Kyle Walker

[bomberH]

Lots of people do things that will not benefit them, it doesn't make them unintelligent. Keane was obsessed with winning and wanted things done the right way. He hated that the Irish were seen as a joke. He had conversation with Mccarthy saying he wanted them to prepare and be the ultimate professionals in terms of diet and match preparation. Mccarthy was in agreement. Then on getting there it was amateur hour again so he left.

Some people will see this as taking a stand, others as being short-sighted, some him being a control freak. But people taking a stand is not connected to intelligence.

A lot of people fuck up their entire lives. It can come down to mentality and numerous other issues.

All I have said is he is not unintelligent in the big scheme of things. I don't feel I have to defend his every move just because I don't think him getting a lot of red cards is down to his intelligence.

I do agree that all the red cards (bar throwing the ball at Shearer’s head and IMO the Haaland incident) weren’t anything to do with intelligence or lack of. But he’s called out Walker as an ‘idiot’ for giving a penalty away. Red cards lose games too. Sometimes he got himself sent off because he was an idiot. As I said, it doesn’t really matter if it’s lack of intelligence or an act of stupidity or just him being an evil bastard, because he’s still being hypocritical as his actions have cost his team points in the past. I think we’d probably agree that while not unintelligent, then some of his actions have often been ‘idiotic’ on and off the pitch. He got away with a lot more too because he was captain of Man Utd and a winner.

Throwing the ball at someone’s head is much more stupid than the foul Walker made to give the penalty away last week. If Walker has brain farts on and off the pitch then no one can deny Keane has the same. So, like many pundits. He’s a bit of a hypocrite that’s all (though no one would dare bring it up in the studio). If Walker appeared as a pundit next to him one day, he’d have every right to say to Keane that he’s a hypocrite and has done many more idiotic things than Walker has.

With that said, I think it goes without saying that 99% of Spurs supporters would’ve loved him here too. Best in the Prem in his position for years.

 

[dontcallme]

I do agree that all the red cards (bar throwing the ball at Shearer’s head and IMO the Haaland incident) weren’t anything to do with intelligence or lack of. But he’s called out Walker as an ‘idiot’ for giving a penalty away. Red cards lose games too. Sometimes he got himself sent off because he was an idiot. As I said, it doesn’t really matter if it’s lack of intelligence or an act of stupidity or just him being an evil bastard, because he’s still being hypocritical as his actions have cost his team points in the past. I think we’d probably agree that while not unintelligent, then some of his actions have often been ‘idiotic’ on and off the pitch. He got away with a lot more too because he was captain of Man Utd and a winner.

Throwing the ball at someone’s head is much more stupid than the foul Walker made to give the penalty away last week. If Walker has brain farts on and off the pitch then no one can deny Keane has the same. So, like many pundits. He’s a bit of a hypocrite that’s all (though no one would dare bring it up in the studio). If Walker appeared as a pundit next to him one day, he’d have every right to say to Keane that he’s a hypocrite and has done many more idiotic things than Walker has.

With that said, I think it goes without saying that 99% of Spurs supporters would’ve loved him here too. Best in the Prem in his position for years.

If you are an idiot and you call someone else an idiot, this is not hypocritical.

Keane is a pundit and calls situations and players actions. That's his job.

 

[bomberH]

If you are an idiot and you call someone else an idiot, this is not hypocritical.

Keane is a pundit and calls situations and players actions. That's his job.

? Yes you are. I’m pretty sure that’s the actual definition of hypocrisy. Unless he’s admitted publicly that he himself is also an idiot in which case it’s much more acceptable.

If Keane cheated with his brother’s wife and then called out Giggs for doing the same, he’s a hypocrite. I accept he’s a pundit and it’s his job to talk about stuff on the pitch, but a) he doesn’t have to call Walker an idiot, he can still discuss the penalty without calling him names... and b) he’s still a hypocrite because he’s also an idiot and has done idiotic things on the pitch that has cost games. If he had said what Walker did was idiotic, that would’ve been a lot better than actually calling him an idiot.

I’m not sure why we’re arguing, I enjoy Keane and him laying into Walker was a really interesting watch - and he was one of my favourite non Spurs players. But he’s also been an idiot in the past.

