"ITK" from Archibald on SO

[Kyras]

Taarabt is just an enigma wrapped in a mystery shrowded in an enigma. His skills are there for all to see but he just doesn't seem to be learning, or even trying to learn, to play as a team member. And before people jump on me and say he hasn't had the chances, by all accounts in the reserves he's exactly the same. He hasn't made a massive name for himself in the reserves and you have to wonder whether if he hasn't made the step up there whether he'll make the step up at all.

Taarabt, although frustrating, I feel it's down to frustration, he's almost too keen to impress, if he had a run in the first team, he would probably learn to play as a team a bit more, he seems to feel, rightly or wrongly, that he is above the ressies, but if thrown into the first team (for more than 30 minuets) he might learn to play as team. Pre-season will show us a hell of a lot I would imagine.

 

[SpurSince57]

Ramos clearly prefers Dawson as partner for Woody, at least for the time being and whilst Ledley is unavailable. This seems to baffle a lot of people—after all, there is little to choose between them when it comes to dropping clangers, Kaboul's at least as good in the air and better in the tackle (success percentage-wise, he's the best in the squad); there's not a lot to choose when it comes to passing, or effort and commitment. I'm sure, as TSH says, that it's almost wholly down to positioning; whatever his faults, Dawson does the basics of playing at CB better. Kaboul seems to be all over the place, and whilst you may be able to get away with that in Ligue 1, you most certainly can't in the EPL. It may have been possible to address this over the summer, but that interview's cooked his goose. It wasn't mistranslated, and no manager is going to stand for nonsense like that.

As for Taarabt, Clive's pulled him off in frustration in almost every reserve game this season (and not in the pleasurable sense, either :grin. Check BOF's reports, or those on SO.

 

[Dharmabum]

Vidic, Evra, Essien, Ballack, Hleb ....they didn't exactly that the EPL by storm in their first season, did they...
In fact Evra was at one stage only 5th choice LB (behind Silvestre, Heinz, O'Shea and Richardson) and's now the best LB in the EPL.
Taarabt is still only 18 and I firmly believe should Kaboul go back to Ligue 1 he'll turn into one of that leagues best CD etc etc.
Read that the Kaboul fee will be around £8m with add-ons. Just as Gilberto (nicknamed Giba in Brazil) fee was £1,2m and not £2m. Nor did Modric cost £20m as some papers says.

 

[Dan Ashcroft]

I suspect all 3 will still be on our books come August.

Taarabt will definitely go on loan. He's only ever played in 8 senior games in his career so needs football. Somewhere like West Brom or Reading (if they stay up) is likely.

 

[stemark44]

If the likes of Kaboul,Boateng and Taarabt are not improving as players or getting their heads down and working extra extra hard to make our first team squad,then in my opinion they should be sold!
We are not Man Utd or Chelsea and we can't afford to have £17 million worth of players sitting in limbo!

 

[Bill_Oddie]

I find the news that Taarabt wants out about 1/1000th as incredible as the fact that every single SC poster in this thread has spelt his name correctly (Archibald being the exception :roll: ). Absolutely extraordinary stuff. This day will go down in SC history.

 

[nicdic]

We have to keep both Taarabt and Kaboul. I think Kaboul has got so much potential, and I really think that if he were to play alongside Woodgate, he'd be just as good positionally as Dawson, seeing as Dawson is woeful when he plays alongside anyone thats not King or Woody. Kaboul does offer goals as well, much more of a presence at set pieces. Given the summer to work hard, and given some game time with an assured partner at the back I feel he could become a great centre back, Dawson I feel will never really improve much beyond being a "Michael Brown" gives a lot, wears his heart on his sleeve, but lacking a little in ability.

Taarabt is tougher, I think he really does need to have game time in the league to improve. Gilberto hadn't impressed in his reserve appearances, yet he did a decent job last week. A loan move would be brilliant for him, definitely too early to sell.

