How much more talent have we got coming through the ranks?

[IGSpur]

Is it possible that Maghoma may not have seen him because he was training/playing at the younger level or do you think hw would know pretty much everyone form a certain level up?
Who was the other person you spoke to within the club?

Maybe but I doubt it. That Lazar was 15 when we signed him so would most likely put him 16 so play with our u16s. Discounting Maghoma I even know the majority of that age group. He spoke about some of the other u16s and knowing there is a cull at each age group, I doubt he would be anywhere else in the academy like an u16s B even if that did exist someone of that alleged ability wouldn't play for him.

The other person I know works within the club with the u21s and knows the u18s. Granted he admits he doesn't watch the u16s/15s he still knew some of the players and a signing like that would be talked about.

Hmmm, maybe he's in the same situation as Musa Yahaya? Where he needs to wait till he's 18 before he officially signs a contract.

Maybe, but Yahaya has been confirmed to me by the two above and in a pic of the squad (I believe) plus news reports, and by all accounts is a proper talent . So if what you say is the case it wouldn't be any different to Yahaya and they should know.

 

[TottenhamLegend]

Is it possible that Maghoma may not have seen him because he was training/playing at the younger level or do you think hw would know pretty much everyone form a certain level up?
Who was the other person you spoke to within the club?

U18s would definitely know the U16s, by name at the very least. They usually play their games at the same time and often the same place too, so there would be a lot of interaction between the two squads.

 

[spurs9]

Maybe but I doubt it. That Lazar was 15 when we signed him so would most likely put him 16 so play with our u16s. Discounting Maghoma I even know the majority of that age group. He spoke about some of the other u16s and knowing there is a cull at each age group, I doubt he would be anywhere else in the academy like an u16s B even if that did exist someone of that alleged ability wouldn't play for him.

The other person I know works within the club with the u21s and knows the u18s. Granted he admits he doesn't watch the u16s/15s he still knew some of the players and a signing like that would be talked about.



Maybe, but Yahaya has been confirmed to me by the two above and in a pic of the squad (I believe) plus news reports, and by all accounts is a proper talent . So if what you say is the case it wouldn't be any different to Yahaya and they should know.

Thought that would be the case, but just thought I would ask the question. I think we can assume that we didn't pursue Lazar beyond his trial unless he can't join until he is 16 or 18, but then he would probably be training with is like Yahaya and Maghoma would have heard of him.

 

[beats1]

if you think of potential on a sliding scale format, so say something like:

0-10 - not going to make it
10-20 - non league
20-30 - league two
30-40 - league one
40-50 - championship
50-60 - lower premier league
60-70 - mid premier league
70-80 - upper premier league
80-90 - top premier league
90-100 - top world

then i really think edwards' scale would be 0-100, he's one of these that could go either way. azzaoui's scale would be more compressed(both ends) but given their ages it's incredibly difficult to predict. of the players 17 or younger then i would say onomah and carter-vickers have the highest "floor", i think it's pretty unlikely they don't make it at a decent level, especially onomah, whilst still having high ceilings. pritchard you'd say is in the 55-80 range, veljkovic around the same but his ceiling's a few points higher imo.

Pritchard hasn't been rated highly by people at the club at certain points and hasn't been rated highly by some of the youth watchers but I have always had the belief Pritchard could be as good as any level.

For me, he is a La Masia player or la liga sort of player. He has alot going against him however his technique is so good that with the right team he could be a huge player.

 

[alexis]

Diego Maradona - 5 foot 5 inches.

It'll be Edwards' mentality that determines whether or not he becomes a top player. Not his physique.

Jose Dominguez 5 foot 5

 

[alexis]

Reading some ITK saying there'll be no more big signings in the future and then this thread among others , I'd caution that it is possible to go too far in this 'Academy players only now' scenario .

The sprinkling of youth players coming through have done very well , but there have been significant contributions from foreign signings such as Lloris, Jan, Eriksen , Chadli etc etc to our recent upsurge .

The boneheaded 90s Sugar dictum , made just as the Prem became transformed by foreign imports , ' No more Carlos Kickaballs'
should not be reinstated , it set us back years . Its a blend we require and its important not to get too carried away and imagine a team full of Academy players can take us to the heights .

I think both sides of the coin have been recognised here hence reports on Depay. The real point is best value and not spending 30 mill on a lamela (price tag not his fault) 26 mill soldado etc if they don't fit or suit our ethos and system. Even the money on Chadl arguably could have been better spent with a more thorough scouting and analysis team in place which we now have. I think that we will spend that sort of money again but the players will succeed and we will be better off for them but these acquisitions will be few with the academy being a real source of talent. we will also continue to add 4 - 10 mill players who will be good prospects and compliment what we have coming through as with Saints.

 

[alexis]

It was a round up list of the players more likely to make it - but not all of them will make it of course.

So by this list full backs are still our problem. I know about KWP but a long way from the first team currently. Any others of note coming through

 

[JimmyG2]

Haven't read the whole thread but I hope someone
has name checked Tim.
He was a fool to himself on most things
and only appointed because he was sackable
but he was integral to recent youth development
and laid the foundations for the arrival of Mauricio.

 

[jambreck]

Haven't read the whole thread but I hope someone
has name checked Tim.
He was a fool to himself on most things
and only appointed because he was sackable
but he was integral to recent youth development
and laid the foundations for the arrival of Mauricio.

He's worth a name check, certainly.

But only a fair way down the list. There are other people - some still at the club, others now elsewhere - who are far more responsible for our current academy success

You have to remember that Sherwood's involvement with the younger players didn't begin until 2010 (or later?) and ended when he took on the manager's role in December 2013. So a comparatively brief interlude. And even then, his remit was limited to coaching the development squad and managing academy graduates' transition to first team football via loans etc.

 

[wlhatwhl]

McEvoy?

No, he's the next Gareth Bale, in looks at least.

 

[SpainSpur85]

No, he the next Gareth Bale, in looks at least.

He looks more like Gylfi Sigurðsson now...

 

[millsey]

Pritchard hasn't been rated highly by people at the club at certain points and hasn't been rated highly by some of the youth watchers but I have always had the belief Pritchard could be as good as any level.

For me, he is a La Masia player or la liga sort of player. He has alot going against him however his technique is so good that with the right team he could be a huge player.

No offence but surely the coaches of Tottenham would know a bit more about Pritchard then the bits you have seen of him?

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Is he even 16 yet? He might have a bit more growing to do including bulking out.

Yeah , look at me, I was skinny as a rake at 16. Now i've certainly put bulk on….. GIves me a great centre of gravity.

 

[Blake Griffin]

this is a quote from tim on marcus edwards, it's a few months old so has probably been seen by most but it's nice to read anyway:

'Currently in the academy at Spurs there is a 15-year-old, Marcus Edwards, who is already playing for England Under-17s. He is the kind of player who, as a coach, makes you look forward to walking out on to that pitch in the morning. Everyone in development football has heard of Marcus. He is a gifted technician with a low centre of gravity, who can pass off either foot or dribble past opponents'

'When I was at Spurs, I would persuade anyone and everyone at the training ground to come over to see him train. He is a joy to watch. Again, he is the kind of player who might not always get a game. There might be a bigger boy who could be more effective on that given day, but in time Marcus has the potential to be a great player, a make-the-difference footballer. He can win you a game. These are the kind of talented players that we must not neglect.'

 

[SFCS]

if you think of potential on a sliding scale format, so say something like:

0-10 - not going to make it
10-20 - non league
20-30 - league two
30-40 - league one
40-50 - championship
50-60 - lower premier league
60-70 - mid premier league
70-80 - upper premier league
80-90 - top premier league
90-100 - top world

then i really think edwards' scale would be 0-100, he's one of these that could go either way. azzaoui's scale would be more compressed(both ends) but given their ages it's incredibly difficult to predict. of the players 17 or younger then i would say onomah and carter-vickers have the highest "floor", i think it's pretty unlikely they don't make it at a decent level, especially onomah, whilst still having high ceilings. pritchard you'd say is in the 55-80 range, veljkovic around the same but his ceiling's a few points higher imo.

Sorry but I think this is totally wrong. A lot of it comes down to the mental side of things which are near impossible for us to judge at youth level. There's the attitude and ego which are the obvious problems if they're not channeled in the right way but there's also the ability to learn. The academies teach players a lot about the basics, give the players some ideas and advice but the step up is still huge.

Players can come through the ranks with great skill, or pace, or strength but reaching the Premier League is tough for a lot of them. You see players like Taraabt, Falque, Obika, etc that look excellent as a youngster either in the youth sides or Football League(thinking of Adel at QPR here) that just can't make the step up. When you see how well they can perform against there peers it seems inevitable they'll make it but as I've said before, your natural attributes are never quite as effective in the PL and it's a difficult obstacle to overcome. A player like Taraabt can be incredibly skillful but in the Premier League you don't get the same amount of time on the ball and it nullifies there game. Same with pacy players, it can work for a time but eventually you start playing against experienced defenders that know how to play against fast players and have been for years, unlike the defenders in other youth sides. It's where the learning comes in and why it is essential for any player looking to make it to the top level.

The very best are able to apply what the coaches are telling them and have the intelligence to work on their own game. For me the later part is the difference between Robben and Ronaldo. Robben's still doing essentially the samething he was doing at Chelsea but Ronaldo's come up with various ways to improve his game throughout his career. Things like his freekicks which were very different to anyone else's style, or when he's double marked he often stays wider to open up the pitch for others or that when he gets into the box he has a range of different ways to work himself a yard of space. Kane's similar in that aspect. Although he's never really had the blistering pace, exceptional technique or the finishing(I'd argue) to set him up to be a top player, our Harry just seems to have that ability to keep improving his game and adding variety to it, he's not just on the shoulder of the defender looking to get behind, he's not just holding up the ball, he's varying his game and it's showing because no one seems to be able to work out how to stop him. Everyone's expecting his form to drop off because that's what happens to youngsters, the ones that burst onto the scene get figured out and become inconsistent until they can work out how to beat the way the defenders are playing against them. Kane's making it too difficult for some of the most experienced defenders in the league at the moment and that's just crazy for someone of his age and ability.

Sorry for writing an essay on a fairly quick point but basically I just wanted to point out there's a lot to the mental side of the game that perhaps doesn't get appreciated. Even when someone shows it, it's generally considered some miraculous rise out of nowhere, some against all odds story.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Sorry but I think this is totally wrong. A lot of it comes down to the mental side of things which are near impossible for us to judge at youth level. There's the attitude and ego which are the obvious problems if they're not channeled in the right way but there's also the ability to learn. The academies teach players a lot about the basics, give the players some ideas and advice but the step up is still huge.

Players can come through the ranks with great skill, or pace, or strength but reaching the Premier League is tough for a lot of them. You see players like Taraabt, Falque, Obika, etc that look excellent as a youngster either in the youth sides or Football League(thinking of Adel at QPR here) that just can't make the step up. When you see how well they can perform against there peers it seems inevitable they'll make it but as I've said before, your natural attributes are never quite as effective in the PL and it's a difficult obstacle to overcome. A player like Taraabt can be incredibly skillful but in the Premier League you don't get the same amount of time on the ball and it nullifies there game. Same with pacy players, it can work for a time but eventually you start playing against experienced defenders that know how to play against fast players and have been for years, unlike the defenders in other youth sides. It's where the learning comes in and why it is essential for any player looking to make it to the top level.

