Mass Protest at the Lane this sunday?

[SpurSince57]

On this summer's performance, why? He and Levy got the players Ramos wanted (or most of them).

 

[hakano]

League position hasn't improved, except for the two seasons under Jol, and ironically it's those two seasons that put daft ideas into supporters' heads (and possibly Levy's head too). Like Jol said, he's a great businessman. It's on the football side that questions have to be asked. We had a five-year plan that was working pretty well and then got kicked out of the window—and supporters who were, and are, demanding CL football are just as much to blame. All very well for Jim Duggan to highlight the whopping hike in ticket prices, but just how else are we going to cover the wages of the players that fans demand? Wages that Levy has kept to a reasonable level?

Levy got rid of Jol and got Ramos in, a move apparently supported by a majority on SC, and subsequently indulged Ramos to a degree he was never indulged in at Sevilla. Make no mistake, every player we signed or tried to sign this summer was a player Ramos wanted, and Levy and Comolli ran their arses ragged trying to get them for him. We've got a quality squad that our coach asked for, and he seems unable to get it to work.

So blame Levy and Comolli. Seems logical to me.

Of course we will have a moan at the massive hike in ticket prices because like everything in life the more you pay the more you expect. Our ticket prices are amongst the highest in the Premiership and have been for a while. It's now two seasons running that our league campaign has ended in October so are we getting good value for money no, will we moan about it? You bet we will.

You also seem to know alot about the exact targets of Ramos and that he almost got everyone he wanted. Pls dont forget that he came into the club with Berbatov, Keane, Defoe & Bent and now he has Bent, Pav and Campbell. I'm sure that is all down to him also and neither Levy nor Comoli can be balmed.

 

[polski sklep]

Can we all agree to just sing Commolli out?

As ever, we haven't even got songs for the majority of the squad.

 

[SpurSince57]

Of course we will have a moan at the massive hike in ticket prices because like everything in life the more you pay the more you expect. Our ticket prices are amongst the highest in the Premiership and have been for a while. It's now two seasons running that our league campaign has ended in October so are we getting good value for money no, will we moan about it? You bet we will.

You also seem to know alot about the exact targets of Ramos and that he almost got everyone he wanted. Pls dont forget that he came into the club with Berbatov, Keane, Defoe & Bent and now he has Bent, Pav and Campbell. I'm sure that is all down to him also and neither Levy nor Comoli can be balmed.

I don't know about Ramos' exact targets, I'm simply exercising common sense. If you believe Levy and Comolli decided to dismantle the squad, that's your prerogative.

Let's cut ticket prices back to pre-ENIC level. I'm sure you'll be really pleased with the players we'll able to get in.

Like, duh.

 

[3Dnata]

I will be parading with a "toon mafia oot" and "boycoutt the club" placard.
Seriously Sunday will be my first trip to the Lane this year,I'm the man to turn it around let's be positive COYS!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

As I've pointed out we havn't improved that much in a footballing sense at all since Levy has been in charge. We've moved up at best 2 places on average and have averaged 2 more points than the years before Levy.

Yes we had the two 5th places (some would say with a manager that Levy didn't pick in the first place...but I think that's harsh) but that doesn't make him a good chairman, particularly when he then pulls that squad apart just as we're getting close to something good.

And all this against a background of rocketing ticket prices and money making schemes such as selling the fans own chants as ringtones to the fans.

Yes I think we've improved under Levy...but only marginally. And I think we're paying a huge cost for that marginal improvement. I think it's more than fair enough to question whether that's right or not...even if it turns out that the answer is that we can't do any better.

All I can say is you must have an incredibly short memory if you don't think you have watched a far better quality of player and football at the lane in the last 3/4 years than we were watching 5-10 years previous.

I know different.

And the answer is we couldn't do better or we would of wouldn't we ? We don't have unlimted funds. We have never had CL football but have managed to achieve european football for three consective seasons for the first time since the eighties - when you may have still been a sparkle in your dads eye for all I know. We have achieved this while strengthening our financial position in tandem. This in turn guarantees the kind of investment needed to continue to persue quality footballers.

How much better could the board realistically done ?

The players Manager and DOF is a different question.But this thread is about demonstrating against the board.

 

[SpurSince57]

Which is where we're in semi-agreement.

