Juande Ramos

[fortworthspur]

dunno whats going to happen - but it looks like Ramos is trying to completely overhaul the team, both in terms of personnel and mentality. No more pouring nine men forward and hoping we can outscore them. Problem is, we still dont defend very well. I do think firing him any time soon is a bad idea.

 

[jamesc0le]

ok, i am posting here half jokingly, half deadly serious. ( like the shooting bits in equilibrium last night, that's pretty deadly..)

let's say i'm juande ramos. wow, england's a bit shit. just how much did it rain this summer, that is well shit.

ah well, my lot ain't bad, at least i have a chairman and a director of football that are really on the ball, my squad is nearing perfection.. no wait, scrap that, i'm not gonna lie to myself like i do to those idiot journos, levy and comolli are clowns.

i might aswell let this game they are playing peter out and hopefully i'll back in la liga before you can say ''portly dutchman''. or there's always newcastle, they bought a young spanish striker and they don't even need strikers!


ok, note to myself: better put that darren bent on the bench or he willl keep scoring goals off his backside and foil my great plan.

great idea juande, and i'll ask that Levy to sell bent in january. ( i hope i'm no' still here!?) he's really good at moving players out, well, when he put's his mind to it..
what a clown.

 

[markdadude]

Under Jol even if we did let in 4 goals in a game, we were fun to watch because there was that feeling that we had a good chance of scoring more. WE used to make so many chances - sure we never converted enough of them but we were dangerous and exciting to watch.

Under Ramos im bored and it looks like we've had a midfield vasectomy. Boring and winning might be tolerable at this early stage but I said at the time and still believe we made a big mistake getting rid of jol

Disagree with me all you like but Jol was a joy to listen to post match, and this personality helped him earn the trust and respect of our playyers and he would have stood a much better chance of retaining spurs' best players, eg berbs keane, than someone who speaks to his players through an interpreter

 

[kcmei]

we need to get a working way of playing fast and stick to it

it is the only way we can improve

 

[fac63]

dunno whats going to happen - but it looks like Ramos is trying to completely overhaul the team, both in terms of personnel and mentality. No more pouring nine men forward and hoping we can outscore them. Problem is, we still dont defend very well. I do think firing him any time soon is a bad idea.

Agreed. Unfortunately I find myself saying the same thing that i said after the 'boro game vis-a-vis team selection. It still all seems too speculative at this point. We don't need to be toying with combinations to this extent what with all the new players to the squad and the PL. What we need right now is the best XI to get the points and establish a league position above 20th. I think it was of utmost importance to build on the Chelsea result with a win here, and JR seems to me t be missing the fine balance between squad development and result on the day.

Surely JJ and Modric must have as many minutes possible together at this point in the season? And given the new faces at striker (Pav) and in defense (Corluka) and it being Luka's 3rd game in the league as well as King's absence, then I would've though JJ's inclusion in the middle of the field (instead of the rarely seen Zokora/Hudd pairing) would've been mandatory given the stakes?

And while I recognize there's other influences at work--namely, a congested upcoming schedule and the board's willingness to leave the squad's final shape to the last minute--JR's got to play the hand he's dealt. And today, we needed points in the league. Not some wishful thinking/tinkering while resting people for our next 2 fixtures (the first of which is played over two legs & weeks in which there will be plenty of time to make tactical moves in 180minutes) and Wigan at home.

I just hope the fact that he may be willing to sacrifice league position for cup matches isn't the reason he's earned the tag of cup specialist. For he may find that in the PL you can't take a UEFA spot or--god forbid--a lack of a relegation battle for granted.

 

[chileanspursfan]

-The club needs to give time to a manager in order to cement a process FACT
-But in this process, if there comes a time of abysmal results and the players' morale drops dramatically, the manager has to be sacked in order to fix that FACT (happened to Jol, can happen to Juande as well).
-On Jol, he is a damn good manager, but had to be sacked because the players didn't believe him anymore and they needed to change their habits and routines in order to get rid of the negative morale (can happen to Juande as well)
- The whole summer fiasco definetely killed any of our league aspirations, as the squad is basically entirely new and have to gel, same old story. The fact that the board didn't exercise a proper plan b to replace Keane and Berba, and that we still look shaky at the back and lack a leading figure in midfield, has to be blamed on the board and a head will have to roll in order to prove this. If not, it will be only a tacit agreement of our inferior position to the likes of the top 4 and man city and both the manager nor the players will have faith in them. (Nor will us!!!)
- The cups will be once again our opportunity for redemption, specially the Uefa. We are still a cup team, we have to admit that and start building from this. Aston Villa and Everton are above us now in most aspects.

