Milan to swap Huntelaar for Pavlyuchenko

[defoe18]

http://www.sport.co.uk/news/Football/28421/Redknapp_pities_Pavlyuchenko.aspx

Pointless selling him or "replacing him" in january, you need quality strikers in your squad for injuries and suspensions etc, alot can change between now and january and i doubt he'll lose his place in the russia squad for the world cup, have faith and give the guy more than season to prove himself. Adebayor was cack in his first season down the road...

 

[guy]

Keeping 4 good strikers happy is almost impossible. the players who falls to the bottom of the pile is always gonna get upset and leave after a while. Happened with mido, then defoe, then bent, now pav.

 

[matp]

Are you serious?

Bale hasn't been playing largely due to injury, and also due to the fact that BAE turned out to be a 'triffic' player (as I suggested he might). Bale is still very young and if Mourinho is keen on him, as well as AC, doesn't that suggest to you that he may just be actually like an incredibly exciting young prospect who has been injured. Oh, did I forget to mention we beat United to his signature - he is THAT highly rated.

As for Pav. - well, everyone else has said it. We could just about accept a like-for-like swap for Huntelaar, but Klaas Jan would be no happier sitting on the bench than Pav. and hasn't exactly set the world on light at either Real or AC. With Pav the main problem isn't anything he hasn't done, as 'Arry has made clear, it is more what JD, Keano and Crouch have done (in 'Arry's opinion, which is the one that matters.

To suggest that Bale and Pav would be a good swap for Huntelaar - well, quite frankly I am amazed:-|

ultimateloner's point was perfectly reasonable - hardly worth asking if he is serious and saying your amazed.

You may rate both Bale and Pav (I know I do) but the fact is that Huntelaar is on a different level. He is a potentially world class goal machine (which is why I think this story is nonsense).

Personally I don't think this is an area we should be focusing on because his arrival would certainly mean the departure of one of our other strikers (as well as Pav). As others have said we need to find a 4th striker who is happy to be a bit part player and none of the players we have + Huntelaar would find that acceptable. All the same I would take Huntelaar for Pav + Bale because you don't often get a chance to pick up players of that caliber.

 

[striebs]

Surely we already have plenty of forwards who would be happy to come off the bench now and again and don't need to buy anymore .

For a start , GDS and Jon Obika assuming he can be recalled from loan if injuries demand it .

 

[matp]

Really doesn't matter how many strikers we have KJH would be an upgrade on all of them. He would need to be a significant upgrade to risk upsetting the apple cart. On the other hand I don't think we have a striking line up which will stand for long anyway because Pav won't stay beyond Xmas at this rate.

We normally talk about having a 4th striker who is happy to spend time on the bench but it is extremely hard to find a player like this. I have a radical suggestion which may even be what the club is already doing: what if you accept that you will never keep all 4 happy but sell and replace the player at the bottom of the pile when they demand a move and just buy a new player. This means that every window or two we would need to replace our (apparently) worst striker with a new player. We tend to buy a striker every window right now so how would it differ from what we're doing!

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

Really doesn't matter how many strikers we have KJH would be an upgrade on all of them. He would need to be a significant upgrade to risk upsetting the apple cart. On the other hand I don't think we have a striking line up which will stand for long anyway because Pav won't stay beyond Xmas at this rate.

We normally talk about having a 4th striker who is happy to spend time on the bench but it is extremely hard to find a player like this. I have a radical suggestion which may even be what the club is already doing: what if you accept that you will never keep all 4 happy but sell and replace the player at the bottom of the pile when they demand a move and just buy a new player. This means that every window or two we would need to replace our (apparently) worst striker with a new player. We tend to buy a striker every window right now so how would it differ from what we're doing!

Or our fourth player is someone like Dos Santos or Obika, who seem happier than Pav to not get time, plus we can always send them out on short term lone deals, and get them back if one of the other 3 get injured :wink: They would then be a bit like O'Hara, we woant them but can't keep them on the bench all the time, but they are still around if you really need them......

 

[teddy_sheringham_125]

Or our fourth player is someone like Dos Santos or Obika, who seem happier than Pav to not get time, plus we can always send them out on short term lone deals, and get them back if one of the other 3 get injured :wink: They would then be a bit like O'Hara, we woant them but can't keep them on the bench all the time, but they are still around if you really need them......