 

[dontcallme]

? Yes you are. I’m pretty sure that’s the actual definition of hypocrisy. Unless he’s admitted publicly that he himself is also an idiot in which case it’s much more acceptable.

If Keane cheated with his brother’s wife and then called out Giggs for doing the same, he’s a hypocrite. I accept he’s a pundit and it’s his job to talk about stuff on the pitch, but a) he doesn’t have to call Walker an idiot, he can still discuss the penalty without calling him names... and b) he’s still a hypocrite because he’s also an idiot and has done idiotic things on the pitch that has cost games. If he had said what Walker did was idiotic, that would’ve been a lot better than actually calling him an idiot.

I’m not sure why we’re arguing, I enjoy Keane and him laying into Walker was a really interesting watch - and he was one of my favourite non Spurs players. But he’s also been an idiot in the past.

Nope. Hypocrisy is claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case. So you can be stupid and call someone else stupid and this is not hypocritical.

The Giggs scenario is the correct usage of hypocrisy. But notice your only example of Keane being a hypocrite is a hypothetical situation that you created.

If Keane said he would never do the things Walker has done on the pitch you could call him a liar or a hypocrite but once again he hasn't so no basis for calling him a hypocrite.

 

[fortworthspur]

Judging intelligence by the number of red cards is one of the worst systems I can think of.

getting yourself disqualified time and time again lets your team down more than conceding a pen, IMO.

 

[bomberH]

Nope. Hypocrisy is claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case. So you can be stupid and call someone else stupid and this is not hypocritical.

The Giggs scenario is the correct usage of hypocrisy. But notice your only example of Keane being a hypocrite is a hypothetical situation that you created.

If Keane said he would never do the things Walker has done on the pitch you could call him a liar or a hypocrite but once again he hasn't so no basis for calling him a hypocrite.

Another (also correct) definition of hypocrisy is ‘the practice of engaging in the same behaviour or activity for which one criticises another’.

Keane is a pundit and expected to give opinions sure, but I believe my points still stand.

 

[dontcallme]

getting yourself disqualified time and time again lets your team down more than conceding a pen, IMO.

Still doesn't mean he's unintelligent. Ill-disciplined possibly.

 

[fortworthspur]

I'd say Walker is among the most underrated english players of the last 5-6 years. Strange to see the amount of stick he gets.

Total moron off the pitch, mind.

only by fans. he's first choice for every manager he's ever played for.

 

[dontcallme]

Another (also correct) definition of hypocrisy is ‘the practice of engaging in the same behaviour or activity for which one criticises another’.

Keane is a pundit and expected to give opinions sure, but I believe my points still stand.

Saying someone is an idiot is not a behaviour or an activity. Hence I can think myself an idiot and call someone else an idiot and not be a hypocrite.

 

[fortworthspur]

Still doesn't mean he's unintelligent. Ill-disciplined possibly.

he called Walker an idiot and "car crash" for making repeated mistakes. 13 red cards are repeated mistakes. he wasnt talking about Walker's command of trigonometry.

 

[dontcallme]

he called Walker an idiot and "car crash" for making repeated mistakes. 13 red cards are repeated mistakes. he wasnt talking about Walker's command of trigonometry.

Aggressive midfielders are going to pick up cards. Not all of them will have been mistakes.

Trying to compare Keane's on-field actions with Walker's is very strange.

Keane was super aggressive and dominant. At times this spilled over. Walker is extremely athletic but makes silly mistakes and switches off.

Trying to compare the two just doesn't work.

 

[fortworthspur]

Aggressive midfielders are going to pick up cards. Not all of them will have been mistakes.

Trying to compare Keane's on-field actions with Walker's is very strange.

Keane was super aggressive and dominant. At times this spilled over. Walker is extremely athletic but makes silly mistakes and switches off.

Trying to compare the two just doesn't work.

for you.

 

[dontcallme]

for you.

Well obviously. Hardly a fucking fact is it?

 

[fortworthspur]

Well obviously. Hardly a fucking fact is it?

you lost me. Absent IQ tests for the both of them we arent dealing in facts as to whether either qualifies as an "idiot".