 

[nidge]

The only group of fans I dislike more that the sack the board/manager/anyone connected to the club brigade is the blind faith brigade that believe that everything will be fine in the end, well sometimes it won't be ok in the end.

 

[pagevee]

Look I fully congratulate Ramos for guiding us to that trophy, in which I recognise that we would have not won under Jol, but have we actually improved?

Europe through 5th in the league >>>>> Europe through Carling Cup.

Europe is Europe regardless of how you get there. Unless you are talking CL compared to Uefa cup.

Question, which history is better?

Club Honours

Football League Champions
1904-05; 1906-07; 1908-09; 1926-27

FA Premier League Runners-up
1996; 1997

FL Division One (Two) Champions
1993

FL Division Two Champions
1965

FL promotion to top division
1898; 1948; 1984; 1965; 1993

FA Cup Winners
1910 v Barnsley, Crystal Palace & Goodison Park
1924 v Aston Villa, Wembley Stadium
1932 v Arsenal, Wembley Stadium
1951 v Blackpool, Wembley Stadium
1952 v Arsenal, Wembley Stadium
1955 v Manchester City

FA Cup Runners-up
1905 v Aston Villa, Crystal Palace
1906 v Everton, Crystal Palace
1908 v Wolverhampton Wanderers, Crystal Palace
1911 v Bradford City, Crystal Palace & Old Trafford
1974 v Liverpool, Wembley Stadium
1998 v Arsenal, Wembley Stadium
1999 v Manchester United, Wembley Stadium

Football League Cup Runners-Up
1976 v Manchester City, Wembley Stadium

FA Charity Shield Winners
1909 v Northampton Town

FA Charity Shield Runners-up
1932, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1996

European Fairs Cup Winners
1969 v Ujpesti Dosza, St James' Park & Ujpest

ICFC/UEFA Cup entry
1968/69, 1969/70, 1970/71, 1977/78, 1994/95, 1996/97, 1999/00, 2003/04,2004/05

UEFA Champions League entry
1997/98 2002/2003

European Cup Winners Cup entry
1998/99

Texaco Cup Winners
1974; 1975

Anglo-Italian Cup Winners
1973

or....

FIRST TEAM
Football League Champions 1950-51, 1960-61
F.A.Cup Winners 1900-01, 1920-21, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1966-67, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1990-91
Football League Cup Winners 1970-71, 1972-73, 1998-99, 2007-08
European Cup-Winners Cup Winners 1962-63
UEFA Cup Winners 1971-72, 1983-84
Football League Division Two Champions 1919-20, 1949-50
Southern League Champions 1899-1900.
Western League Champions 1903-04.
London League Premier Division Champions 1902-03.
Football League South 'C' Division Champions 1939-40.
Football League South Champions 1943-44, 1944-45.
Southern District Charity Cup Winners 1901-02, 1904-05 (joint), 1906-07.
London Challenge Cup Winners 1910-11, 1928-29.
F.A.Charity Shield Winners 1920-21, 1951-52, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1967-68 (joint), 1981-82 (joint), 1991-92 (joint).
Dewar Shield Winners 1901-02, 1933-34, 1934-35.
Anglo-Italian League Cup-Winners Cup Winners 1971-72.
Norwich Charity Cup Winners 1919-20
Norwich Hospital Charity Cup Winners 1946-47, 1949-50 (joint).
Ipswich Hospital Charity Cup Winners 1951-52 (joint).
Costa Del Sol Tournament Winners 1965,1966.
Nolia Cup (Sweden) Winners 1977.
Japan Cup Winners 1979.
Sun International Challenge Trophy (Swaziland) Winners 1983.
Peace Cup (Korea) Winners 2005.