Well that's a tough scenario really. Everything seems rosy now, but what if Defoe and Crouch get injured? Do you think we could rely on a Keane and Dos Santos pairing to keep us in the top 6 (4!)? We really need 4 good strikers, and we somehow need to keep them all happy. I'd suggest it's games against the weaker teams at home where we really must rotate our strike force, although it's tough to leave out goal scorers and hope that they don't lose their form.

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

Well that's a tough scenario really. Everything seems rosy now, but what if Defoe and Crouch get injured? Do you think we could rely on a Keane and Dos Santos pairing to keep us in the top 6 (4!)? We really need 4 good strikers, and we somehow need to keep them all happy. I'd suggest it's games against the weaker teams at home where we really must rotate our strike force, although it's tough to leave out goal scorers and hope that they don't lose their form.

Sorry disagree on this one - Who are Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U's 4 out and out strikers?

 

[teddy_sheringham_125]

Sorry disagree on this one - Who are Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U's 4 out and out strikers?

I don't think that those teams are comparable. When the Sky 4 have injuries they generally have enough quality throughout to adapt the system and make it work; how often have we played one up top in recent times and looked anywhere near at our best? Furthermore, those 4 teams don't often play with 2 up top and so wouldn't need a replacement for each.

I could also argue that with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool, they really do look well below par when Torres/Van Persie/formally Adebayor have been out.

 

[StartingPrice]

ultimateloner's point was perfectly reasonable - hardly worth asking if he is serious and saying your amazed.

You may rate both Bale and Pav (I know I do) but the fact is that Huntelaar is on a different level. He is a potentially world class goal machine (which is why I think this story is nonsense).

Personally I don't think this is an area we should be focusing on because his arrival would certainly mean the departure of one of our other strikers (as well as Pav). As others have said we need to find a 4th striker who is happy to be a bit part player and none of the players we have + Huntelaar would find that acceptable. All the same I would take Huntelaar for Pav + Bale because you don't often get a chance to pick up players of that caliber.

Ultramaloner's point was clear. But as I said if Bale was valued at £10 million when he arrived (and, aside from injury, why should that value have depreciated?), and there is every reason he will both be a top performer, and part of 'Arry's plans, and Pav. arrived for £14 (albeit he hasn't set the World on fire), why should it be reasonable to swap them for someone who retailed for £16 million in the summer and is available because he has decidedly failed to impress? That is simple math. If Mr U'Maloner had suggested swapping Bale omg and Pav -|) for Huntelaar and £6 to £8 million I would have said fair enough (but still would have believed AC were getting a good deal). That is what amazed me. The fact is that I can quite understand, as I have said previously, that Pav may have to leave (although I would prefer it if he stayed) - so, no problem there. But for me selling Bale (and at a massive loss) is not something a club with out aspirations should even be contemplating. Now if someone were to state it as a personal opinion that selling Bale at a profit (so, at least £12 million) would be good business for the club as he is not at the moment a regular and BAE is performing reasonably well at a consistent level I would find that fair enough. If someone were to suggest that Huntelaar was, realistically, justa little better than PAv, and so we should give AC £2 or even £4 million I could find that acceptable (whether I agreed in the estimations or not - and as I said, I doubt Huntelaar would be any happier sitting on the bench). But to suggest virtually giving him to AC Milan just so they would more-or-less swap Huntelaar with us - that astounds me. By my calculations it means that the club would lose £6 and £8 million just to swap one bench striker for another, whilst losing back-up at full-back. This is based on my valuations as follows:
Bale £10 to £12 million (at least - though if he matures as many expect even £12 million is being VERY conservative).
£14 - £12 million for Pav. (maybe slightly inflated when we brought him, though I don't think he has depreciated at all).
£16 - £15 million for Huntelaar (on the basis that he was sold for £16 million in the summer and, if anything, has depreciated, or why else would AC be wanting to get shot so quickly:shrug.
Add to this the very obvious bargaining position that AC clearly want to get rid of Huntelaar, and are the prime movers in wanting Pav, whereas 'Arry doesn't actually want to lose Pav and, I am sure, would be absolutely horrified at losing one of the young players that has the potential to take this to the next level, and I hope you can see why I (as in my personal opinnion) am astounded:-|

ps - If Bale went in Jan we would also need to find cover for BAE:-|

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

I don't think that those teams are comparable. When the Sky 4 have injuries they generally have enough quality throughout to adapt the system and make it work; how often have we played one up top in recent times and looked anywhere near at our best? Furthermore, those 4 teams don't often play with 2 up top and so wouldn't need a replacement for each.