Levy did what he thought was best for the club. I thought he was wrong, like I thought he was wrong with Hoddle*, but I was in the minority, at least on SC. How the hell anyone who thought he was right in appointing Ramos can now criticise him beats me entirely.

*Either Hoddle should have gone at the end of 2002-2003, or been given more than the first few games of 2003-2004 to sort things out.

 

[double0]

Personally thought Hoddle was a good manager and was unlucky.

As for the Demo....what an unproductive and pointless act of stupidity if such goes ahead...seriouly doubt those that are planning such a shameless act, IMO their not Tottenham Supports.

Support the club in both bad and good times.

 

[talkshowhost86]

All I can say is you must have an incredibly short memory if you don't think you have watched a far better quality of player and football at the lane in the last 3/4 years than we were watching 5-10 years previous.

I know different.

And the answer is we couldn't do better or we would of wouldn't we ? We don't have unlimted funds. We have never had CL football but have managed to achieve european football for three consective seasons for the first time since the eighties - when you may have still been a sparkle in your dads eye for all I know. We have achieved this while strengthening our financial position in tandem. This in turn guarantees the kind of investment needed to continue to persue quality footballers.

How much better could the board realistically done ?

The players Manager and DOF is a different question.But this thread is about demonstrating against the board.

It's not a different question at all. Ultimately the board are responsible for the players, manager and the DOF.

And yes we had a far better quality of player for two seasons but now we've sold that up the river for our 'better financial position'. Having a better quality of players doesn't do much for the long term future of the club if we sell them whenever Man Utd come along...and ultimately if we're concerned about strengthening our financial position then that will continue to happen.

I don't think two good seasons means we give Levy and the board carte blanche to do what they want...especially not when they've had 6 average seasons alongside that and are currently on the way to getting us relegated...something Sugar didn't do.

 

[mkkid]

Personally thought Hoddle was a good manager and was unlucky.

As for the Demo....what an unproductive and pointless act of stupidity if such goes ahead...seriouly doubt those that are planning such a shameless act, IMO their not Tottenham Supports.

Support the club in both bad and good times.

Yes,we should go and cheer team and not critcise the board at all.
After all,we have made a healthy profit again.Thats what football all about.
We have sold our best 2 this year and dont worry Hutton and Bale will be next.They will put up your st by 10% next year and you will pay it!
There is no football,without the fans,it about time fans of clubs got together and made them release this.
As for the people doing the demo,i was involved in action group to get Sugar out and i can assure you they all seem like real fans to me then and i sure its the same now.
Season ticket holder,since 85 and i will been there long after you have stopped watching spurs IMO.

 

[Glasseye]

Personally, I am starting to think that the club really don't care about the fans, or what they think. We never receive information about injuries, kept in the dark, about most aspects of what is going on behind the scenes. From what I make out, the supporters trust is just fed lil bits and pieces of information and kept dangling on a hook.

I however don't believe that a demonstration would do any good, specially when instigated by a rag such as the one reporting it. I think its just to stir up trouble, and I refuse to follow that thing's lead.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's not a different question at all. Ultimately the board are responsible for the players, manager and the DOF.

And yes we had a far better quality of player for two seasons but now we've sold that up the river for our 'better financial position'. Having a better quality of players doesn't do much for the long term future of the club if we sell them whenever Man Utd come along...and ultimately if we're concerned about strengthening our financial position then that will continue to happen.

I don't think two good seasons means we give Levy and the board carte blanche to do what they want...especially not when they've had 6 average seasons alongside that and are currently on the way to getting us relegated...something Sugar didn't do.

We could not force two players to stay. There's a difference. They were not sold just because the board wanted the money. Keane had just been given a new contract. And if Berbatov had wanted to stay he'd still be here. And very nearly was.

THis happens to every team. Every team. How do you think we acquire our players ? How do you think we acquired Berbatov & keane and Carrick.

We have had 4 progressively good seasons not two. We played football last year than thye previos year, we just couldn't defend.

And if the DOF or manager are deemed not good enough I have no doubt that the board won't hang around in looking for suitable replacements, based on their track record, wouldn't you agree.

I realy don't think Levy will need to be pushed by mr angry from enfield.

