- Oct 17, 2006
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- #101
We have played tougher away games. I think a lot of people (probably players as well) worry about the "name" rather than the Man Utd team as it is now post Fergy.
Match Threads Man Utd vs Spurs
- Thread starter Bulletspur
- Start date
- Date
- Jan 14, 2024
- KO Time
- 4.30 pm
- Score
-
2-2
Reece_Spurs
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- Sep 10, 2011
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We've not really been taken apart by anyone those season. Even Brighton we could easily have gotten a draw.
I watched the villa game, they did well to come back to Villa arent great away from home and they struggle after 60 minutes.
I get your point but I'm extremely surprised they're favourites with he bookies. Honestly think we'll beat them by 2.
ComfortablyNumb
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- Jun 28, 2011
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Interesting, I wonder how Werner will contrive to be offside from a cutback?Latest Athletic piece on the game and importance of cut backs
The pics aren't Getty so assume ok to leave in
Man United and Tottenham have contrasting fortunes with cutbacks - they could be decisive
One of Totenham's strengths is also one of Manchester United's weaknesses, so how might it play out on Sunday?theathletic.com
If “styles make fights” then Sunday’s game between Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur should provide entertainment and a fascinating contrast.
Erik ten Hag’s United have a season-long vulnerability to conceding cutback goals, while Ange Postecoglou’s side are masters at scoring in that way. Whether Spurs can exploit this weakness, and whether United can stop them, could be a key factor in deciding the outcome of the game.
Why are United so bad at conceding cutbacks?
United have become vulnerable to conceding cutback goals this season because of team-wide deficiencies.
Going into this Premier League weekend, they are fourth-worst for open-play shots conceded (214), only behind Sheffield United (254), West Ham United (239) and Luton Town (236). In a curious twist, their open-play expected goals against (xGA – goals they should reasonably expect to concede based on the quality of chances faced) is 24.37, yet they have conceded only 18 goals from open play so far this season, a reflection of the fact Andre Onana is making important saves and opponents are often being wasteful.
United do not possess a good defence troubled by a particular flaw. This is a mediocre defence that can be manipulated in all manner of ways before conceding. Cutback attempts are a manifestation of a long-gestating problem — only Everton (37, leading to five goals), Wolverhampton Wanderers (36, three goals), Luton Town (35, three goals) and Sheffield United (34, five goals) have faced more cutback shots this season than United (33, four goals).
Arsenal and Manchester City combined have faced fewer cutback shots (29) than Ten Hag’s side.
For Ten Hag, the root issue lies in the injury crisis that has seen him use 10 different centre-back pairings already this season. However, there are deeper structural issues to the Dutchman’s preferred style of play. Even if every United player were restored to full match sharpness and the starting line-up was at its strongest, Ten Hag’s tactical approach would still leave them vulnerable to cutback goals.
“We had a regular team, with not so many changes, especially in our backline,” he said in December, talking about the 2022-23 season. “That helps you. Then you get the routines in. We have to deal with it, as every team has to deal with it, but I’m sure when we get back to a regular base, then we will play better. You have a better opportunity to win games and you are consistent.”
Ten Hag’s pre-season aim to turn United into a transition-reliant team has largely backfired, with his side now unable to sustain attacking pressure on opponents and often exhibiting an inconsistent press when working against the ball.
This season, United have tried to defend in a man-to-man* structure and attempt to focus on ball recoveries high up the field. As 2023-24 has developed, teams have taken advantage of their naive pressing attempts, often baiting Ten Hag’s players into certain areas of the field before exploiting the space they leave behind. United’s poor rest defence, coupled with their tendency to commit players forward when attempting to score, means they can be vulnerable to conceding after losing the ball high up the field.
Cutback goals — in which a player in the opposition’s penalty box reaches the byline before passing the ball backwards to a team-mate — are a particular manifestation of United’s weakness to counter-attacks.
(*Things are made more complicated by Ten Hag’s insistence that his team do not use a man-marking system but use a zonal approach to defending. The United manager previously stated in an interview that United look like they are defending man-to-man after a problem occurs in the front press. The Athletic is going to ask you to trust your eyes: Manchester United defend man-to-man.)
United have defended wide areas poorly, allowing too many cutback situations, and defended their box poorly, facing a high volume of shots as a result. A perfect example can be found away to Copenhagen, shortly after Marcus Rashford’s red card reduced United to 10 players.
Alejandro Garnacho is too advanced (he should be deeper to prevent right-back Peter Ankersen from playing forward/having space to cross).