I could also argue that with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool, they really do look well below par when Torres/Van Persie/formally Adebayor have been out.

So basically what you are saying is, the fact that we have 4 strikers is immaterial because we don't really have the team to compete for the top 4 anyway - as teams like manu, liverpool, arsenal, chelsea are all better all over the field! and all we have is 4 good strikers, so we need to keep them all to even stand a chance....

I am not sure I see your argument - We need at least 4 strikers to compete in this league, because we are so shit in all other areas of the field - the only way we can compete is buy banging in more goals from our strikers than others?

Well i guess we have a bigger problem then, if this is true, maybe we should get rid of some of those strikers anyway and get more quality in other areas, then we can be more like the Sky 4?

Sorry but to reiterate, i don't agree, I think your right, the sky 4 do have better quality all over the pitch which is why they don't need 4 strikers, but we are getting better - we don't need 4 strikers either to compete with them, 3 is enough, and the backups I have mentioned. Obviously we need to improve in other areas to get and stay in the top 4, but keeping 4 top strikers, and one or two unhappy on the bench is not the way to do it?

So to get back to the original topic, we don't need to keep Pav unhappy on the bench.......we have others who can do a good job if needed, and hopefully we have enough players around the team to start to compete at a higher level........and hopefully a few more come Jan......:beer:

 

[ultimateloner]

Ultramaloner's point was clear. But as I said if Bale was valued at £10 million when he arrived (and, aside from injury, why should that value have depreciated?), and there is every reason he will both be a top performer, and part of 'Arry's plans, and Pav. arrived for £14 (albeit he hasn't set the World on fire), why should it be reasonable to swap them for someone who retailed for £16 million in the summer and is available because he has decidedly failed to impress? That is simple math. If Mr U'Maloner had suggested swapping Bale omg and Pav -|) for Huntelaar and £6 to £8 million I would have said fair enough (but still would have believed AC were getting a good deal). That is what amazed me. The fact is that I can quite understand, as I have said previously, that Pav may have to leave (although I would prefer it if he stayed) - so, no problem there. But for me selling Bale (and at a massive loss) is not something a club with out aspirations should even be contemplating. Now if someone were to state it as a personal opinion that selling Bale at a profit (so, at least £12 million) would be good business for the club as he is not at the moment a regular and BAE is performing reasonably well at a consistent level I would find that fair enough. If someone were to suggest that Huntelaar was, realistically, justa little better than PAv, and so we should give AC £2 or even £4 million I could find that acceptable (whether I agreed in the estimations or not - and as I said, I doubt Huntelaar would be any happier sitting on the bench). But to suggest virtually giving him to AC Milan just so they would more-or-less swap Huntelaar with us - that astounds me. By my calculations it means that the club would lose £6 and £8 million just to swap one bench striker for another, whilst losing back-up at full-back. This is based on my valuations as follows:
Bale £10 to £12 million (at least - though if he matures as many expect even £12 million is being VERY conservative).
£14 - £12 million for Pav. (maybe slightly inflated when we brought him, though I don't think he has depreciated at all).
£16 - £15 million for Huntelaar (on the basis that he was sold for £16 million in the summer and, if anything, has depreciated, or why else would AC be wanting to get shot so quickly:shrug.
Add to this the very obvious bargaining position that AC clearly want to get rid of Huntelaar, and are the prime movers in wanting Pav, whereas 'Arry doesn't actually want to lose Pav and, I am sure, would be absolutely horrified at losing one of the young players that has the potential to take this to the next level, and I hope you can see why I (as in my personal opinnion) am astounded:-|

ps - If Bale went in Jan we would also need to find cover for BAE:-|

Fair points from a financial perspective.

Simple answer is neither Bale nor Pav are worth what we paid for them - which maybe why Bale didn't go to Man Utd.

As far as I can see KJH would improve our squad. Bale and Pav have been here for a while but neither contributed enough.

We have a good shout for CL this year (yes dare I say it) given our run. Striker is the most important position in the squad and getting this deal through would improve our chances.

 

[SpurSince57]

Hardly fair on Bale given that he's been plagued by injury for virtually the whole of his Spurs career.