--------------

My main point is that the first list has finished higher in league multiple times than Spurs. Unfortunately for them, they haven't won fuck all and brag about European qualifications and runners-up medals. Is that seriously the attitude you want THFC to take? Seriously?

You may, but I sure as hell don't. I'd rather win a trophy and get into Uefa than qualify by league. Your comparison of placing 5th in league being more important than winning silverware is wide of the mark in the long run. I realize it shows 'intent' and is a better benchmark for challenging the top four and for titles... Too bad winning silverware is a title, regardless of the mickey mouse standard. It shows intent that we beat Chelski for that Title while Pompey beat who in the final? Pool....no, Ar5ena1....no. They beat Cardiff City. Which match do you think was harder?

FA cup for Pompey (backwards): Cardiff City, West Brom, Man U, Preston North End, Plymouth, and Ipswitch.
Carling Cup for Spurs (Backwards): Chelski, Ar5ena1, Man City, Blackpool, and Middlesborough.

This was done while competing in Europe. Which is a better accomplishment? I don't mean which is more prestigious, which is a bigger purse, which is not made fun of. On the pitch, what was a bigger accomplishment. Our run through the CC, 11th in league, and Uefa run or Pompey's run to the FA Cup and a 8th place finish.

I am done with my rant and not sure if it makes sense anymore. I could care less right now anyways. Regardless, some of you need to quit your bitching. It is only 4 matches, 3 shitty matches and 1 decent match at the Bridge I know. But still only 4 matches:bang::bang::bang:

Calling for the Coaches head after 4 matches is absurd. I thought some of you learned from Jol's demise that turmoil breeds turmoil. Leave the players and staff be until January and Support Them ALL!

I'm off for another break from posting now. Brief return spawned by bitching.

 

[Michey]

Ramos still isn't saying anything on radio or TV

Cred to him for not speaking to British media......who the hell has ever gained anything from that.

Fuck the media and keep working with the team

 

[TheBigMatch]

It's not just the last 4 games these mediocre performances have been going on for much longer than than that.

Had Steed not stopped that ball from going wide and kicked it into his own net to gift Sevilla the UEFA Cup then Sevilla would not have won the UEFA Cup in 2007.

However Ramos still has the cup trophy winning record of a very good manager, but he wouuld need to get his act together rapido for Spurs. His first 31 odd league games have not been very impressive. He has been given his way with the dismantling of Jol's Top 5 side; and he needs to make it count.

Defeat in the UEFA Cup is not an option.

I thought that the League Cup didn't matter but the way the league is going we may need it again.

How those great performances against arsenal and chelsea in the league and cup can sit alongside the dreadful home performance against PSV and the relegiation league performances, I do not understand.

Ramos has a record of leaving clubs. Hopefully he hangs around long enough to make Spurs work for him.

 

[TheBigMatch]

"I'm not going to carry out an assessment after just one game. Don't forget this is the same squad that beat Roma 5-1.

"We've had good results against Celtic and Roma - I know that was in pre-season but they were great games and we have very good footballers."

Please tell me he was misquoted!

 

[DC_Boy]

Europe through 5th in the league >>>>> Europe through Carling Cup.

fair comment - but I disagree - give me the trophy any day (given that we also finished 11th - of course a relegation place would be different - but that wasn't what happened)

 

[flatback4]

A few questions to those who maintain Ramos will eventually get it right.
How ?
What's suddenly going to stop going wrong and start going right ?
Stuff this rotation business - what's his best team ?
And what formation should they be playing ?
How many games will it take before the posts that say 'Give the man a chance - the season's only 4 games old' start to wake up to the fact we've made the worst Prem start in Tottenham's history ? And as we saw last season, a terrible start is bloody difficult to recover from.
At what point will Levy reach for the chequebook and write out the payoff ?
And will Poyet - the new version of Martin Jol to Ramos's Santini - be any more successful ? (Because sure as hell, they can't go tapping-up yet another manager and start yet another team rebuilding exercise).

As another poster's made the point, Ramos's points-per-game record is only a touch better than Christian Gross. Nuff said. Get it right and do it quick. The clock's ticking.

