Match Ratings vs Qarabag

[tooey]

I thought Trippier was shit, even if you exclude the penalty. I'm no Walker fan boy but he's certainly started the season well, it just appears that some people don't particularly like him and tend to skew reality to suit some sort of agenda. Walker is number one as we stand and rightly so, I'm just happy we now have really decent depth in our back four.

 

[dudu]

And @sloth

I'm not really getting what was so outrageous about what I said. Clearly both players contributed and I said so. Both created a great clear chance for Son, Lamela also scored a goal and was damn unlucky not to have two (or three of Carroll had played that pass a fraction quicker), Lamela did complete a lower percentage of his passes (82), but then attempted 30% more passes than Alli effectively seeing a lot more ball than Alli. Lamela 4 tackles Alli 3, Alli 3 interceptions, Lamela 1.

So both were heavily involved in team play (Lamela marginally more so), both created clean chances for others (if Alli created more than the goal I don't remember it but if he did then him marginally more so), Lamela scored and Alli didn't, marginally edged tackles and Alli marginally edged interceptions.

OF course Alli's age means you can caveat it with "especially for a 19yo". But as long as you are just judging the two purely on their merits, without taking age on board, and you are purely objective and don't Clive Allen tell you what's what, ignore the fact that Lamela has some irritating mannerisms, then both players contributed a pretty even amount overall to that game.

For the record, whoscored, using their purely non "human" bias had Lamela second highest overall rating at 8.15, Alli third at 8.04. This in no way backs up conclusively what I said after just using my eyes and managing to shut out the bollocks that Clive Allen was spouting all game, but does at least suggest my opinion was perhaps less obtuse than suggested.

Just the tone of your paragraph about him seemed to focus a little on his errors rather than his overall immensely impressive performance - for me out shining the others AM's in terms of consistency throughout the entire game.

Not many other can claim to have done that last night.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Just the tone of your paragraph about him seemed to focus a little on his errors rather than his overall immensely impressive performance - for me out shining the others AM's in terms of consistency throughout the entire game.

Not many other can claim to have done that last night.

I thought I focused more on the fact that I can't quite figure out what role Alli will play. I actually don't think he outperformed Lamela last night. I'll stand by that. I think both did some really good things and I mentioned that there were the ever present Lamela fumbles too just as I mentioned what I perceived of Alli's negatives.

I actually think my assessment was far more objective and closer to a reality than much of the Lamela was terrible, Alli was the next coming that seemed to emanate from Clive Allen and somehow permeate the consciousness of many watching BT Sport.

Lamela runs like an effeminate gazelle, he is an oddity in that his first touch and technique are superb at times, but his second touch can sometimes ping off him like a fucking spring loaded pin ball, and he wears the permanent expression of rabbit caught in headlights having just had an adrenalin enema . But if you can get past all that, which I think some can't, he invariably contributes quite a lot to games. He's the only forward player we have who creates clear quality chances/throughballs almost every time he plays, and he's the only one who works hard without the ball and actually tackles (albeit like he does everything else at times - erratically) consistently every time he plays.

 

[Bulletspur]

Njie looked very raw. Some nice moments with good touch, pace and ability but a few daft passes too. Also wish he didn't resemble Ballotelli so much.

I.

Are you part of the brigade in the "they all look alike" camp with an agenda? They do not look alike, not even close. You saying they resemble is like saying Jeremy Peace resembles Daniel Levy.

 

[Bulletspur]

.

Lamela runs like an effeminate gazelle, he is an oddity in that his first touch and technique are superb at times, but his second touch can sometimes ping off him like a fucking spring loaded pin ball, and he wears the permanent expression of rabbit caught in headlights having just had an adrenalin enema . But if you can get past all that, which I think some can't, he invariably contributes quite a lot to games. He's the only forward player we have who creates clear quality chances/throughballs almost every time he plays, and he's the only one who works hard without the ball and actually tackles (albeit like he does everything else at times - erratically) consistently every time he plays.

This is spot on! Wish I could give you more than one winner ratings for this!

 

[DHMadboy]

Thought Qarabag were better than expected and played some very neat football, nothing flash, but pinged the ball round swiftly and effectively, so the game shouldnt be written off like we were playing a conference team.

Lloris had a canny game. 7
Trippier struggled to start with, and had his confidence take a major hit with the penalty, but he refocused and grew in confidence as the game went on, getting forward well. But playing 4-3-3 did leave our fullbacks exposed, so both struggled. 6
Wimmer was solid for his first game, glad to see we have good back up at the back now. 7
Alderweireld looking better every game he plays. 7
Rose really struggled at the back but again the formation didnt help, got better as the game went on. 5
Dier probably his worst game in that position, but he had more area to cover. 5
Carroll played really well, looked good tackling and breaking up the attack while still in their half, but now and again gave the ball away for no reason. 7
Townsend always looks a threat but couldnt make it count, didnt do enough. 6
Lamela tries so hard, and I think that lets him down, if he could just relax a little everything would flow better for him. but in this game he either made a great pass or it was dreadful, but he chased back and did all he could to regain possession, thoroughly deserved his goal, very well taken. 8
Alli looks fantastic tries tricks where it wont hurt the team and always looking to get the ball forward. a very bright future. 8
Son looked superb some of his dribbling was great, and took both his goals well. 8

Winks looked good but not on for that long 6
Kane was able to relax and not feel like he had to score goals, so wasnt as selfish. 7
N'jie tried to hard to make an impact, so things didnt come off, but looks promising. 6


Also wish everyone would settle down about us looking bad at back and always getting hit on the counter, its the style of football poch plays, we press high and the defense plays high up the field, of course we will get hit on the counter a lot, thats why we have a keeper that likes to come off his line and defenders with a good turn of pace.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Are you part of the brigade in the "they all look alike" camp with an agenda? They do not look alike, not even close. You saying they resemble is like saying Jeremy Peace resembles Daniel Levy.

Ugh, there's always one isn't there.

No, I think that they both have stupid fucking tinted blonde Mohawks and that clintons remind me of Ballotelli as it looks equally ****ish. But thanks, thanks for trying to pick a fight based on assumptions about me, instead of just politely enquiring!

 

[dudu]

I thought I focused more on the fact that I can't quite figure out what role Alli will play. I actually don't think he outperformed Lamela last night. I'll stand by that. I think both did some really good things and I mentioned that there were the ever present Lamela fumbles too just as I mentioned what I perceived of Alli's negatives.

I actually think my assessment was far more objective and closer to a reality than much of the Lamela was terrible, Alli was the next coming that seemed to emanate from Clive Allen and somehow permeate the consciousness of many watching BT Sport.

Lamela runs like an effeminate gazelle, he is an oddity in that his first touch and technique are superb at times, but his second touch can sometimes ping off him like a fucking spring loaded pin ball, and he wears the permanent expression of rabbit caught in headlights having just had an adrenalin enema . But if you can get past all that, which I think some can't, he invariably contributes quite a lot to games. He's the only forward player we have who creates clear quality chances/throughballs almost every time he plays, and he's the only one who works hard without the ball and actually tackles (albeit like he does everything else at times - erratically) consistently every time he plays.

I think he contributes to games for sure - but for me, last night - he was the one player that didnt really create any quality chances for others and his first half performance left a lot to be desired. Even Andros managed more key passes than him last night.

At half time would you not have said Ali was outperforming Lamela? Apart from the goal (fabulous work from Kane pretty much giving it to lamela on a plate) would you not have said their performance was equal in the second half?

In my opinion he flourishes when allowed space and time on the ball - something which he is not going to get much of and something which time and time again is proving to be his Achilles heel This is something which for me he has not shown that much improvement on.

To have 75 touches and not really produce that much of note means that he can and should be doing better with the ball. Its all very well getting it so often but as an AM I want more from him.

I always give him kudos for his positive attributes - i love his commitment to tracking back (though his tackling style leave a lot to be desired) and i genuinely think he has something about him - I just dont trust him with the ball at his feet yet.

 

[walworthyid]

And @sloth

I'm not really getting what was so outrageous about what I said. Clearly both players contributed and I said so. Both created a great clear chance for Son, Lamela also scored a goal and was damn unlucky not to have two (or three of Carroll had played that pass a fraction quicker), Lamela did complete a lower percentage of his passes (82), but then attempted 30% more passes than Alli effectively seeing a lot more ball than Alli. Lamela 4 tackles Alli 3, Alli 3 interceptions, Lamela 1.

So both were heavily involved in team play (Lamela marginally more so), both created clean chances for others (if Alli created more than the goal I don't remember it but if he did then him marginally more so), Lamela scored and Alli didn't, marginally edged tackles and Alli marginally edged interceptions.

OF course Alli's age means you can caveat it with "especially for a 19yo". But as long as you are just judging the two purely on their merits, without taking age on board, and you are purely objective and don't Clive Allen tell you what's what, ignore the fact that Lamela has some irritating mannerisms, then both players contributed a pretty even amount overall to that game.

For the record, whoscored, using their purely non "human" bias had Lamela second highest overall rating at 8.15, Alli third at 8.04. This in no way backs up conclusively what I said after just using my eyes and managing to shut out the bollocks that Clive Allen was spouting all game, but does at least suggest my opinion was perhaps less obtuse than suggested.

You never cease to amaze me. I like Lamela and think he has a lot of talent. He was shocking first half but really improved in the second even though he still gave the ball away, dithered etc. As I said in another thread, he has the ability to create a goal in a flash but he will always frustrate.

However, to compare his performance last night to that of Alli on the basis of stats highlights the flaw in the way thst you choose to analyse football matches. Alli was a constant threat and quite frankly looked like a seasoned pro rather than a raw 19yr old. You simply cannot measure a players performance by stats alone. Anybody with eyes could see that Alli was far better than Lamela on the night even if the stats don't show it.

 

[walworthyid]

Ugh, there's always one isn't there.

No, I think that they both have stupid fucking tinted blonde Mohawks and that clintons remind me of Ballotelli as it looks equally ****ish. But thanks, thanks for trying to pick a fight based on assumptions about me, instead of just politely enquiring!

They really don't look anything alike though mate to be honest. You may not have meant anything by it but it wasn't an unreasonable assumption to make based on your original post!

 

[BringBack_leGin]

They really don't look anything alike though mate to be honest. You may not have meant anything by it but it wasn't an unreasonable assumption to make based on your original post!

They look more alike than I do to either of them and I take great offence to anybody hinting at racism on my part. I'm out of this thread as that's fucking pissed me off and I don't want it to escalate, but as far as I'm concerned that was **** behaviour!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think he contributes to games for sure - but for me, last night - he was the one player that didnt really create any quality chances for others and his first half performance left a lot to be desired. Even Andros managed more key passes than him last night.

At half time would you not have said Ali was outperforming Lamela? Apart from the goal (fabulous work from Kane pretty much giving it to lamela on a plate) would you not have said their performance was equal in the second half?

In my opinion he flourishes when allowed space and time on the ball - something which he is not going to get much of and something which time and time again is proving to be his Achilles heel This is something which for me he has not shown that much improvement on.

To have 75 touches and not really produce that much of note means that he can and should be doing better with the ball. Its all very well getting it so often but as an AM I want more from him.

I always give him kudos for his positive attributes - i love his commitment to tracking back (though his tackling style leave a lot to be desired) and i genuinely think he has something about him - I just dont trust him with the ball at his feet yet.

What about the chance he created for Son when he put him clean through and Son tried to chip the keeper (which I thought was a clever idea - if only the keeper had followed the script and gone down like they do normally) ?

Did Alli create more clear quality chances than the one he did for Son's goal, I can't remember ? And Alli also got laid one on a plate and didn't finish it as coolly as Lamela did his.

I think Alli was better first half than Lamela, but I think Lamela was better second half.

 

[dudu]

What about the chance he created for Son when he put him clean through and Son tried to chip the keeper (which I thought was a clever idea - if only the keeper had followed the script and gone down like they do normally) ?

Did Alli create more clear quality chances than the one he did for Son's goal, I can't remember ? And Alli also got laid one on a plate and didn't finish it as coolly as Lamela did his.

I think Alli was better first half than Lamela, but I think Lamela was better second half.

Apologies yes, Lamela did play that through ball - so he got his one

sorry, hit post too early by mistake.

For me its about expectation.

Ali played beyond what i was expecting - he is a 19year old first time playing in a European competition, second time starting for the 5th best team in the country.

Lamela played slightly below what i would have expected from him.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You never cease to amaze me. I like Lamela and think he has a lot of talent. He was shocking first half but really improved in the second even though he still gave the ball away, dithered etc. As I said in another thread, he has the ability to create a goal in a flash but he will always frustrate.

However, to compare his performance last night to that of Alli on the basis of stats highlights the flaw in the way thst you choose to analyse football matches. Alli was a constant threat and quite frankly looked like a seasoned pro rather than a raw 19yr old. You simply cannot measure a players performance by stats alone. Anybody with eyes could see that Alli was far better than Lamela on the night even if the stats don't show it.

Even if that's what I'd done, you still wouldn't have the imagination to be amazed, because using stats would still be preferable to just letting a TV pundit tell you what to think, which is clearly what you've done. But I didn't, I used stats to back up my opinion, not form it. But then, you know that already, but don't let that stop you trotting out the same old trite "you only use stats" cliche will you.

 

[tippspur59]

Alli,one of those players you would look forward to watching,we haven't had many of them lately.

 

[sirleytonbrisbane]

Dele Ali looks promising.

Lamela is a shit footballer.

 

[DaSpurs]

Lamela runs like an effeminate gazelle

so true.

I'll be honest, every time I've watched Lamela play I've been impressed with some things he does, but I've always mostly thought in his direction (sometimes thought it out loud):

Surely @Snarfalicious and @TheAmerican will get that one.

 

[walworthyid]

Even if that's what I'd done, you still wouldn't have the imagination to be amazed, because using stats would still be preferable to just letting a TV pundit tell you what to think, which is clearly what you've done. But I didn't, I used stats to back up my opinion, not form it. But then, you know that already, but don't let that stop you trotting out the same old trite "you only use stats" cliche will you.

I have plenty of imagination and to be honest I don't really listen to commentators; it's just noise. I watch games, I form my opinions on what I've watched. I accept that just watching a game doesn't reveal everything that happens and stats often reveal the kind of data that is missed. But watching a game does tell you a lot and last night it told me that Alli played better on the whole than lamela.

Also, unlike you I don't trot out the same types of arguments every week. You use stats in a very large proportion of your posts and although your posts are often very insightful your reliance on stats often blinds you to what is actually happening.

I analyse data in my job on a daily basis and have to make decisions based on that data. I know what that type of analysis can tell you and what it can't.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Even if that's what I'd done, you still wouldn't have the imagination to be amazed, because using stats would still be preferable to just letting a TV pundit tell you what to think, which is clearly what you've done. But I didn't, I used stats to back up my opinion, not form it. But then, you know that already, but don't let that stop you trotting out the same old trite "you only use stats" cliche will you.

Yes BC, everyone who thinks Alli played very well is just getting it from BT Sport. Of course you didn't because you are so superior to us peasants.

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

Alli continues to be a bit of a puzzle to me. Clearly the boy has ability, and his set up for Son's second was a nice piece of play, but he also seems to lack a bit of urgency and dynamism at times and also runs into the odd dead end or miss-control. I can't really figure out what he is and where a long term future lies for him positionally. He's a bit of a Fellani.

My concerns exactly... where does he fit? I have no idea as he isn't a number 10.