 

[diegooners]

Striker is not the most important position in the squad for us at the moment actually. Far from it. A suitable replacement for an injured Palacios is by far and away the most pressing issue on our hands.

 

[Rumbaldo]

Striker is not the most important position in the squad for us at the moment actually. Far from it. A suitable replacement for an injured Palacios is by far and away the most pressing issue on our hands.

amen

this thread is classic will our never ending striker buying project ever be completed?
sell pav fair enough but get in another striker to replace him? crackfoxes the lot of you
now if it was fat ronaldo at his peak its another matter. is huntelar even better than Pav my jury is still out on that one.

 

[SpurSince57]

Is Palacios injured?

Frankly, I don't think we're in urgent need of signing anyone very much. As for Huntelaar, I'd say he would be an upgrade on Pav, but not necessarily on Keane, Defoe and Crouchinho, and not enough of one to make it worth the hassle. Added to which, the boy clearly has delusions of grandeur—he was too good for Stuttgart, so is almost certainly too good for us.

 

[Rumbaldo]

Is Palacios injured?

Frankly, I don't think we're in urgent need of signing anyone very much. As for Huntelaar, I'd say he would be an upgrade on Pav, but not necessarily on Keane, Defoe and Crouchinho, and not enough of one to make it worth the hassle. Added to which, the boy clearly has delusions of grandeur—he was too good for Stuttgart, so is almost certainly too good for us.

might find ourselves in a spot of bother if he does get injured.

is Huntelaar really any better Reeeeaaaallllllyyyy? is there any evidence to support this in the last year?

 

[milkman]

Hunt for Bale and Pav would be a good deal for us.

Bale and Pav showed signs of promise but neither lived up to expectation. They aren't even starting for us.

Hunt can play alone upfront and gives something different to our strike force. He also has a good CV.

I take track record over potential any day.

we have seen bale's quality when he is fully fit, we is still at a young age. If he keep hold of him and he develops well he'll become a top left wing back.

 

[StartingPrice]

Fair points from a financial perspective.

Simple answer is neither Bale nor Pav are worth what we paid for them - which maybe why Bale didn't go to Man Utd.

As far as I can see KJH would improve our squad. Bale and Pav have been here for a while but neither contributed enough.

We have a good shout for CL this year (yes dare I say it) given our run. Striker is the most important position in the squad and getting this deal through would improve our chances.

I was talking talking from the financial view - though I have to say I am shocked at your assessment of Bale. United didn't buy him 'cos we beat them to the punch, Old Red Nose really wanted him. The fact is that he got that stupid 'hex rep' in a team that was really struggling and then got a bad injury. Other than that he still has amazing potential (.and is only 20). He is till highly rated, and, if he has little to suggest his value has gone up (largely through injury), there is nothing to suggest it has gone down, either. Selling him now - especially at a loss - really doesn't make sense. Don't forget, Spammers fans bemoaned Michael Carrick when he was 22ish, 'cos he didn't seem to get anything right - and look at the bargain, and profit, we got there. Every footballer (and person) is on their own trajectory, there is no one-size-fits all, and gareth Bale is still in his infancy as a player.

As for Pav/Hunts I have no absolute objection to it, and Hunts could yet turn out to be a great player just needing a break (but there again so could Pav). The crucial factor for me, and in this I disagreewith you, is that we don't really need another striker at the mo - otherwise Pav wouldn't be disgruntled in the first place. Maybies if we are still in the CC, and the FA Cup starts (though Europa would have helped), but then, well, maybies Pav would get a chance and not be disgruntled:shrug:

So, we would probably be getting a better player in Hunts, but would he come under the present circumstances:shrug: Bale should not be sold:-|

 

[SpurSince57]

might find ourselves in a spot of bother if he does get injured.

is Huntelaar really any better Reeeeaaaallllllyyyy? is there any evidence to support this in the last year?

I don't see why.

Yes. I watched him many times for Ajax and, even allowing for the fact that the Eredivisie is largely composed of comedy teams who'd struggle against Orient, he's a superb finisher. He does, however, have similar weaknesses—he doesn't have much pace, doesn't (although he's a big guy) seem to be able to muscle his way past determined defenders and creates sod all. He was none too impressive for Real and hasn't (to put it mildly) pulled up trees for Milan. I hope that removes any idea that I'm a fan.