Jose Mourinho

[Aphex]

Ally mentions Dele, Aurier, Winks, Dier (said Mourinho was especially upset with him after Liverpool), Toby & Rose as players that Mourinho has pushed to the side a bit. He goes on to say those are a lot of very popular figures in the dressing room and other players will take notice to that.

This is our issue. Some of our worst players are also some of our core players. The HG contingent if you will.

Dele - Understand the clamour for him going back into the side considering we can't score, but a classic case of a player getting better than he really is when he is out of the team. He was poor for two years before this, is a bad trainer and thinks he is better than he is. Alli under performed under Poch too for a considerable period let's not forget.
Winks - 25 years old. Nothing to say other than he is not good enough, not even close.
Dier - 27 and will never be a top CB, makes too many mistakes.
Aurier - Had a good season relatively but is a loose cannon and probably wants out.
Rose - meh
Toby - still useful but declining fast

Our best players are Lloris, Reguilon, PEH, Ndombele, GLC, Son, Kane (I'll add Bergs / Rodon as they have potential). We need to build around them, the rest really should be up for sale. Only one out of our first choice backline are good enough. That is a seriously bad state of affairs.

It doesn't matter who we bring in as a new manager. Jose said in his last PC post Brighton that, after it was put to him by a journalist that with the players still making so many mistakes, it's got to the point where you just have to say the players aren't good enough? Jose basically agreed with him without saying it. Dier will never stop making mistakes, he isn't going to turn into John Terry suddenly under any manager. Winks will never become a dominant ball playing dynamic CM player. We need to move on the squad filler and replace with young talented players, and we also need to sign defenders, good ones.

I am still Jose out as the tactics and style of play have been awful, but the fault likes in many places, recruitment / squad building, Jose, Levy for thinking players like Alli are worth keeping instead of backing his manager. I think multiple people are responsible. What worries me is does Levy hold players like Dier, Winks, Alli etc in too high regard?

The AON doc showed he really is quite clueless about judging footballers. If we have a chairman with a strong grip on the club, almost DOF like if you will, thinking players are better than they are, and a manager like Jose who thinks those same players are not good enough, you can see where we have issues. The leadership needs to come from Levy, he needs to be told from someone he will listen to or realise that in fact half our squad really aren't at the required standard. The Alli situation worries me because for all intents and purposes the club should have got rid, a forward planning club who were progressing should have made that decision to move on, and we didn't...why?

 

[Insomnia]

Dele doesn't deserve to be frozen out I agree.

But he has been shit for 2 years and there's a reason he isn't in the team.

He was far to reliant on Eriksen. Hell our whole team is now suffering because we haven't replaced the guy, just look at our attacking play, we have no clear plan.

When Eriksen played well we won, however, imo, we never replaced Moussa Dembele , what I'd give for Jose to have peak Eriksen & Dembele to put in our team

 

[Metalhead]

This is our issue. Some of our worst players are also some of our core players. The HG contingent if you will.

Dele - Understand the clamour for him going back into the side considering we can't score, but a classic case of a player getting better than he really is when he is out of the team. He was poor for two years before this, is a bad trainer and thinks he is better than he is. Alli under performed under Poch too for a considerable period let's not forget.
Winks - 25 years old. Nothing to say other than he is not good enough, not even close.
Dier - 27 and will never be a top CB, makes too many mistakes.
Aurier - Had a good season relatively but is a loose cannon and probably wants out.
Rose - meh
Toby - still useful but declining fast

Our best players are Lloris, Reguilon, PEH, Ndombele, GLC, Son, Kane (I'll add Bergs / Rodon as they have potential). We need to build around them, the rest really should be up for sale. Only one out of our first choice backline are good enough. That is a seriously bad state of affairs.

It doesn't matter who we bring in as a new manager. Jose said in his last PC post Brighton that, after it was put to him by a journalist that with the players still making so many mistakes, it's got to the point where you just have to say the players aren't good enough? Jose basically agreed with him without saying it. Dier will never stop making mistakes, he isn't going to turn into John Terry suddenly under any manager. Winks will never become a dominant ball playing dynamic CM player. We need to move on the squad filler and replace with young talented players, and we also need to sign defenders, good ones.

