Lazio Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

[Mackay6]

So your happy with our only decent showings recently being Maribor at home and 20 mins at the Emirates?

No, I was just talking about those particular events.

 

[Stavrogin]

Man I wish people would stop whining about what Redknapp would have done. Criticise AVB all you want (although I don't think he did much wrong from a tactical point of view yesterday), but please stop comparing him to HR. He's gone, he ain't coming back, get over it.

No. Talking about Redknapp is actually relevant here, as the situation is similar to the last weeks of Ramos in quite a few ways. Good players not playing well; rudderless, disjointed team, etc. The past has shown these things aren't necessarily that hard to fix. Plus it's illustrative of where AVB seems to be going wrong so far.

Saying we don't have a good squad (which isn't remotely true) doesn't mean the players should play badly in and of themselves.

 

[Nocando]

So your happy with our only decent showings recently being Maribor at home and 20 mins at the Emirates?

I know you asked Mackay but I think it applies to me also. I am not overly happy. I'm not happy about a lot of things (but that's a different story) but whilst these weren't the type of performances that I hoped for and which have been served up under Harry, we have a new regime now and we can't expect to immediately default to world class performances against the some of the best teams in the world. Things take time and the games against Arsenal (first 20) and Maribor highlight improvements. As did Lazio, to a degree, as to me it showed something we struggle with and that's resilience.

Some people expect instant results and that simply wont happen, we have to be patient and we have to let AVB learn and develop the team his own way without too much pressure from the fans. I wasn't overjoyed at losing Harry (although I accepted some of his flaws but overall I think he was a fantastic manager for us which shouldn't be forgotten when defending AVB - which seems a trait on here you're either pro Harry and anti AVB or vice versa) and I was skeptical about AVB.

Losing Modric was a given so I wasn't bothered but I do hold AVB to account as much as Levy (another thing people seem to forget) for losing VDV. VDV was a special player we should have done all in our power to hold onto.

Anyway I (as I always do) accepted that after a while and looked ahead to the 'new' Spurs. It's all about AVB and Tottenham and helping him by giving him as much support and as much objectiveness as possible. However I do accept he isn't past being criticised and that should occur, as long as it is constructive and doesn't involve agendas, such as: proving someone was 'right', as they didn't want him and contrary to this, we don't want people blindly defending him. However our opinion as a fan should come last and the support should come first. This often isn't the case and I felt this attitude transcended down against Wigan. The team had no chance from the start (and this is why I am such a staunch supporter of the 1882 movement).

Going back to the point (that was all relevant believe it or not) we need to scratch all what has happened from our minds and focus on this new project under AVB. He's obviously got plans and formations, and some things have worked and some things haven't. I can see what he is trying to do (although I don't always agree) and whilst I don't appreciate stubbornness and refusal to concede when he is wrong (reminds me of Hoddle and 3-5-2 without Ziege and Carr) I do appreciate this belief and confidence in getting us playing in a different way.

Again, whilst it hasn't been revolutionary there has been flashes of bits and we simply have to look at the good and take that away, which I feel there was a few good things against Lazio which are being overshadowed by us not producing a scintillating performance. I'm thinking of the bigger picture and that resilience. I certainly don't want to see us going back to the performance I witnessed against Wigan at home. If this means lightly putting the bad to oneside (without being blind) in order to concentrate on the positives, then so be it.

 

[hodsgod]

I don't but its not fucking rocket science is it? unless you believe he's sending them out there to not press, and play dull and unimaginative football.

The point is, I don't know and you don't know what he is instructing them to do, and therefore we don't know whether they are following his instructions or not.

We don't know if he is over complicating the team instructions, he has been accused of this in the past. It just may not be the players fault. Something is clearly wrong though.

 

[hodsgod]

Couldn't agree more, I mean do we all come on here and say 'what about if we still had Gazza. Lineker, Waddle, Hoddle and the likes'? 'what would they have done'? Harry is part of the history of the club which has now, like the others I have stated, moved on...get behind what we have and try to help the side progress up the table.

No one talks about those players, but people are still talking about Modrich, VDV and King, they all left in the same period as Harry, and that is why people are still mentioning Harry and them. It is History, but it's recent history.

 

[mattstev2000]

No. Talking about Redknapp is actually relevant here, as the situation is similar to the last weeks of Ramos in quite a few ways. Good players not playing well; rudderless, disjointed team, etc. The past has shown these things aren't necessarily that hard to fix. Plus it's illustrative of where AVB seems to be going wrong so far.