The very best are able to apply what the coaches are telling them and have the intelligence to work on their own game. For me the later part is the difference between Robben and Ronaldo. Robben's still doing essentially the samething he was doing at Chelsea but Ronaldo's come up with various ways to improve his game throughout his career. Things like his freekicks which were very different to anyone else's style, or when he's double marked he often stays wider to open up the pitch for others or that when he gets into the box he has a range of different ways to work himself a yard of space. Kane's similar in that aspect. Although he's never really had the blistering pace, exceptional technique or the finishing(I'd argue) to set him up to be a top player, our Harry just seems to have that ability to keep improving his game and adding variety to it, he's not just on the shoulder of the defender looking to get behind, he's not just holding up the ball, he's varying his game and it's showing because no one seems to be able to work out how to stop him. Everyone's expecting his form to drop off because that's what happens to youngsters, the ones that burst onto the scene get figured out and become inconsistent until they can work out how to beat the way the defenders are playing against them. Kane's making it too difficult for some of the most experienced defenders in the league at the moment and that's just crazy for someone of his age and ability.

Sorry for writing an essay on a fairly quick point but basically I just wanted to point out there's a lot to the mental side of the game that perhaps doesn't get appreciated. Even when someone shows it, it's generally considered some miraculous rise out of nowhere, some against all odds story.

i wasn't discounting the mental side of the game but given i don't work for the club or know the players personally then it's only the technical and physical side i can base my opinion of them on, i have no way of knowing how driven or how lax some of them may be. as for the ronaldo/robben comparison, i'm one of an admittedly tiny minority who actually prefers robben but i get your point regarding how focused ronaldo is and how hard he's worked.

 

[Dharmabum]

So by this list full backs are still our problem. I know about KWP but a long way from the first team currently. Any others of note coming through

Yes, apart frokm KWP no stand out FB. Ogilvie has been solid as LB albeit he looks more of a CB IMO (but I may well be wrong). LB Brown is only 16, so far too young to be passed judgement on yet.

 

[SFCS]

i wasn't discounting the mental side of the game but given i don't work for the club or know the players personally then it's only the technical and physical side i can base my opinion of them on, i have no way of knowing how driven or how lax some of them may be. as for the ronaldo/robben comparison, i'm one of an admittedly tiny minority who actually prefers robben but i get your point regarding how focused ronaldo is and how hard he's worked.

Yeah, I know but I was just pointing out a factor that we can't consider because we don't know, which makes it difficult to put a limit on someone's prospects. It's really just hedging bets to put potential ability into a range like that.

As for Robben-Ronaldo, we'll just have to totally and utterly disagree on that

 

[$hoguN]

Who, realistically, can be around the first team next season?

Pritchard for sure. Carroll, if he doesn't get sold.

Veljkovic? Yedlin? Alli? Fredericks?

IGSpurs, you list 6 players in that U21 group, but only Oduwa has gone out on loan, and just this past window. You think 5 of them are just going to transition a la Bentaleb? Keeping in mind that we already have the talent we do, and those that have already stepped up, plus Pritchard/Fredericks/Carroll/etc all coming back from loan, let's be more serious here.

2015/6 first team squad- who have we got that realistically will be given the minutes and chances as opposed to ones who are promising but we're going to bleed them out on loan first to get a taste of League football. I would say that, for example, this year Carroll and Pritchard would not be counted as potential given that they were loaned out and thus would not be making an appearance for us.

I much prefer the idea of loaning out to Championship sides when the time is right so that they can get experience and challenge for a place immediately come season next as opposed to hanging around our bench stealing 1 minute here and there.

Pritchard, Yedlin and Alli will be.

Veljkovic, Onomah, Winks, Oduwa are all also likely to be around the squad too imo.

 

[beats1]

No offence but surely the coaches of Tottenham would know a bit more about Pritchard then the bits you have seen of him?

I don't know, I have seen alot of him including for England then again we have made some silly decisions but also might of partly been because for other reasons involving Mel Johnson

Also the club had a policy in which each player had a price on their head. Thankfully the we put in a buy back clause it seems on Luongo though at one point the swindon press have been telling us that we had a 40% sell on fee

Everyone that watched Luongo play knew he was better than that level and they tried to send cebellos who wanted to stay