 

[dontcallme]

you lost me. Absent IQ tests for the both of them we arent dealing in facts as to whether either qualifies as an "idiot".

It doesn't surprise me that I lost you.

It's not difficult. Kyle Walker had a brain fart and gave away a penalty. Roy Keane as a pundit called him an idiot.

For whatever reason people are now trying to paint Roy Keane as a hypocrite for saying this.

They are comparing Keane's thuggish actions with Walker's brainfarts like they are the same thing.

I have reasoned they are not the same thing. It shouldn't need explaining that this is my opinion on the situation and not a fact.

 

[bomberH]

Keane’s red cards below:

Some of these are 2 yellows. He has 100% said on tv (this season I think , though I can’t remember which game - it may have even been the back end of last season) that when you’re on a yellow card, you can’t go in with a reckless tackle. That’s pretty hypocritical once you watch the vid. I’d also call the Shearer incident a brain fart. It’s not a particularly bad kind of hypocrisy because it’s his job as a pundit to say stuff like that and he now plays on it and it’s his thing.

But honestly, this is just about words. The challenges are thuggish, stupid, idiotic, dangerous, brain farty and mistimed - ALL those descriptions are correct so we’re discussing a technicality on the word ‘unintelligent’. None of it really matters, I’m sure we’d all agree that he was a horrible dirty **** when he wanted to be but is also a reasonably entertaining pundit even if it’s sometimes for the wrong reasons.

 

[fortworthspur]

Keane’s red cards below:

Some of these are 2 yellows. He has 100% said on tv (this season I think , though I can’t remember which game - it may have even been the back end of last season) that when you’re on a yellow card, you can’t go in with a reckless tackle. That’s pretty hypocritical once you watch the vid. I’d also call the Shearer incident a brain fart. It’s not a particularly bad kind of hypocrisy because it’s his job as a pundit to say stuff like that and he now plays on it and it’s his thing.

But honestly, this is just about words. The challenges are thuggish, stupid, idiotic, dangerous, brain farty and mistimed - ALL those descriptions are correct so we’re discussing a technicality on the word ‘unintelligent’. None of it really matters, I’m sure we’d all agree that he was a horrible dirty **** when he wanted to be but is also a reasonably entertaining pundit even if it’s sometimes for the wrong reasons.

hypocrisy is Keane insulting Viera for playing for France rather than Senegal after leaving Ireland in the lurch in 2002 in his only chance to play in a World Cup. I'll say this for Keane - he was smart enough to stick with football. Otherwise he'd be dead or in prison now. But I dont think he's smart enough to know that.

 

[dontcallme]

hypocrisy is Keane insulting Viera for playing for France rather than Senegal after leaving Ireland in the lurch in 2002 in his only chance to play in a World Cup. I'll say this for Keane - he was smart enough to stick with football. Otherwise he'd be dead or in prison now. But I dont think he's smart enough to know that.

Once again, that isn't hypocrisy.

If Keane was English and had an Irish grandparent. This would be hypocritical and he is doing something he has criticised another for.

But walking out on Ireland because he believed their setup was a joke is not the same as saying someone born in one country shouldn't be playing for another. They're just not the same thing.

I have no idea why the modern world is full of people determined to call anyone they disagree with a hypocrite, but most of the times they don't appear to know what the word means.

 

[fortworthspur]

Once again, that isn't hypocrisy.

If Keane was English and had an Irish grandparent. This would be hypocritical and he is doing something he has criticised another for.

But walking out on Ireland because he believed their setup was a joke is not the same as saying someone born in one country shouldn't be playing for another. They're just not the same thing.

I have no idea why the modern world is full of people determined to call anyone they disagree with a hypocrite, but most of the times they don't appear to know what the word means.

it is the same thing. he refused to play for the country of his birth in an international tournament. you are determined to be pedantic.

 

[dontcallme]

it is the same thing. he refused to play for the country of his birth in an international tournament. you are determined to be pedantic.

Nope. Keane criticised Vieira for playing for France over the country of his birth. Keane played for the country of his birth..

He didn't play in an international tournament for an entirely different reason.

Not the same thing, not hypocrisy.

Pedantic possibly but why some are so obsessed with branding people as hypocrites, usually incorrectly, is beyond me.