I am still Jose out as the tactics and style of play have been awful, but the fault likes in many places, recruitment / squad building, Jose, Levy for thinking players like Alli are worth keeping instead of backing his manager. I think multiple people are responsible. What worries me is does Levy hold players like Dier, Winks, Alli etc in too high regard?

The AON doc showed he really is quite clueless about judging footballers. If we have a chairman with a strong grip on the club, almost DOF like if you will, thinking players are better than they are, and a manager like Jose who thinks those same players are not good enough, you can see where we have issues. The leadership needs to come from Levy, he needs to be told from someone he will listen to or realise that in fact half our squad really aren't at the required standard. The Alli situation worries me because for all intents and purposes the club should have got rid, a forward planning club who were progressing should have made that decision to move on, and we didn't...why?

Fair points and it's good to see someone realising that it's not just one issue at play here. There is no magic bullet to fix this.

 

[Gareth88]

Must be trying to get things to work.

Doesnt that break lockdown protocol

 

[southlondonyiddo]

This is definitely the feeling that im getting now. This season is even worse for it as usually youd be able to have a nice little break from it as we'd go 7 - 9 days between games, as it is now its every 3-4 days that im having to set up the laptop and sit through 90 minutes of boredom now that the anger stage has left me.

Overall i just feel sad, it seemed a few years ago we had a plan, a bright future and a club we could be proud of. For me now we've regressed as far back as the Sherwood days where i have a genuine dislike for certain players which isnt fair as i know they try their best but ive just seen way too many times over the past 3 years that Davies, Sissoko's, Lamela and Lucas just arent good enough.

It is sad and we did have a plan a few years ago

Unfortunately not buying a single player in 3? consecutive windows fucked us. As predicted by myself and many others. It was an incredibly dangerous and disastrous decision

I believe that just the purchase of Grealish that summer would have been enough to refresh and revitalise our squad and we’d be in a very different place today

Obviously Grealish wasn’t the player he is now back then but there is no reason why he wouldn’t have flourished under Poch and around Kane etc

 

[yido_number1]

When Eriksen played well we won, however, imo, we never replaced Moussa Dembele , what I'd give for Jose to have peak Eriksen & Dembele to put in our team

Would certainly be interesting to see what we played like with the peak poch team that finished 2nd with Walker, Toby, Jan, Rose, Dembele, Wanyama, Eriksen, Dele, Son Kane. I wonder if he'd have played the low block with them or gone for it?

 

[McFlash]

With the caveat that it is possible I remember incorrectly, I do believe football.london and Gold posted something about Pochettino not at all being fired just before he was fired. Not taking sides here just more cautioning against pitting the various people providing info against one another when they offer contradicting info.

Not sure about Ally but I know William Ballbag did.
Literally a day or two before he left, Ballbag was saying that there was no chance he was leaving.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

With the greatest respect to Trix Ally has had information years before he was a journalist and would definitely know some of the squad.

Much as I love Ally and came to this site because of his articles around the time, I’m not sure he’d agree with this (though happy to be corrected by any mod who disagrees or the man himself if he’s lurking).

 

[Japhet]

For sure Dele has not been the same player for a long time and I suspect that many of the same people blaming Jose for keeping him out are the same ones that look for any reason to have a go at him; however as he's not going to be leaving and we clearly need something, maybe it couldn't do any harm if Jose is looking at giving him a start.

I think there are obviously elements of 'clutching at straws' in wanting Dele back in the team/squad. Under the circumstances though, he is a goal threat and can spark things into life. I also think it would do Mourinho no harm at all to put his own ego on hold for a bit and extend an olive branch to Dele and Aurier. Whether that happens remains to be seen. He did try hard and succeeded in getting Ndombele 'onside' and I hope he realises we're in a situation where we do all have to pull in the same direction. If he digs his heels in like he did at Man Utd it will end the same way and there won't be too many defending his reputation with 2 on the bounce though.