 

[Dharmabum]

If the likes of Kaboul,Boateng and Taarabt are not improving as players or getting their heads down and working extra extra hard to make our first team squad,then in my opinion they should be sold!
We are not Man Utd or Chelsea and we can't afford to have £17 million worth of players sitting in limbo!

Of course if they don't improve as players then they should be sold; that would be the case of all young players, though.
Depends what you mean with "limbo" though. Don't think ManU keep players either for years in "limbo" if they don't improve - Fergie can be quite quick in selling players with the wrong attitude.
But being impatient and unrealistic is another thing.

 

[yanno]

I find the news that Taarabt wants out about 1/1000th as incredible as the fact that every single SC poster in this thread has spelt his name correctly (Archibald being the exception :roll: ). Absolutely extraordinary stuff. This day will go down in SC history.

:rofl:

Yup, and B-C has promised to spell Berchiche correctly from now on. Good stuff, B-C! :up:

I hope Dan is correct about the likes of Taarabt & Kaboul still being on our books in August - even if they're out on loan. The top Italian and Spanish clubs routinely loan promising young players out for entire seasons. For instance, Barca loaned Mikel Arteta to Sociedad, Paris S-G, and Rangers before they finally decided to sell him in his early twenties. And Wenger has had the Mexican wunderkid Carlos Vela on loan in La Liga since 2005 (partly to get a Spanish passport but also to get invaluable top-level experience).

It would be very short-sighted to sell Kaboul, Taarabt & Boateng at this stage - unless we desperately need the money for a couple of big first team signings.

 

[stemark44]

Of course if they don't improve as players then they should be sold; that would be the case of all young players, though.
Depends what you mean with "limbo" though. Don't think ManU keep players either for years in "limbo" if they don't improve - Fergie can be quite quick in selling players with the wrong attitude.
But being impatient and unrealistic is another thing.

Limbo - not being in the first team squad and not playing regularly for the reserves.

 

[DJS]

57, wot the 'ell is a 'rumour ranger' anyway? A ranger who rangers rumours?

:lol:

I asked this in the help forum ages back and a rumour ranger is a mod but only of the transfer rumour forum! :up:

SS57 will probably ascend to a mod at some point I reckon once he gets a taste for the POWER (mwa ha ha hah!!!) ahem, excuse me got carried away a bit then...

 

[nicdic]

Yeah, SS57, Ever and myself will be Mods within the Transfer Rumour Forum which will be opening soon. We'll be keeping it all tidy, and hopefully providing you with all the need to know info throughout the window. It should be a good one :up:

 

[eddiebailey]

Yeah, SS57, Ever and myself will be Mods within the Transfer Rumour Forum

mg:

 

[SpurSince57]

Vidic, Evra, Essien, Ballack, Hleb ....they didn't exactly that the EPL by storm in their first season, did they...
In fact Evra was at one stage only 5th choice LB (behind Silvestre, Heinz, O'Shea and Richardson) and's now the best LB in the EPL.
Taarabt is still only 18 and I firmly believe should Kaboul go back to Ligue 1 he'll turn into one of that leagues best CD etc etc.
Read that the Kaboul fee will be around £8m with add-ons. Just as Gilberto (nicknamed Giba in Brazil) fee was £1,2m and not £2m. Nor did Modric cost £20m as some papers says.

I don't think that's the issue with Kaboul, though, DB. There's hardly anyone on SC that doesn't rate him as a prospect, and it's not his fault that he was chucked in at the deep end. The problem is what he said about Ramos in that interview. His youth, a grovelling apology, and maybe most of all the near- certainty that Levy won't want a £3m hit on our investment may save his bacon, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

 

[SpurSince57]

Yeah, SS57, Ever and myself will be Mods within the Transfer Rumour Forum which will be opening soon. We'll be keeping it all tidy, and hopefully providing you with all the need to know info throughout the window. It should be a good one :up:

Yes, the greatest trio since Groucho, Chico and Harpo. Pity we couldn't find a Gummo and a Zeppo (or is Stoof Gummo?).

