for our sustainable model and agree with, but it doesn't stop Levy from being a spanner that needs to Leave.

AVB wanted Moutinho, instead he got 3 players we didn't need that cost almost as much as Moutinho but drawing 3 wages as well, instead of 1. We could of got Mountinho and stayed within our budget, but would have had a creative influence which we desperately needed and still had Bale at the time too.

Yeah, it is okay to defend our sustainable methods, but seriously you cant see we are buying quantity over quality.... Just like in the Sugar day...

People are so blind

We can punch above our weight and we have the ability too, the problem is as I have highlighted above...

 

[Kendall]

I am all for our sustainable model and agree with, but it doesn't stop Levy from being a spanner that needs to Leave.

AVB wanted Moutinho, instead he got 3 players we didn't need that cost almost as much as Moutinho but drawing 3 wages as well, instead of 1. We could of got Mountinho and stayed within our budget, but would have had a creative influence which we desperately needed and still had Bale at the time too.

Yeah, it is okay to defend our sustainable methods, but seriously you cant see we are buying quantity over quality.... Just like in the Sugar day...

People are so blind

You took that from my post?


So blind.


You keep peddling this Moutinho stuff, I'm sure he did want him, I'm also sure Moutinho was branded a Monaco flop a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure that he has/had some third party ownership, which is notoriously difficult to overcome. I'm also quite sure you know fuck all as to why the deal didn't go through.

There's being blind and then there's trying to see things that aren't there.

 

[TheGreenLily]

You took that from my post?


So blind.

well, I actually edited my post... But yeah, we can punch above our weight, if Levy didn't keep screwing managers over with the example I gave above.

So yeah, your so blind

 

[nav007_2000]

I would want Levy as manager. That way we can give him even more abuse and he can sack himself.

 

[parklane1]

I just don't buy into the premise that most people want ENIC out, yes we've had a few crap decisions made recently but that don't mean we all want them out.

This, I travel in a group of up to 20 guys and none of them want ENIC out. Its mostly ' (as far as I can see) the armchair brigade who seem to want change.

 

[Kendall]

well, I actually edited my post... But yeah, we can punch above our weight, if Levy didn't keep screwing managers over with the example I gave above.

So yeah, your so blind

But we agree that there is an issue with the way we have been sourcing players, so I don't really see what you're getting at.

 

[Kendall]

I think we need to get over this idea that every other manager is getting the players they want, it's bollocks really. Didn;t Wenger say the day after Arsenal signed Welbeck that he didn't even want him? That's the longest serving manager, getting players bought for him without his knowledge. If deals can't be done, you have to look elsewhere. Lets not forget deals where we have been trumped on Hazard and Willian.

 

[Maske2g]

Be careful what you wish for. Whilst I agree that the current manager / DOF should go, also remember what Levy has done. Verge of a new stadium, new training complex, great players over the last 12 years, etc.

I remember the late 80s, late 90s, early 2000s.

I still think that with a fresh, sensible appointment, then we will be fine. If not a relegation battle beckons.

My one nagging doubt, is that I have a worry that we have some financial issues at the club, ie net spend, length of time for new ground.

It always goes back to those dark days, and it's utter bollocks.

WE NEARLY WENT BANKRUPT. Irvin Scholar nearly killed us. We benefited from Alan Sugar keeping us afloat, still being a London based, massively supported club, high ticket prices, and the fact the TV money is not distributed evenly.

The success of the premier league saved us, not Daniel Levy. We have turned a profit nearly every year they have been in charge.

Verge of a new stadium?? We had planning permission 4 years ago. Where is it. Had we bought out all the land at the bottom of the market, and not fannied over a 25 million greey bastard, we could have had a ground built by 2015. And we would have had that 25 M back by the time we will be moving into MK instead.

 

[TheGreenLily]

You took that from my post?


So blind.


You keep peddling this Moutinho stuff, I'm sure he did want him, I'm also sure Moutinho was branded a Monaco flop a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure that he has/had some third party ownership, which is notoriously difficult to overcome. I'm also quite sure you know fuck all as to why the deal didn't go through.

There's being blind and then there's trying to see things that aren't there.

You just don't get it do you?

Who gives a fuck if he worked out at Monaco or not, AVB wanted him and worked with him before and he knew what AVB's system was all about and far more creative than anyone else at club at the point... Even now...

But my point is, Levy would rather fuck over a manager than give them the players they really need... You want one quality player, here have 3 cheaper players, one might eventually turn out to be useful.

AVB started his first season with 4 goalies, 1 LB, 1RW (Lennon).... All because Levy and the fucking committee ain't got a clue what they are doing regarding the football side of things.

 

[Kendall]

You just don't get it do you?

Who gives a fuck if he worked out at Monaco or not, AVB wanted him and worked with him before and he knew what AVB's system was all about and far more creative than anyone else at club at the point... Even now...

But my point is, Levy would rather fuck over a manager than give them the players they really need... You want one quality player, here have 3 cheaper players, one might eventually turn out to be useful.

AVB started his first season with 4 goalies, 1 LB, 1RW (Lennon).... All because Levy and the fucking committee ain't got a clue what they are doing regarding the football side of things.

I do get it, you're making up bollocks based on hearsay.

AVB wanted him, the facts are Levy approached Porto (confirmed by Porto at the time) and we were in negotiations, the deal then broke down.

Those are the facts, anything else is you applying agenda. Multi-million pound deals are not easy to pull off by any stretch, especially when there is third party ownership with it's own idea of valuation. You have absolutely no evidence that Levy didn't try his utmost to get that deal done. All we know is that Levy did enter negotiations with Porto, which is the complete opposite of a chairman ignoring the wishes of his manager.

For a so-called scientist, your ability to interpret evidence is laughable.

 

[mpickard2087]

You just don't get it do you?

Who gives a fuck if he worked out at Monaco or not, AVB wanted him and worked with him before and he knew what AVB's system was all about and far more creative than anyone else at club at the point... Even now...

But my point is, Levy would rather fuck over a manager than give them the players they really need... You want one quality player, here have 3 cheaper players, one might eventually turn out to be useful.

AVB started his first season with 4 goalies, 1 LB, 1RW (Lennon).... All because Levy and the fucking committee ain't got a clue what they are doing regarding the football side of things.

There has to be give and take though. You aren't going to get every player you wish. Whilst Levy could, maybe should, have done things differently at certain points during his tenure at the club, everything I have read in regards to AVB is that he had a long list of ludicrously expensive and difficult, if not impossible in some cases, to attain players with no plan B or alternative suggestions if a deal wasn't possible and he would then throw his toys out of the pram when some of these deals, amazingly(!), didn't materialise.

 

[TheGreenLily]

I do get it, you're making up bollocks based on hearsay.

AVB wanted him, the facts are Levy approached Porto (confirmed by Porto at the time) and we were in negotiations, the deal then broke down.

Those are the facts, anything else is you applying agenda. Multi-million pound deals are not easy to pull off by any stretch, especially when there is third party ownership with it's own idea of valuation. You have absolutely no evidence that Levy didn't try his utmost to get that deal done. All we know is that Levy did enter negotiations with Porto, which is the complete opposite of a chairman ignoring the wishes of his manager.

For a so-called scientist, your ability to interpret evidence is laughable.

Unfortunately for you, you are talking about yourself there.

What about Pooch and the players he wanted?

That's right Levy fucked about, waited for Southampton to sell all the best players and then they doubled the price for the players Pooch wanted...

Is this not what happen? Oh that is right, it did, oh no.. those are the facts... Levy fucking about and dithering..... again fucked over another manager... Brilliant.

I think I will stick to what I believe, rather than living in a fantasy Levy dream world.

 

[Ionman34]

I would say that the majority are with me, even more so with the people who go to the games.

Most spurs fans I know are sick of it and have never felt so disillusioned with the club as they are now. Yes even the 90's was better than this. It's boring and after being so close then throwing it all away a couple of years later most people are thinking what's the point?!

The last game I went to with the lads was Southampton at home and before the game in the pub we was all saying how tempting it was to not bother going to the ground and stay in the pub instead and watch the other games. That is the apathy that is going on at the moment.

Something needs to change that is for sure. The way things are going there is absolutely no point in building a new stadium.

Well it is nice to know that you can type a reasoned post. As such I apologise for my initial response.