 

[yido_number1]

It is sad and we did have a plan a few years ago

Unfortunately not buying a single player in 3? consecutive windows fucked us. As predicted by myself and many others. It was an incredibly dangerous and disastrous decision

I believe that just the purchase of Grealish that summer would have been enough to refresh and revitalise our squad and we’d be in a very different place today

Obviously Grealish wasn’t the player he is now back then but there is no reason why he wouldn’t have flourished under Poch and around Kane etc

The current situation is directly attributable to not signing players in those windows and having to make up for it in Poch's last window. We should have had a slow transition away from Dembele and Eriksen instead we had a hard stop and players coming in from overseas trying to learn the league.

 

[C-oops]

No it doesn't. Said it a hundred times already, last 2 games there are zero excuses to be made.

It's not just the last two games where we have played so badly though. The football has been dire for months at a time with a few bursts of entertainment.

 

[Metalhead]

I think there are obviously elements of 'clutching at straws' in wanting Dele back in the team/squad. Under the circumstances though, he is a goal threat and can spark things into life. I also think it would do Mourinho no harm at all to put his own ego on hold for a bit and extend an olive branch to Dele and Aurier. Whether that happens remains to be seen. He did try hard and succeeded in getting Ndombele 'onside' and I hope he realises we're in a situation where we do all have to pull in the same direction. If he digs his heels in like he did at Man Utd it will end the same way and there won't be too many defending his reputation with 2 on the bounce though.

There definitely is an element of clutching at straws. No arguments there.

 

[McFlash]

Doesnt that break lockdown protocol

Could it be classed as work?

 

[Stamford]

If you think the majority of the players mourinho has brought are fine ,then sit back and enjoy.
Of course it depends on what you want and how ambitious you are.If you are talking title challenge or even making it to the top four, you may be disappointed, and let's not kid ourselves, Jose doesn't do long term rebuilds, so I think we are pretty much fucked hence the dross we are witnessing.

I'm not saying I do but I'm saying the argument can be made both ways. I would much prefer Jose buying players than Poch for example as he was so bad in there market. This club isn't winning a title under any manager with these owners in charge so I will be disappointed regardless

 

[morris25]

The old Jose would not go round begging to a player. I imagine levy has told him to sort it or fuck off

 

[Stamford]

So lazy Dele who has won nothing has to be visited by a serial winner to get him back on board. This club is rotten seriously. I think Jose is done now anyway but this is just insane.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Dele - Understand the clamour for him going back into the side considering we can't score, but a classic case of a player getting better than he really is when he is out of the team. He was poor for two years before this, is a bad trainer and thinks he is better than he is. Alli under performed under Poch too for a considerable period let's not forget.

Including him amongst some of our worst players is massively unfair.

Players who have had a decent amount of minutes who at their best still contribute less than Dele has at his worst:

• Sissoko- what use is his power going forward if he gets a nose bleed in the final third, what use is his part in defence if he can’t track a runner, can’t jump and constantly gives away daft free kicks.​
• Bergwijn- has decent athletic, pace SCs power, and obviously good technique, but can’t seem to fashion a chance for a team mate and can’t seem to take a chance when presented to him.​
• Lamela- all the good attitude in the world can’t make up for a lack of basic understanding about when to play a pass, when to try a dribble and when to make a run.​
• Lucas Moura- copy and paste the Bergwijn description.​
• Lo Celso- this one is a bit harsh because of his injuries and how good we have seen him be on occasion, but until he can both stay fit and maintain something near his best level, he does not deserve to be spoken of in higher terms than Dele if we’re discussing actual achievement for this club.​

I’ve only discussed players getting time to perform in midfield/ attack, but if we were talking all players at the club, Aurier, Davies, Doherty and Sanchez have all had ample opportunity to perform this season and are still not not a patch on Dele in terms of what he’s done in recent memory (and I’m taking last season when he was apparently shit, not 3 years ago when he was sublime).

I’m not for a moment saying Dele deserves to be playing right now, only that he’s a long way away from being described amongst ‘some of our worst players’. A long way off indeed.

 

[Trix]

It's not just the last two games where we have played so badly though. The football has been dire for months at a time with a few bursts of entertainment.

As I say I don't believe he thinks we can defend well enough to play more expansive. He's picked more progressive teams on paper and we've not gone into the low block and we've looked worse. Players scrambling around and looking scared to push forward for fear of being hit by a counter.

It's not an easy one to overcome. The CB pairings have only ever looked comfortable in that ultra defensive system, so when they struggle we see the midfield pair dropping deeper to try and help then the forward line take up the space they've left behind. This however isn't the game plan and as such no one really understands what they are doing. This then affects us going forward because the spaces in which they are supposed to operate they aren't there.

This only gets solved by saying fuck it we are going to concede so let's try and score more, reverting to the low block, or getting in CB's that are more comfortable.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Would certainly be interesting to see what we played like with the peak poch team that finished 2nd with Walker, Toby, Jan, Rose, Dembele, Wanyama, Eriksen, Dele, Son Kane. I wonder if he'd have played the low block with them or gone for it?

I think you, me and 99% of other fans know the answer to that question!

 

[rez9000]

Come on mate, are you joking?

Arsenal - 10th - not fulfilling their potential
Chelsea - 7th - not fulfilling their potential
Liverpool - 3rd - not fulfilling their potential

Sir Alex called out his players all the time.

Our players seem to have egos they haven't earned yet, at least Jose has something to back his up with.

Absolutely.

I'm not saying the precise dynamic is being replicated, more that it echoes or resonates with it:

Back in the 60s, shortly after we'd bought Greavsie from AC Milan, he and Cliff Jones were talking about their relative pay. When Cliff told Jimmy how much he was getting, Jimmy convinced Cliff that he deserved more, saying that Cliff was 'the best winger in Europe' and that he should ask Bill Nicholson for a pay rise

So Cliff plucked up the courage and knocked on Bill's door.

Bill Nicholson: ‘What’s up, Cliff?’

Cliff Jones: ‘Well I’ve come in for a rise.’

Nicholson: ‘Oh have you. On what basis do you want to have a rise?’

Jones: ‘I think I’m the best winger in Europe.’

Nicholson: ‘Is that right, son? I’ll tell you now that’s a matter of opinion. On the way out, close the door behind you.’

As the story's been repeated, it's been changed and in other versions Bill tells Cliff to 'fuck off' as opposed to the slightly more polite version related by Jones himself. Now, who would we side with in that scenario - Bill Nicholson, who'd engineered the Double-winning side, or Cliff Jones (who's a lovely man and was a dynamite winger it has to be said and I'm absolutely not seeking to disparage him at all.) who was only one part of it?

A player complaining to Mourinho about his playing time or his being subbed or anything like that - well, Jose can point to his success. When he spoke to Kane about making him explode, it's because he's done it before. When he was at Porto, he turned a group of relatively small names into winners, a couple of them into top internationals.

Sure, times have changed since the sixties - it's a different dynamic, I fully acknowledge, but some things are eternal. Even in modern times, even with the Bosman rule, transfer windows and player power, there's still the authority of the manager. Otherwise, why have one at all? If the players' wishes come first, then dispense with managers altogether and let them manage themselves. And every weekend two random groups of 11 can just scrap it out in an undisciplined free-for-all. That would be 'entertaining', wouldn't it (for those who put their preference for some nebulous, ill-defined and indefinable 'style' over what's best for the club, which is to win things)?

The conclusion to the story about Jones and Nicholson is that Jones ultimately got his pay rise, but only after he'd had an amazing season. Nicholson rewarded his players when he felt they deserved it. Mourinho does that too - if you show him you're committed, if you show him you fight alongside him, not against him, he will give you the Earth if he can. And this isn't me conjecturing - so many of his former players have expressed that sentiment in one form or another. That's man-management: special treatment only after you've done something special.

It is the height of madness to use the likes of Pogba and Shaw, (and I'm sad to say, Dele) as the barometer for Mourinho's man-management abilities. Every time someone says something like, 'he's got form for falling out with players', or 'he can't handle his players' or anything like that, that's really who they're referring to. But one can't actually mention them by name because the result would be gales of laughter at the idea that they're the examples of poor management, when really it's their own attitudes that are far more suspect.

Our current crop of players simply haven't earned the right to complain about anything. Not one of them has won their current club a single thing. When they win something, which Mourinho can give them the tools to do, then they might have a case. But in the meantime, moping around the pitch looking more miserable than Gabriel Jesus would after witnessing a dog rogering his mum to the tune of She'll Be Coming Round the Mountain is simply not on.