 

[Roberts84]

It will but it'll be 6 drunken chavs by the gates on Bill Nich Way damaging random people's cars coming out in case they are Levy's and just trying to get on SSN. The Mail will be there after one photo which they can CGI up on a Lord of the Rings scale for Monday's front page.

I wouldn't put it passed a paper to pay people to go there and be a nuisance, it wouldn't be the first time

 

[talkshowhost86]

We could not force two players to stay. There's a difference. They were not sold just because the board wanted the money. Keane had just been given a new contract. And if Berbatov had wanted to stay he'd still be here. And very nearly was.

THis happens to every team. Every team. How do you think we acquire our players ? How do you think we acquired Berbatov & keane and Carrick.

We have had 4 progressively good seasons not two. We played football last year than thye previos year, we just couldn't defend.

And if the DOF or manager are deemed not good enough I have no doubt that the board won't hang around in looking for suitable replacements, based on their track record, wouldn't you agree.

I realy don't think Levy will need to be pushed by mr angry from enfield.

The Berbatov transfer was all about squeezing every last penny out of United rather than letting it move on so we could get a replacement. As a result we have the striker crisis that we have at the moment. And as has been pointed out many times if Levy wanted to keep Keane then he could have taken the same line as Villa did with Barry. But he didn't...he wanted the cash.

And that's fair enough to an extent because 20m was a bloody good deal for Keane...but it's no use to us sat in the bank and that's where the real problem lies. He's very good at squeezing every last penny out of other clubs but not as good at spending that bit extra to get what we need.

And to say that we played good football last year but couldn't defend...and then call that progress...is a bit weird to me. The team has to operate at both ends and if it isn't then that isn't progress at all...particularly when one of the main reason for our defensive frailties was the sale of Michael Carrick which again Levy jumped at the cash but didn't replace him.

And even if we accept that we were playing good attacking football last season and defending poorly, then surely the remit for the summer was improving the defence and defensive midfield? Ok we signed Corluka and sold Kaboul...probably an improvement. We did nothing to improve the defensive midfield. And in the meantime we completely ripped apart our strikeforce. That for me isn't progress.

 

[mackay59]

I am anti the demo - who's with me ?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The Berbatov transfer was all about squeezing every last penny out of United rather than letting it move on so we could get a replacement. As a result we have the striker crisis that we have at the moment. And as has been pointed out many times if Levy wanted to keep Keane then he could have taken the same line as Villa did with Barry. But he didn't...he wanted the cash.

But he didn't wait to try and replace berbatov or Keane. We signed Pavlyuchenko and were trying to sign Arshavin all summer. One is struggling to settle and one didn't happen largely due Zenit.

He took exactly the same line with Liverpool as Villa did. The only difference was Liverpool weren't prepared to meet Villa's price but they met ours. In both cases the players made it clear they wanted the move.

And that's fair enough to an extent because 20m was a bloody good deal for Keane...but it's no use to us sat in the bank and that's where the real problem lies. He's very good at squeezing every last penny out of other clubs but not as good at spending that bit extra to get what we need.

Come on TSH. It was clear we were willing to part with good money for Arshavin - more than Barca or anyone else, hence Zenit, Arshavin and his club acknowledging we were the only club interested in the deal. But we are not Chelsea or ManC. We cannot pay 24m for a player worth 12-16. The board also have a responsibility not to bankrupt us, as well as make us better. Surely you realise that. And right up until the final day of the transfer window Berbatov could well have been staying (which quite obviously the board were prepared for otherwise they'd have grabbed the first offer).

And to say that we played good football last year but couldn't defend...and then call that progress...is a bit weird to me. The team has to operate at both ends and if it isn't then that isn't progress at all...particularly when one of the main reason for our defensive frailties was the sale of Michael Carrick which again Levy jumped at the cash but didn't replace him.

It is progress because we subsequently bought three very good defenders and a goalkeeper, which has pretty much rectified that problem. Unfortunately we now need to rectify the striker problem. To a degree it is the nature of football and the same for every team in varying degrees. Where I see we are now one or two players away from having thebest squad I can actually remember you seem to see us drowning and going backwards.

And even if we accept that we were playing good attacking football last season and defending poorly, then surely the remit for the summer was improving the defence and defensive midfield? Ok we signed Corluka and sold Kaboul...probably an improvement. We did nothing to improve the defensive midfield. And in the meantime we completely ripped apart our strikeforce. That for me isn't progress.