 

[PT]

One of the least discussed factors by fans of a club that works hard on investing in a fruitful youth policy is their education.

Let's face facts here.


The kids aspire through the ranks and work their way in to the Reserves; a mix of returning-from-injury first teamers, seasoned 18-22 year olds on the cusp, and one or two that step up as a consequence of shortages or by forcing themselves to be noticed.

Those that are treading water to get a run out in the first team have further hurdles to jump. Keeping match sharp in poor quality reserve matches - doing enough to keep the eye of the first team coach - as well as motivation.

Now translate those elements to a young player who is good enough for a sniff of a first team run-out but not week in - week out.

This guy wants the challenge of betterment in order to self improve. A decent crowd atmosphere and the changing room and training ground banter of a first team squad that is working as a close unit.

Give the guy a loan out to a fellow Premiership side - ie Routledge to Portsmouth, then Fulham. Get them into a decent Championship side that will be fighting at the right end of the table, enabling an education that provides for the taste of success.

We are used to seeing our first team of multi million players take to the field to contest. We just love it if a product of our youth investment comes through, but we don't half jump on the lad if he doesn't cut the mustard. We forget that his education is continuing in front of our seasoned eyes without any compromise from 33000 hard nosed supporters.

The likes of Kaboul and Taarabt and Lennon would ideally have had this introduction to the world of THFC before getting close to the first team. As circumstances would have it, injury and lack of form has meant that these potential stars of tomorrow have been called upon to serve way, way before they should have been. Arsenal is a superb model for this kind of grooming, so to speak.

I hope that we can ship these players out for a season to collect the experience and skills and mind set that is going to be required of them when called upon by Ramos.

 

[yanno]

The likes of Kaboul and Taarabt and Lennon would ideally have had this introduction to the world of THFC before getting close to the first team. As circumstances would have it, injury and lack of form has meant that these potential stars of tomorrow have been called upon to serve way, way before they should have been. Arsenal is a superb model for this kind of grooming, so to speak.

I hope that we can ship these players out for a season to collect the experience and skills and mind set that is going to be required of them when called upon by Ramos.

Whilst I agree in principle, Kaboul & Taarabt are very different cases. Kaboul was playing regularly for Auxerre in the French top division, so he had quite a bit of first-team experience. In his own words, he chose us over a CL side because he wanted to play 30 games of first team football this season rather than sitting on a CL team's bench. He would not have signed for us if we'd told him we would be loaning him out for his first season.

On the other hand, Taarabt does need top level experience. Unfortunately, it seems he was promised fairly regular first-team football at Spurs which is why he signed. It's now clear he's not ready to break into our team, so he should be happier than Kaboul at being loaned out to a good technical team (say in La Liga) to get top-level experience.

Kaboul might refuse to go out on loan, preferring a permanent transfer if his relationship with Ramos is not great.

 

[eddiebailey]

The likes of Kaboul and Taarabt and Lennon would ideally have had this introduction to the world of THFC before getting close to the first team. As circumstances would have it, injury and lack of form has meant that these potential stars of tomorrow have been called upon to serve way, way before they should have been.

I think that is true of Lennon, who was brought in under a different regime, but Kaboul was purchased because we needed cover for Dawson and King (particularly King) and Gardner and Rocha were not deemed up to scratch. When we paid £8m for him it was always the intention that he would see a lot of first team football. That was why he came here and why Jol selected him over Gardner and Rocha at the start of the season.

As for Taarabt, he only joined us because he was promised first team football, which Lens had told him he was not ready for.

Arsenal is a superb model for this kind of grooming, so to speak.

Indeed. Our problem is not just our fans but our management have expected too much too young.


EDIT: Posted before I saw Yanno's response!

 

[DJS]

Yes, the greatest trio since Groucho, Chico and Harpo. Pity we couldn't find a Gummo and a Zeppo (or is Stoof Gummo?).

I can be Zeppo! :hello:


Or am I thinking of Zippy... hmmm... :think: