Racism in Football BBC 1 - Spurs

[Mullers]

To me it's very simple, if it offends don't say it, I don't use the term anyway as I'm not comfortable with it. There are many other chants that can be used. It doesn't matter if some are ok with it, that fact that it offends some is enough of reason to not say it.

 

[TheGreenLily]

David Baddiel is not a comedian, he is a cock!!

Thanks bro, just when I though I could get away with knocking one out, I now have Baddiel smiling back at me.... Can't fucking wait for him to spit now.

Bollocks

 

[TheGreenLily]

Doesn't the word Yid or Yiddish mean brother or something? I have seen people write about this before.

If so, then surely people of all different races and creeds on the terraces all chanting together under a banner that has been turned from a racist slur to positive force of togetherness is only a good thing?

But then that is the problem with the like of people like Baddiel, when you have your head stuck up your own arse spewing forth your righteous bullshit and twisting the truth, it is easier to blame the opposition than have a good look at yourself.

You only have to look at how we spurs fans reacted when FM had is cardiac arrest and how the scum of football with the likes of ****ski and their reaction during the FA Cup semi-final during the minute silence etc. ****s the lot of em, I really do wish all bad things happen to scum like that.

 

[TheGreenLily]

To me it's very simple, if it offends don't say it, I don't use the term anyway as I'm not comfortable with it. There are many other chants that can be used. It doesn't matter if some are ok with it, that fact that it offends some is enough of reason to not say it.

 

[Mullers]

The thing is words do hurt though and there are a lot of ignorant, stupid, racist people around. It's easy to be bullish about free speech if you're not the one on the end of racial insults.

 

[SpursOldBoy]

The thing is words do hurt though and there are a lot of ignorant, stupid, racist people around. It's easy to be bullish about free speech if you're not the one on the end of racial insults.

I understand your sentiment but I think you also have to take the context in the way the word is said. Spurs fans use the chant not as an insult, but as badge of honour. As some have said, the chant itself dates back to the days where Spurs fans fought the black shirts who were looking to persecute the Jewish community.

I am not sure I am comfortable with him making these claims while he turns a blind eye to his own fans, who quite clearly have been (and in some instances still are) racist and instead chooses to misinterpret the meaning behind our chants.

Maybe we should run a poll on SC and see how many people object to it?

 

[TheGreenLily]

The thing is words do hurt though and there are a lot of ignorant, stupid, racist people around. It's easy to be bullish about free speech if you're not the one on the end of racial insults.

I am 6'8 and been on the end of many insults, bullying and the likes growing up, regardless of colour, race, fat, thin, tall, small, ginger, whatever, everybody is someone elses nigger. No matter who you are or what you are, somewhere, someone will hate something about you and this is the only thing that makes everyone on the planet truly equal.

How you deal with it is far more important that what is said, because at what point do you draw the line? Everything you say could be offensive to someone else, does this mean that we can't tell jokes anymore? Does this mean we can't discuss anything in case it offends someone?

Should we live in a dull grey and dreary society devoid of anything that may or may not offend someone? As this is where it is going, as far too many people think they are more special than anyone else and deserve special treatment.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't get the problem with Baddiel ? He didn't say anything overtly anti spurs or come across as skewed or as someone with an agenda.

There is another aspect to this. Football is a tribal sport. By aligning ourselves with a race, and although we do so as a positive response to bigotry, we help perpetuate a hatred of that race. By playing up to the jewish "yids" name, we instantly encourage hatred by everyone else - as football tribes are want to do by nature - of the jewish race.

Apart from anything else, not all of us non jewish people want to sing it or be called it either, any more than I want to sing or be called the N word.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I am 6'8 and been on the end of many insults, bullying and the likes growing up, regardless of colour, race, fat, thin, tall, small, ginger, whatever, everybody is someone elses nigger. No matter who you are or what you are, somewhere, someone will hate something about you and this is the only thing that makes everyone on the planet truly equal.

How you deal with it is far more important that what is said, because at what point do you draw the line? Everything you say could be offensive to someone else, does this mean that we can't tell jokes anymore? Does this mean we can't discuss anything in case it offends someone?

Should we live in a dull grey and dreary society devoid of anything that may or may not offend someone? As this is where it is going, as far too many people think they are more special than anyone else and deserve special treatment.

You are over simplifying a bigger issue. Racism based purely on ignorance infests society and causes unjust treatment of people for no valid reason.

Just because we are all hated by someone does not make it right. People should not pre-judge other people based on a skin colour or ethnicity alone. People should be judged by their words or deeds. Saying "we all do it" doesn't make it right. It's lame. Offending people is not the same as institutionalised, endemic racism which is used to subjugate or control a group mentally and socially.

I happen to think Britain is one of the least racist and best racially integrated countries on this planet, but it still has a long way to go.

 

[Mullers]

I am 6'8 and been on the end of many insults, bullying and the likes growing up, regardless of colour, race, fat, thin, tall, small, ginger, whatever, everybody is someone elses nigger. No matter who you are or what you are, somewhere, someone will hate something about you and this is the only thing that makes everyone on the planet truly equal.

How you deal with it is far more important that what is said, because at what point do you draw the line? Everything you say could be offensive to someone else, does this mean that we can't tell jokes anymore? Does this mean we can't discuss anything in case it offends someone?

Should we live in a dull grey and dreary society devoid of anything that may or may not offend someone? As this is where it is going, as far too many people think they are more special than anyone else and deserve special treatment.

I wouldn't say at all how the victim deals with it is far more important than what is being said at all. The fact that someone, somewhere may hate something about you is not really a good enough reason to ignore racism. Should we let all the racial chanting towards black players continue? Of course not.

It's about common sense, of course issues can be discussed wnen it comes to telling jokes that's a different thing, it depends on the person telling them and who the audience is. Only a bloody idiot would decide to start cracking Jewish jokes to Jewish people they hardly even know. Generally the people who want to tell racist jokes are usually the ones that are most ignorant and racist ones.

 

[Mullers]

I understand your sentiment but I think you also have to take the context in the way the word is said. Spurs fans use the chant not as an insult, but as badge of honour. As some have said, the chant itself dates back to the days where Spurs fans fought the black shirts who were looking to persecute the Jewish community.

I am not sure I am comfortable with him making these claims while he turns a blind eye to his own fans, who quite clearly have been (and in some instances still are) racist and instead chooses to misinterpret the meaning behind our chants.

Maybe we should run a poll on SC and see how many people object to it?

It doesn't matter if spurs fans use the chant not as an insult, I've had the chant directed at me as as insult. His campaign is backed by Ledley King and Frank Lampard.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8450760/Anti-Semitic-abuse-rife-among-football-fans.html

 

[StartingPrice]

I don't get the problem with Baddiel ? He didn't say anything overtly anti spurs or come across as skewed or as someone with an agenda.

There is another aspect to this. Football is a tribal sport. By aligning ourselves with a race, and although we do so as a positive response to bigotry, we help perpetuate a hatred of that race. By playing up to the jewish "yids" name, we instantly encourage hatred by everyone else - as football tribes are want to do by nature - of the jewish race.

Apart from anything else, not all of us non jewish people want to sing it or be called it either, any more than I want to sing or be called the N word.

So people shouldn't have an identity in case bigots hate it?

Like I said, above, if Mr Baddiel (et al) can totally eradictate the hatred and associated taunting from their own quarters, then they may have a case to say that they understand why we adopted it in the first place, but now, surely we could drop it, while still being proud of what gave rise to it.

I am 6'8 and been on the end of many insults, bullying and the likes growing up, regardless of colour, race, fat, thin, tall, small, ginger, whatever, everybody is someone elses nigger. No matter who you are or what you are, somewhere, someone will hate something about you and this is the only thing that makes everyone on the planet truly equal.

How you deal with it is far more important that what is said, because at what point do you draw the line? Everything you say could be offensive to someone else, does this mean that we can't tell jokes anymore? Does this mean we can't discuss anything in case it offends someone?

Should we live in a dull grey and dreary society devoid of anything that may or may not offend someone? As this is where it is going, as far too many people think they are more special than anyone else and deserve special treatment.

I discovered my first white hair when I was fourteen (FOURTEEN FFS ), and by 30 my hair and eyebrows were more white than anything. I absolutely hate those Grecian 2000 adds, they imply I am somehow less vital than normal men. I also get jokes from mates like do sit with a bottle of tipex whiting your eyebrows out! Where do I sign up.

 

[riggi]

Lets face it, the word would of largely died of years ago if we diddnt adopt it.

Im on the fence btw, im sure alot of jewish kids feel good about a whole staduim coming together to chant yid army rather than go to school anf have people reel of south park jokes.

 

[Mattspur]

Looks like this subject won't go away. Nor should it.

I've made my views on this subject clear on a number of occasions and have been shouted down every time by non Jews who just can't help but show support for my religion and race by using abusive words which said anywhere other than WHL would be treated in the way they should.

It was easy to laugh at Liverpool when all their fans were blindly showing support to Suarez.

 

[Mullers]

Lets face it, the word would of largely died of years ago if we diddnt adopt it.

Im on the fence btw, im sure alot of jewish kids feel good about a whole staduim coming together to chant yid army rather than go to school anf have people reel of south park jokes.

Really and how would you know this?

 

[StartingPrice]

A poll to see how many actually feel that if we stopped referring to ourselves as Yids would prevent the Nazis amongstthe Chelsea fans from being bigotted retards, or if it will stop them being bigoted retards who hate us as a Jewish club. And if they would stop hating us as a Jewish club is we stopped referring to ourselves as Yids, what would the time scale be - 10 years later, 50?

 

[Mullers]

Looks like this subject won't go away. Nor should it.

I've made my views on this subject clear on a number of occasions and have been shouted down every time by non Jews who just can't help but show support for my religion and race by using abusive words which said anywhere other than WHL would be treated in the way they should.

It was easy to laugh at Liverpool when all their fans were blindly showing support to Suarez.

This.

 

[StartingPrice]

Looks like this subject won't go away. Nor should it.

I've made my views on this subject clear on a number of occasions and have been shouted down every time by non Jews who just can't help but show support for my religion and race by using abusive words which said anywhere other than WHL would be treated in the way they should.

It was easy to laugh at Liverpool when all their fans were blindly showing support to Suarez.

Mattspur...if you find it offensive youa re entitled to your view. But no-one is blindly showing support to a player who has been racist, like the Liverpool fans did. There are some very cnmplex arguments connected with this issue. As I have stated, above, there are Jewish Spurs fans who have absolutely no problem with this, or are quite happy with it. And there are non-Spurs supporting Jews who have absolutely no problem with it.

For perspective, I guess I do it because I always have and everyone else does. If there as some kind of genuine concensus that we shouldn't do it, and not some half-arsed argument by David Baddiel, I am sure I could live without it. But I think Spurs fans should know and be proud of why it was taken up in the first place, and the Nazi Chelsea fans should know and be ashamed of what they did/do.

 

[riggi]

Really and how would you know this?

Ive spoken to some in Israel and ive seen them join in with the chants at park lane.

All i hear about Jews outside of the spurs fanbase, is they're greedy, war mongering weirdos. The amount of anti semetic abuse thats just accepted as a joke is ridiclous. People openly calling eachother greedy jews and having jew noses. What do we see on tv? Family guy taking the piss aswell as South Park. Imo these shows are alot worse than Spurs fans calling themselves Yids. How many jewish people feel unsafe to wear their Kippahs at WHL?

 

[riggi]

Ive gotta say, ive been to Stamford Bridge the past 3 seasons and not heard one anti semetic chant etc. Im not saying it doesnt happen, i just dont believe its as bigger epidemic as is being portrayed.