How important is it to have a DM?

[Everlasting Seconds]

Haven't read all the thread, so apologies. Yeah, a DM is important. Most importantly because Pochettino prefers one in his starting line up. I see many (some, a few, IDK) posters keep stating that we don't play with a DM. Bogus. We (Pochettino) do.

There are many things we need to understand about Pochettino. One of them is that, except for defenders, no two players on the pitch have identical roles. Nobody is mirroring each other. For the CMs, this means that one player is expected to be staying behind, acting much like a DM.

The other CM moves more forward. Yes, it is true, the CM function must move the ball quickly forward on the pitch. However, only one of the CMs on the pitch has this as a core responsibility.

Double pivot doesn't have to mean two identical players with identical tasks and responsibility. For Pochettino, it means splitting tasks between two CMs. Ultimately, one will form a more defensive midfield base.

 

[nicdic]

Haven't read all the thread, so apologies. Yeah, a DM is important. Most importantly because Pochettino prefers one in his starting line up. I see many (some, a few, IDK) posters keep stating that we don't play with a DM. Bogus. We (Pochettino) do.

There are many things we need to understand about Pochettino. One of them is that, except for defenders, no two players on the pitch have identical roles. Nobody is mirroring each other. For the CMs, this means that one player is expected to be staying behind, acting much like a DM.

The other CM moves more forward. Yes, it is true, the CM function must move the ball quickly forward on the pitch. However, only one of the CMs on the pitch has this as a core responsibility.

Double pivot doesn't have to mean two identical players with identical tasks and responsibility. For Pochettino, it means splitting tasks between two CMs. Ultimately, one will form a more defensive midfield base.

I'm one of those posters. I've been saying we don't play a strict DM. Bentaleb is usually the deeper of our CM2, but I wouldn't say that means he's a DM. Most posters seem to be craving a strict DM. Someone who will primarily sit and shield, I don't think we play with that kind of player, so far it hasn't seemed to be a Poch kind of player, and so I don't think we'll go for that. The players that seem more likely are those that have a bit of everything to their game, in the same kind of model as Bentaleb/Mason/Alli/Winks/etc.

 

[chico]

Let's hope the new scouting team have got their eye on someone maybe in Europe or Africa even? It's a very important position, and I don't see who's very good and available in the Prem.? But I do agree with the post above , i don't want us to sign someone mediocre just for the sake of it. It felt like Stambouli was a weak substitute for Schneiderlin last summer.

 

[Barry Mead]

I don't think playing 4/2/3/1 you can have a dedicated DM. I think you need two very complete mids that can defend and create and have the necessary energy to cope with the demands. There's a number of players that can do that but most like to get forward at times so there is always a need for the other player to drop back or hold

Right now with a number of possible players already sold I'd like us to bite the bullet sign both Camacho and Illaramendi and partner them as the two, both can play great passes, both can read opposition attacks pretty well and get into positions to hold up attacks or put in tackles and both have very good engines

All that said I'd still rather we played 4/3/3 but that ain't gonna happen under Poch

 

[nicdic]

I don't think playing 4/2/3/1 you can have a dedicated DM. I think you need two very complete mids that can defend and create and have the necessary energy to cope with the demands. There's a number of players that can do that but most like to get forward at times so there is always a need for the other player to drop back or hold

Right now with a number of possible players already sold I'd like us to bite the bullet sign both Camacho and Illaramendi and partner them as the two, both can play great passes, both can read opposition attacks pretty well and get into positions to hold up attacks or put in tackles and both have very good engines

All that said I'd still rather we played 4/3/3 but that ain't gonna happen under Poch

There is no argument for signing two central midfielders. None.

 

[Hotspur33]

I'm in the Cambiasso camp. As soon as Schneiderlin signed for United, I feel we should have gone for the Argentinian.
I think a defensive/disciplined midfielder is important to most successful teams. And our squad in particular would benefit from the experience he would of bought.
Although another signing like Stambouli will not do.

 

[Barry Mead]

There is no argument for signing two central midfielders. None.

I can think of two excellent arguments Mason and Bentaleb. Two

 

[nicdic]

I can think of two excellent arguments Mason and Bentaleb. Two

Bonkers.

 

[Barry Mead]

Bonkers.

I'm sorry if you feel that way about yourself but there you go, for me neither Mason or Bentaleb are good enough to be first team regulars in a two man central midfield in a team that's looking to qualify for the CL

 

[nicdic]

I'm sorry if you feel that way about yourself but there you go, for me neither Mason or Bentaleb are good enough to be first team regulars in a two man central midfield in a team that's looking to qualify for the CL

OK.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

OK.

Watch out mate, he might hit you with another "i know you are but what am I" argument

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I'm sorry if you feel that way about yourself but there you go, for me neither Mason or Bentaleb are good enough to be first team regulars in a two man central midfield in a team that's looking to qualify for the CL

Interesting that you say that when the reports are coming out saying that Barcelona were interested in Bentaleb this summer.