I'm as unhappy about the current state of affairs as anyone here, but I just don't hold with the attitude that you need to sack all and sundry when things aren't going swimmingly. We see the same attitude when players suffer a dip in form with malcontents calling for a player to be sold.

Levy has made, and still makes, mistakes, it happens. On the whole though, I prefer to look at the overall picture of what has been achieved under his tenure. We've gone through a lot of managers but, overall, have steadily progressed to the point where we have consistently overachieved in relation to our financial standing, all whilst remaining solvent and even turning a profit.
I understand that the game is about glory, not bank balances, but I lived through the mess that Scholar left so maybe I'm biased in that respect.

Whatever the reasons, I showed you a lack of respect which was highlighted all the more by your reasoned response. Kudos to you for that.

 

[TheGreenLily]

There has to be give and take though. You aren't going to get every player you wish. Whilst Levy could, maybe should, have done things differently at certain points during his tenure at the club, everything I have read in regards to AVB is that he had a long list of ludicrously expensive and difficult, if not impossible in some cases, to attain players with no plan B or alternative suggestions if a deal wasn't possible and he would then throw his toys out of the pram when some of these deals, amazingly(!), didn't materialise.

Of course there has to be some give and take...

But where the fuck has the give been...? Most of the choices our managers are getting are not anywhere near the first choice, just bargin bucket alternative, that is not give and take... We missed out on so many players because of dithering and fucking around...

 

[Kendall]

Unfortunately for you, you are talking about yourself there.

What about Pooch and the players he wanted?

That's right Levy fucked about, waited for Southampton to sell all the best players and then they doubled the price for the players Pooch wanted...

Is this not what happen? Oh that is right, it did, oh no.. those are the facts... Levy fucking about and dithering..... again fucked over another manager... Brilliant.

I think I will stick to what I believe, rather than living in a fantasy Levy dream world.

As I've said already, we both agree on the business this summer. You're trying to drum up an argument when we both agree. You're a lunatic, basically.

 

[TheGreenLily]

As I've said already, we both agree on the business this summer.

Yeah, I agree to that.

But I am also pointing out that we can punch above our weight if Levy stopped fucking about acted quick and decisive... Just like he did for Modric, rather than leaving everything to end of the window to try and save a few pennies here and there.

 

[TheGreenLily]

People keep going on about patience in the manager and players and 'only' 11 games gone but that ignores so much, the performances are getting worse not better. Let's say we lose at Hull-what then? The crisis plunges still further and then people really will start talking relegation. I believe the club do want to give this manager time but the factor I don't think many people bargained for was the mounting dissent against Enic. If we keep losing there's no way they'll say don't worry Mauricio you carry on old boy. And let me ask-does anyone genuinely fancy us to win at Hull?

WTF!!

 

[Kendall]

Yeah, I agree to that.

But I am also pointing out that we can punch above our weight if Levy stopped fucking about acted quick and decisive... Just like he did for Modric, rather than leaving everything to end of the window to try and save a few pennies here and there.

I agree. Schneiderlin should've been signed the day after France got knocked out of the cup.

 

[mpickard2087]

Of course there has to be some give and take...

But where the fuck has the give been...? Most of the choices our managers are getting are not anywhere near the first choice, just bargin bucket alternative, that is not give and take... We missed out on so many players because of dithering and fucking around...

Lets just take this manager and who we were heavily linked with.

Schneiderlin - Possibly we did dither a bit here. Although as we were trying to snap up Poch it didn't help that Liverpool snapped up three of their players for big money, plus Shaw went to Utd. They didn't therefore need the money which made things a bit trickier. I suppose we could have done the deal before Chambers went to Arsenal but that was still early in the summer, after that they realised the fan backlash to all these sales and weren't selling.

Rodriguez - Injured. Lets see what happens in January.

Musacchio - 3rd party. Legal disputes between clubs over who owns what % of him. Amazingly high transfer fee. On top of all that, player didn't really seem like he wanted to come.

Moreno - Broken leg.

One possible, but club didn't want to sell. Two injured, one looked a nightmare due to 3rd party and legal disputes.

We were also told Poch was happy with the squad and wasn't planning on making many changes, and was supposedly brought in because he could improve what was already at the club and mould a team that was greater than the sum of its parts. If he's calling for x, y and z already, then alarm bells maybe should be ringing...