 

[jimmy-jojo]

"I'm not going to carry out an assessment after just one game. Don't forget this is the same squad that beat Roma 5-1.

"We've had good results against Celtic and Roma - I know that was in pre-season but they were great games and we have very good footballers."

Please tell me he was misquoted!

What exactly is wrong with those quotes?

 

[Wsussexspur]

at the moment sacking ramos isn't an option not four games into the season, we will become a bigger laughting stock than Newcastle if we do that! Also let's face it with the way the board went about getting ramos there is no way they can sack ramos! We have basically new squad this season and also have a few talented young players who are have joined is in the summer and are new the premiership and will take time to settle! Unfortuntley we have to realise that this is another season of transition!

 

[Dunc2610]

So let me understand you here.....

I understand your frustration but this is just yet another knee jerk reaction.

But is it just a knee jerk reaction though, or is it the feeling that despite money spent, we've come no further than the Carling Cup win last season?

I'm what most of you would call an armchair supporter, i don't get to see the boys play much be it on telly or in person, so i can't say too much, what i can say is that once again, another decent pre season goes by, when we spend yet more money and claim yet another top four finish is on the cards, and once again we look mediocre.

I woke up this morning feeling slightly embarassed, and what i can only be described as feeling tetchy and i'm usually the first one to say "it's only a game, why get so worked up about it?"

If i were another Prem' side, i'd not be worried about playing the "Mighty" Spurs, home or away. We're doing worse than the newly promoted sides, how can any positives be taken from that.

We've a manager that appears to not want to speak to the British Media in the native tongue, which i'd say was part of his remit, and a team that once again for another long frustrating season is gelling/building/etc/etc. How many seasons will pass before anything happens? Are we perhaps destined to languish amongst the Sunderlands/Newcastles/Evertons?

 

[Bromavinci]

I will give Jamos the benefit of the doubt. Yes we were pretty bloody ordinary last night and the team selection so far this campaign has raised one or two eyebrows BUT we cannot ignore this team is completely overhauled and the tactics and the shape seem to be new concepts for the players (who obviously have real trouble communicating with each other).

There is no doubt we have assembled a very very talented squad with a view to building a consistently high performing team to not only make a run at CL but to stay there when we get there. There alot of variables that come into play but my big concern right now is will we struggle to even make UEFA next year? Which will mean struggling to attract the big signings we need, and even possibly seeing some of the young guns looking elsewhere (eg Bale).

I trust that Juande knows what he is doing, well certainly more than every single one of you reading this so I am not going to second guess the guy, BUT as I said if his 'new' team and 'new approach takes too long to click we could find ourselves in deeper dogshite then we think (wont get relegated but could find ourselves in that mid/lower bracket for a few years yet)

 

[thebenjamin]

Why do people say 'knee jerk'? Since January we have been in relegation form. We don't score goals, we concede a lot of goals. Zokora and Dawson have been given pay rises and new contracts. The team is disorganised, players are played out of position. The only 2 reasons we stayed in the Premiership last season have been sold off as soon as we could get decent money for them. We haven't filled the holes that have been in our squad for years, again. We're not getting better, we're getting worse.

Why is it knee jerk to point out what is clearly the case and has been for months?

 

[Damian99]

It's not just "one game" or "four games". Lets look at the whole picture, the facts.

It appears Ramos has had 31 games in all competitions? PL31 W10 D10 L11?

If they were league games only, Ramos would have accumulated 40 points with seven games left. That would leave us close to relegation with a very expensive, talented squad. Between Levy DC and JR they have dismantled a squad that achieved back to bsck 5th place in the league. JR now has the squad he wants? One that he believes should better those 5th places and yet we are no better infact worse than under Jol. The same mistakes i.e poor defensively and the weak areas still remain, they have not been addressed, still.

JR won us the CC last year, but wasnt that with Jols team? The one they have slowly dismantled?. I really hope the men that know have made the right decisions, but im having major doubts.

 

[gibbs131]

We have to stick with him. And sack whoever made us the most unbalanced squad in the Prem with ridiculous transfer dealings.