We improved our midfield creatively. By all accounts we were trying to buy Tiago in Jan and Veloso in the summer. What do we do buy mediocraty ?
It took ManU four windows to get Berbatov. Why do you think we have a god given right to sign top drawer players ? it is just not that simple.
It would be if we could pay unlimited fees and 120k pw wages. But we can't and it is naive to just assume the board can buy who it chooses.

It is gross niavity to not appreciate that the board has a massive responsibility to sustain this clubs status. If we gamble and get it wrong we are Leeds. (three divisions down and no way back). If they turn down a gamble and we miss out at least we are strong enough to buy again and try again.

How hard are you trying to see it from the point of view of the board and the dilema they face under weekly pressure. Football is not just an entertainment business, it is a results business and a business business.


*
And with regards to my earlier comment, when I questioned the culpability of Arnesen, Comolli,Ramos and Jol it didn't mean that they are foregone conculsions either. Just more debatable IMO in terms of achieving their respective targets than the board. And again in varying degrees.

 

[spursgirls]

Did anyone look at the link to football fancast I posted? Here is the article in full. As I said before. It makes a lot of sense to me.

Football FanCast columnist Fanos Kyriacou cannot understand the logic behind this planned protest on Sunday and the purpose it intends to serve. So a section of Spurs fans have, in their infinite wisdom, arranged a protest which will take place before the match against Bolton attempting to force out Daniel Levy and Damien Comolli. It can't be just me who thinks that this will not help our current plight one bit. What is it that the fans are protesting about exactly?

Now I'm not Daniel Levy's biggest fan but some of the criticism levelled against him is quite unfair. He has made sure that the club is in a very strong financial position and has made funds available for the purchase of players, funds to rival the likes of Manchester United and Liverpool. He has also always fought our corner and has tried to always act for the best interests of the club. Like most people I agree that he got it badly wrong in the summer with the handling of the Dimitar Berbatov affair but shouldn't we as a club give him the opportunity to rectify this?
People point to his appointment of Damien Comolli as Director of Football and complain about the players he has signed. I didn't hear too many complaints when the club signed the likes of Berbatov, Gareth Bale, Jonathan Woodgate, Alan Hutton and Luka Modric but of course according to many pundits and Spurs fans it is only the bad signings that he is responsible for. And even though we had a problem about the way Martin Jol was sacked we weren't exactly too upset at the appointment of one of the most highly rated and sought after coaches in European football were we?
Now please don't get me wrong I have nothing against protesting when done properly but it seems to me that these fans are only protesting because we are not getting results at the moment and not because they disagree with the club's policy. We keep hearing things like Levy is only in it for the money and the whole system of having a Director of Football should be scrapped but would these same people be saying that if we were top of the league? If they are so against the regime why were there no protests in the summer? Whatever you think about the chairman it is foolish to think he would act to the detriment of the club's best interests because then the club's value would drop.
So what happens if the planned protest is successful and Levy and Comolli both leave the club, how will that help our cause exactly? Will it make the team perform better? Will we suddenly start playing every team we face off the park and win all our remaining fixtures with ease? The answer is clearly ‘no'. What it will do is push the club in to complete meltdown and cause the maximum amount of unrest which will affect the players even more. I'd like someone to tell me a time when a protest actually turned a club's fortunes around for the better because I certainly can't think of one.
As far as I'm concerned now is not the time to protest against anyone at the club. We badly need a win and now more than ever the club needs our support. By that I mean singing our hearts out for the team, not booing at half time if it is not going according to plan and trying to help lift the players and the coaches out of this gloom. The only people a protest will benefit on Sunday are Bolton who will no doubt feel they can take full advantage of a fragmented club and heap more misery on us. You can just imagine Gary Megson's team talk now telling his players that Spurs are so vulnerable at the moment and the fans will turn on them if we keep things tight for the first 15-20 minutes and then nick a goal.
Did a protest help Newcastle? Look what happened when they protested, Mike Ashley agreed to sell up and they ended up with Joe Kinnear as manager. Is that really what we want, to find ourselves in the same situation? The last thing we need right now is to be a club in limbo and turning this rotten run of form into a full blown crisis.
So I implore all genuine Spurs fans out there to stand up and get behind our team in a positive way against Bolton and try to pull them out of this situation and give the current board a chance to fix the mistakes they have undoubtedly made because a negative protest by the fans on Sunday will only bring about more misery and unrest.

 

[SpurSince57]

The Berbatov transfer was all about squeezing every last penny out of United rather than letting it move on so we could get a replacement. As a result we have the striker crisis that we have at the moment. And as has been pointed out many times if Levy wanted to keep Keane then he could have taken the same line as Villa did with Barry. But he didn't...he wanted the cash.

And that's fair enough to an extent because 20m was a bloody good deal for Keane...but it's no use to us sat in the bank and that's where the real problem lies. He's very good at squeezing every last penny out of other clubs but not as good at spending that bit extra to get what we need.

And to say that we played good football last year but couldn't defend...and then call that progress...is a bit weird to me. The team has to operate at both ends and if it isn't then that isn't progress at all...particularly when one of the main reason for our defensive frailties was the sale of Michael Carrick which again Levy jumped at the cash but didn't replace him.

And even if we accept that we were playing good attacking football last season and defending poorly, then surely the remit for the summer was improving the defence and defensive midfield? Ok we signed Corluka and sold Kaboul...probably an improvement. We did nothing to improve the defensive midfield. And in the meantime we completely ripped apart our strikeforce. That for me isn't progress.

But United didn't actually put in any kind of bid until quite late in the window, and holding out for £30m had nothing to do with signing a replacement. Maybe it's more apposite to ask why we pursued Pavlyuchenko (particularly after it became obvious that he'd be cup-tied for UEFA) rather than go for Milito. Was that Levy's decision?

It's also been pointed out many times that we took precisely the same line over Keane that Villa did with Barry, the difference being that they were unwilling or unable to match Villa's price. As to why we let Keane go before we'd secured a replacement, one can only surmise. If Liverpool were that desperate—and one can only assume that they were—then surely they'd have waited. Why did we get bogged down in interminable negotiations with Zenit? Because Levy wanted him?

Was it Levy and Comolli's decision to dismantle the squad? Did they draw up the list of targets? Were all these players foisted on Ramos? Of course not.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

But United didn't actually put in any kind of bid until quite late in the window, and holding out for £30m had nothing to do with signing a replacement. Maybe it's more apposite to ask why we pursued Pavlyuchenko (particularly after it became obvious that he'd be cup-tied for UEFA) rather than go for Milito. Was that Levy's decision?

It's also been pointed out many times that we took precisely the same line over Keane that Villa did with Barry, the difference being that they were unwilling or unable to match Villa's price. As to why we let Keane go before we'd secured a replacement, one can only surmise. If Liverpool were that desperate—and one can only assume that they were—then surely they'd have waited. Why did we get bogged down in interminable negotiations with Zenit? Because Levy wanted him?

Was it Levy and Comolli's decision to dismantle the squad? Did they draw up the list of targets? Were all these players foisted on Ramos? Of course not.

And if you extract the very reluctant sales of Keane and especially Berbatov (of whom no manager would willingly want to loose) and look at all other business, the changes made were by and large all excellent and neccessary. Good quality defenders, keeper and creativity. Exactly what was needed. We can argue the toss over Bentley at 15m but even I, as underwelmed by the player and his price wasn't as miffed with this transfer as the Bent 16m waste.

I have always defended most of Comolli's dealings (Bar Bent - which was a catastrophic clusterfuck IMO) but he did fuck up this summer in not securing at least one other experienced striker. And to be fair he did own up to this on the official web site. And in mitigation in Modric, Gomes, GDS did some fantastic business.

I also think that bent's pre-season form (Most of us know is absoloutely meaningless) suggested he may just be ready to start firing consistantly. I didn't buy it, but I guess it's easy to see why some might have. Although that doesn't excuse Comolli IMO.

 

[SpurSince57]

But if we could have picked up Milito and Garcia as a job lot from Real Z, why didn't we? Because we were pursuing Arshavin and Pavlyuchenko at Ramos' insistence? :shrug: With the benefit of magic 20-20 hindsight specs, part-exchanging Keane for Crouch (oh how we laughed!) might not have been a bad idea.

Whatever, Levy can hardly be held accountable for the team's performance.