But, you know, even though the champions league winners are interested in him he is clearly not good enough to play for a team that finished 5th and got knocked out of the Europa league.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I'm sorry if you feel that way about yourself but there you go, for me neither Mason or Bentaleb are good enough to be first team regulars in a two man central midfield in a team that's looking to qualify for the CL

Have you not read the quotes of Pochettino? He (rightly) knows it's highly unlikely we will get Top 4 in the immediate future, so he's building a team for the future. Telling Bentaleb to then fuck off is ludicrous. If you genuinely believe we have a chance of Top 4 in the next 3 years, I think you are slightly deluded. After that time, many youngsters we have will be entering their peak years, and then we'll have a good chance.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I'm sorry if you feel that way about yourself but there you go, for me neither Mason or Bentaleb are good enough to be first team regulars in a two man central midfield in a team that's looking to qualify for the CL

but mccarthy is?

 

[Barry Mead]

but mccarthy is?

Yeah I'd take him ahead of either, but he's still got some developing to do too. mind you it's somewhat irrelevant now

 

[Barry Mead]

Have you not read the quotes of Pochettino? He (rightly) knows it's highly unlikely we will get Top 4 in the immediate future, so he's building a team for the future. Telling Bentaleb to then fuck off is ludicrous. If you genuinely believe we have a chance of Top 4 in the next 3 years, I think you are slightly deluded. After that time, many youngsters we have will be entering their peak years, and then we'll have a good chance.

I really don't think we have a chance of getting top four under Poch period, so I have no delusions at all. As for Bentaleb who said anything about telling him to f off? I simply said I felt neither he nor Mason were good enough to be regular starters in a two man central midfield that had any realistic chance of making CL. Sounds like you agree.

Of course if we had a better central midfield we might have a better chance of making CL as I see that as arguably our biggest weakness, it's neither defensively strong enough or creative enough. To me that means there's two ways of improving it add a third man or get two better and I don't see Poch playing 4/3/3

As for Poch I think he's deluded if he thinks Levy will give him three more seasons without CL qualification, as for younger players hitting their peak in a few years time history suggests that by then those players that are any good will be at the likes of Real Madrid or Man United, if you think any different I would suggest you are the deluded one

 

[Barry Mead]

Interesting that you say that when the reports are coming out saying that Barcelona were interested in Bentaleb this summer.

But, you know, even though the champions league winners are interested in him he is clearly not good enough to play for a team that finished 5th and got knocked out of the Europa league.

Yeah we always here anything an agent wants to link to the press it doesn't mean there's any truth in it. Seriously who do you think Bentaleb would replace at Barca, they have some great young players coming through that are struggling to get in the team.

It's another one of those press made up rumours much like they wanted AVB a while back, if he ever gets there you can tell me I'm wrong but that ain't likely to happen and lets be honest if they really wanted him he would be there now they would have signed him when the contract negotiations were underway.

Barca are my local team there's no way they want him or need him. City maybe there might have been more logic in that argument because of home grown numbers but seriously not Barca

 

[Bus-Conductor]

What is meant by a DM ?

Sandro to me was a pure DM. Brilliant at winning the ball and preventing the opposition from playing but very limited at any other facet of the game.

If you play a CM2 and you are a possession biased team, then a pure, one dimensional DM is not really tactically the best solution. In a CM2 I'm not sure it's ever the best solution, certainly most weeks. A pure DM has a function but in a CM2 you ideally need two very good all rounders. They need to be mobile, dynamic, and have various, hopefully complimentary degrees of tenacity and football ability.

People will say Matic and Schniederlin are DM's but that is not quite right, what I would call them is Uber CM's. They are superb defensively, but they are footballers too, clever, technically excellent on the ball with good passing (range, economy, progression etc).

It would be lovely to have one of these "finished articles" uber CM's, but they are extremely rare, and as we have seen from the prices paid for the likes of Schniederlin, Matic, Kondogbia etc (and some aren't even the finished article) extremely expensive and highly sought after.

Schniederlin spoke glowingly about Pochettino improving the defensive side of his game. Surely this is what he needs to do with the players we have, specifically Bentaleb, who if he can improve the defensive side of his game, has the other skill set to be an uber CM.

The closest we could come to buying one now would seem to be Kramer (definitely not a finished article and completely unproven in there EPL) or Bender, who if he wasn't such a sick note would almost certainly have moved to a bigger club than us.

I also do not understand why Veljkovic hasn't been given any pitch time in post/pre season and we have experimented with Dier instead. Veljkovic has the type of qualities we are seeking in others. He's defensively proficient, he reads the game well, has a brain, good technique and can pass the ball really well. He is, without any shadow of a doubt, a better CM than Dier.


Do we really need a pure DM ? No, not in my opinion. I don't mind if we buy Kramer because I think he would appear to have genuine uber potential but most of all, we need Pochettino to get everyone around the CM's working better when we haven't got the ball and we need him to work with the very promising group of midfielders we have here.

We've seen the blueprint against Arsenal and Liverpool, we need that team ethic extracted on a more regular basis by the coach.

 

[ilikeost]

Like super duper important.

 

[DJS]

It's no coincidence that in the last 10-15 years, on those occasions when we've had an 'enforcer' type in the middle, we've always fared significantly better.

The obvious example being Scott Parker during those heady days.

I wanted Parker for aaaaageeeeee!

Real shame it took so long to get him and we only really benefitted from the one good season from him. :-(