Saying we don't have a good squad (which isn't remotely true) doesn't mean the players should play badly in and of themselves.

Redknapp isn't relevant. He isn't coming back and the situation with Ramos and AVB is very different. You saying he's relevant and comparing the current situation with the Ramos problems implies that you think the solution to our current problems is to sack AVB and employ a Redknapp esque manager which clearly it isn't. Also, Ramos had a better quality squad than AVB's got and had a seeming unwillingness to improve his ability to communicate with the squad.

Also if you think our squad is really good then great, I disagree entirely. The second you step out of the first 11 then the majority of what's left are players who are injury prone, inexperience, inconsistent or mediocre.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

No one talks about those players, but people are still talking about Modrich, VDV and King, they all left in the same period as Harry, and that is why people are still mentioning Harry and them. It is History, but it's recent history.

I don't know who that is...

 

[Stavrogin]

The point is, I don't know and you don't know what he is instructing them to do, and therefore we don't know whether they are following his instructions or not.

We don't know if he is over complicating the team instructions, he has been accused of this in the past. It just may not be the players fault. Something is clearly wrong though.

This is true. A lot of people are defending AVB based on these unknowables. His past performance is not so supreme that you can default to saying 'oh well, the players are too stupid to follow his instructions.' You need to keep an open mind with such a young manager.

Something is wrong - I'd say the essence of the problem is that AVB hasn't made much impact on this squad/team. You could compare to Redknapp as we did earlier, or even Rodgers at Liverpool. He may not have done fantastically well, but you can see how he's tried to change the way they play.

Rodgers got Allen, does AVB need Moutinho? I'm not sure a £30m superstar should be a prerequisite for making your mark.

So that's the crux of the real problem - that he's just not making an impact, getting a grip on the team. There have been injuries but it doesn't feel much groundwork has been done so far. The pressing we saw briefly at Newcastle seems to be a blip. There's no player who has come to the fore.

But now's the time, a run of winnable games, Dembele back, Carroll and Lloris coming into the team, Parker on the horizon; he's had a good amount of time with the squad - we need to see something now.

 

[Stavrogin]

Redknapp isn't relevant. He isn't coming back and the situation with Ramos and AVB is very different. You saying he's relevant and comparing the current situation with the Ramos problems implies that you think the solution to our current problems is to sack AVB and employ a Redknapp esque manager which clearly it isn't. Also, Ramos had a better quality squad than AVB's got and had a seeming unwillingness to improve his ability to communicate with the squad.

Also if you think our squad is really good then great, I disagree entirely. The second you step out of the first 11 then the majority of what's left are players who are injury prone, inexperience, inconsistent or mediocre.

No. It's completely relevant. How can you even think for a second it's not? Unless you completely misunderstand the point people are making or the principle of speculating about solutions to problems.

Similarly, I didn't say the squad was good (although it is) I said it wasn't an excuse for players playing as badly as they have been.

 

[mattstev2000]

Similarly, I didn't say the squad was good (although it is) I said it wasn't an excuse for players playing as badly as they have been.

Putting aside whether you think it's good or not, you don't honestly think that having a abundance of bad or mediocre players in the team is a good excuse for bad or mediocre performances? In which case, agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[tottenham28]

No one talks about those players, but people are still talking about Modrich, VDV and King, they all left in the same period as Harry, and that is why people are still mentioning Harry and them. It is History, but it's recent history.

Again, its just the same for me. I don't spend my time quoting what if Modric that and what if VDV or King this. We don't have any of those players or the manager and yet people go on and on about them. I just find it annoying that people keep bringing them up in regards to what they would/could have brought to the current side when it is so obvious, they can't.

Fair enough, we can and will always reminisce but at the end of the day, we have what we now have and people just have to put up with it and stop moaning their bollocks off as it is just repetitive and boring.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

You very well may have, but not against Lazio away from home. Do you honestly think Stoke or QPR would have put up a better performance than us last night?

Peterborough United would have put in a better performance...........................

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

We simply do not have as good a players this season and that is no fault of AVB's.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that the players we have and AVB sanctioned before he signed a contract cannot play football.

How much more money does Levy have to spend before we can give the likes of Wigan, Norwich and West Brom a game ...30, 40 million?