Neither Diogo Dalot nor Garnacho get out to stop the cross, or even apply pressure. Copenhagen get a two-v-one at the back post, with Aaron Wan-Bissaka (who is not a diligent back-post defender, even at the best of times) having to track Elias Achouri’s run. Ankersen’s overhit ball goes to the unmarked Diogo Goncalves, who knocks it back for Mohamed Elyounoussi. United’s defenders are on the six-yard line, obstructing Onana’s sight of the ball, but not applying pressure or blocking the shot. Elyounoussi taps in.
A similar goal, down the opposite side, can be found away to Arsenal — the least forgivable cutback goal United have conceded this season, as it was Martin Odgeaard’s trademark in 2022-23.
Antony’s position is effective in blocking the pass into Oleksandr Zinchenko but Arsenal access him by going straight from centre-back William Saliba to left-winger Gabriel Martinelli, and he sets the ball back. United’s central man-marking means they cannot commit a midfielder to support.
Zinchenko passes into No 9 Eddie Nketiah, who has dropped in, and Martinelli has run beyond. Take note of Odegaard’s position here, as Nketiah finds the winger.
United scramble to get bodies around the ball, and while Martinelli’s options are limited — he has no clear sight of goal — United’s centre-backs Lisandro Martinez and Victor Lindelof have both been pulled across and United are light centrally. The result, with Christian Eriksen unaware of Odegaard, is a simple cutback to the edge of the box for a one-touch finish.
Why have United got worse at this since last season?
Greater consistency in team selection meant United were a better counter-pressing side last season, able to win the ball back soon after losing it and allowing fewer of these forays down the wings that set up so many of these cutback attempts.
United were not perfect when defending against cutbacks last season, as evidenced by Phil Foden’s goals in the 6-3 defeat against Manchester City, but they were a lot more resilient when working against the ball than they have been in 2023-24.
Why are Spurs so good at scoring cutbacks?
The system. Postecoglou regularly pushes his ‘full-backs’ beyond the opposition midfield line, in the half-spaces. It is risky and expansive, and will leave space out wide for United to exploit on the counter, but can be effective at pinning opposition wingers and midfielders back — if the winger moves inside to cover, it opens the passing lane for the centre-back to find Spurs’ winger one-vs-one, which can be complemented by a full-back underlap or overlap to find the cutback angle.
“The more I can free players of positional constraints, the happier I get but the crazier it gets,” said Postecoglou in pre-season. “Can I get players not thinking like they’re defenders or midfielders or attackers, and can we get our game even more fluid?”
Cutback goals have been a trademark of high-possession systems in recent Premier League years, particularly Arsenal and City. Only Arsenal (47 shots) have more cutback shots than Spurs this season (44), while only City (10 goals) have scored more from cutbacks than Spurs (seven).
Spurs rank second in the Premier League for through balls and third-bottom for switches, an indication of a team that will not use bait-and-switch attacks but rather try to move an opposition block with the intention of creating a gap to punch through. Postecoglou’s No 9s are rarely high-touch players, often standing offside to stay unmarked, and coming alive when the defence is split and they can attack the goal.
Spurs’ attack gives a lot of licence for the No 10 to roam, typically dropping deep to receive from the centre-backs and to play line-breaking passes. United are fortunate not to be facing James Maddison in that role, as he is still out injured, but Postecoglou has fielded Dejan Kulusevski instead. He is taller and provides physicality, an excellent sticking point to bring others into play.
Out wide, Spurs have quick wingers to run at and behind defenders: Son Heung-min typically off the left, though he misses Sunday’s match as he is at the Asian Cup, and Brennan Johnson on the opposite side. Postecoglou started the season with Son as his No 9 and Richarlison on the left, and has used them interchangeably. “He’s still our best finisher and I thought getting him back on the left would give us some more avenues to score goals,” said Postecoglou on Son.
As good as creating the situation for a cutback, having enough bodies staggered in different locations is essential to maximising the chance of scoring — Spurs flood the box well, often with four players attacking the spaces, including full-backs or central midfielders crashing in.
Their opening goal in the reverse fixture showed that. Spurs hit United quickly after a regain in their own half, and as United tried to reconfigure their mid-block, Spurs went from left to right to find Kulusevski. Garnacho’s run (white arrow) affords Kulusevski too much space — he should arc his run towards the winger to slow him down and buy the midfield recovery time.
Spurs attack the box with three, but United’s two midfielders — Casemiro and Mason Mount — are ball-watching. Nobody picks up Pape Sarr’s late run, and Kulusevki’s cutback goes all the way through to the midfielder to open the scoring.
As Juanma Lillo wrote for The Athletic at the 2022 World Cup, with specific reference to cutbacks: “The last player to arrive to the box is the first one to be able to shoot.”