 

[shelfboy68]

I know you asked Mackay but I think it applies to me also. I am not overly happy. I'm not happy about a lot of things (but that's a different story) but whilst these weren't the type of performances that I hoped for and which have been served up under Harry, we have a new regime now and we can't expect to immediately default to world class performances against the some of the best teams in the world. Things take time and the games against Arsenal (first 20) and Maribor highlight improvements. As did Lazio, to a degree, as to me it showed something we struggle with and that's resilience.

Some people expect instant results and that simply wont happen, we have to be patient and we have to let AVB learn and develop the team his own way without too much pressure from the fans. I wasn't overjoyed at losing Harry (although I accepted some of his flaws but overall I think he was a fantastic manager for us which shouldn't be forgotten when defending AVB - which seems a trait on here you're either pro Harry and anti AVB or vice versa) and I was skeptical about AVB.

Losing Modric was a given so I wasn't bothered but I do hold AVB to account as much as Levy (another thing people seem to forget) for losing VDV. VDV was a special player we should have done all in our power to hold onto.

Anyway I (as I always do) accepted that after a while and looked ahead to the 'new' Spurs. It's all about AVB and Tottenham and helping him by giving him as much support and as much objectiveness as possible. However I do accept he isn't past being criticised and that should occur, as long as it is constructive and doesn't involve agendas, such as: proving someone was 'right', as they didn't want him and contrary to this, we don't want people blindly defending him. However our opinion as a fan should come last and the support should come first. This often isn't the case and I felt this attitude transcended down against Wigan. The team had no chance from the start (and this is why I am such a staunch supporter of the 1882 movement).

Going back to the point (that was all relevant believe it or not) we need to scratch all what has happened from our minds and focus on this new project under AVB. He's obviously got plans and formations, and some things have worked and some things haven't. I can see what he is trying to do (although I don't always agree) and whilst I don't appreciate stubbornness and refusal to concede when he is wrong (reminds me of Hoddle and 3-5-2 without Ziege and Carr) I do appreciate this belief and confidence in getting us playing in a different way.

Again, whilst it hasn't been revolutionary there has been flashes of bits and we simply have to look at the good and take that away, which I feel there was a few good things against Lazio which are being overshadowed by us not producing a scintillating performance. I'm thinking of the bigger picture and that resilience. I certainly don't want to see us going back to the performance I witnessed against Wigan at home. If this means lightly putting the bad to oneside (without being blind) in order to concentrate on the positives, then so be it.

It's very difficult to find middle ground on the subject of whether to criticise or not as if you point out any tactical or poor decision making o here you get some who just troll through giving neg reps.

But if you say all is well with the current set up including our chairmans approach to club affairs etc then you get some asking are you watching the same as everyone else so where do you start and end with the constructive stuff.

As for resilience shown last night it's fair to say that if it wasn't for a switched on lloris and an off night for the lazio forward line we would probably be chatting about a 3/4 nil defeat last night and that is not me being negative before any accuses.

 

[Toela65]

No. Talking about Redknapp is actually relevant here, as the situation is similar to the last weeks of Ramos in quite a few ways. Good players not playing well; rudderless, disjointed team, etc. The past has shown these things aren't necessarily that hard to fix. Plus it's illustrative of where AVB seems to be going wrong so far.

Saying we don't have a good squad (which isn't remotely true) doesn't mean the players should play badly in and of themselves.

With the injuries AVB has been lumbered with the squad left isn't fantastic to be fair. You have to give him that no matter how much people may not like him or not be happy with him.

There are some mitigating circumstances that need to be taken into account.

 

[shelfboy68]

With the injuries AVB has been lumbered with the squad left isn't fantastic to be fair. You have to give him that no matter how much people may not like him or not be happy with him.

There are some mitigating circumstances that need to be taken into account.

You are right we have had injuries and that plus he was let down with transfer activity in the summer and with January looming he will have to make do with some freebies.

But I think avb could help himself more by working with that defence and trying to plug those alarming gaps.

A good defence is a solid platform in which he can build the rest of the team around but while we contine to ship goals for fun it makes his job harder.

 

[thinktank]

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/gif-bale-goal-wrongly-disallowed-for-offside/

Wouldn't mind seeing a bit more of this kind of play!

That ball from Carroll was magnificent.

 

[Mighty Spurs]

Just wondering, who would we be able to get that you would be happy with for manager?

A manager who knows what he is doing and plays the formation we play best.