How can Ten Hag limit Spurs’ cutback attempts on Sunday?
It has not been a feature of United’s performances under Ten Hag against ‘Big Six’ opposition — six wins in 18 league games since the start of last season — but attack can be the best form of defence.
United have only had the majority share of possession in three of those matches, but did have 60.5 per cent of the ball at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in April — albeit when they dropped points from a 2-0 lead against a Spurs team with Ryan Mason as interim manager.
The most straightforward way he can protect against cutbacks would be to employ a higher defensive line and compress the space between the back four and the midfield, while encouraging his front three to pressure Spurs’ attempts to build from the back.
It’s a plan that worked for 45 minutes in the reverse fixture, until Postecoglou asked his centre-backs to play wider and work around United’s press.
Styles make fights and, on the evidence of the season so far, Ten Hag’s team look like they could be on the end of some cutback blows this Sunday unless they adapt.
I heard he trained yesterday
cookiemonster
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- Dec 29, 2005
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On the contrary I see the same sort of overcofidence similar to the chelsea game,look at the number if people predicting a win, we are going to smash them, Poch going to get the sack etc
Look what happened, Manure are still a big team and more than capable if raising their game
L1
Kulu is fine, he has to play really or I genuinely feel we have no chance. I'm intrigued by the CB partnership, does he go with a proven pairing of Romero & VdV with the flip side being the risk with both returning from injury or does he pair one of them with Dragusin who doesn't have the experience of the system or Prem but is fit. I think he's likely to go with Romero & VdV but it really is a lovely problem to have.
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thebenjamin
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- Jul 1, 2008
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I'm nervous because it's the first game since the Ratcliffe takeover so the crowd will be bang up for it. After an injury crisis they have pretty much their first choice line up available, while we have a decimated midfield and are missing our two elite attacking players. And we saw what that looked like against Burnley.
easley91
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- Jan 27, 2011
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Until Romero's sending off we were all over Chelsea. Even with ten we were in it and actually even with nine it wasn't until late on they finally took the chances to put it away.
easley91
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- Jan 27, 2011
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If Kulu is fine then I am very confident about today.
Regarding the CBs, I think it will be VDV and one other. Either Romero starts or he comes on for the last 30. Whatever the combination I am happy to have three senior CBs suited to the system after having none for far too long.
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Japhet
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- Aug 30, 2010
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One of their main strategies is Rashford running directly at defenders. I'm much happier with Romero or Dragusin than Emerson in that situation. Porro will need a bit of help too.
goughie1966
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- Aug 28, 2008
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William Hill - 
easley91
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We have key players back and two new signings. This isn't United of old. Even if they raise their game we can more than match them.
gavspur
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- Jun 24, 2004
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I’d give Dragusin the start alongside VdV. It’s these kind of moments that could push Cuti to realise that he has to fight to be here, and not be picking up silly cards and suspensions. No matter how much you like him, he has cost us points this season. And I do like him. But I think Dragusin is gonna really push him, VdV is unique because of his pace, if we got Kelly in I’d be thinking the same as Radu/Cuti for VdV.
I get it both ways tbh.
Personally I’m feeling calm about today, I think we have enough that IF we play well then we win. Not in an over confident sense, just in a, “we have enough” sort of way. I think it’s more I don’t feel we are going there as massive underdogs this time out.
However I get people being unsure a.) because let’s face it we don’t always play how we’re capable of, and b.) because it’s one of those games where form goes out the window, it wouldn’t surprise me if we won today, in the same way it also wouldn’t surprise me if United got a ridiculous penalty, won 1-0, celebrated like the corner had been turned (again) then dropped points in all of their next ten games.
So I feel confident, yet I see why others don’t.
Personally I’m feeling calm about today, I think we have enough that IF we play well then we win. Not in an over confident sense, just in a, “we have enough” sort of way. I think it’s more I don’t feel we are going there as massive underdogs this time out.
However I get people being unsure a.) because let’s face it we don’t always play how we’re capable of, and b.) because it’s one of those games where form goes out the window, it wouldn’t surprise me if we won today, in the same way it also wouldn’t surprise me if United got a ridiculous penalty, won 1-0, celebrated like the corner had been turned (again) then dropped points in all of their next ten games.
So I feel confident, yet I see why others don’t.
Mr Pink
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- Aug 25, 2010
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thebenjamin
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Doubt it. They'll play on the counter as they usually do. Not saying we can't get some joy but there is a significant lack of poise and technical proficiency in our forward line.
NickHSpurs
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- Mar 14, 2004
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Quietly confident about this, if we score first the stadium will be being silent.
