Ratings vs Aston Villa

[davidmatzdorf]

I think we need a moratorium on the word "average", meaning "bad". I lost count of the misuses of this once-useful word on this thread after it was used thoughtlessly in about 12 posts.

It doesn't mean "crap". It isn't a criticism or a negative description. It means "in the middle". Roughly and non-mathematically speaking, it means that there were as many inferior players as there were superior players (strictly speaking that would be the "median", but this isn't a maths lesson).

People who blab out "average" as a vague criticism are similar to people whose sole descriptor for a player who has had a bad game is "poor", often meaning, oddly enough, about "average".

It's a general point. Make a fucking effort! Express yourself. Barfing out lazy clichés is, well, lazy. And lazy is bad. If you have something to say, find a word that means what you think. When you stop to think about it, it's an article of self-respect.

 

[Borks]

I do think people take players like Eriksen for granted when doing these kind of votes and I include myself in that having voted for Dembele. We become so used to Eriksen being quality that you always look for the other option or the 'unsung' option when voting. Eriksen is always good and actually he only stands out when he has a poor game. So it always seems like he gets more flak than he should.

Same for a lot of players over the years like Carrick, Berbatov, Modric. Their status of being quality players that no fan would criticise only seemed to happen after they left...

"Eriksen is always good"

Oh come on. This is the exact reason why I spend so much time on the opposing side of the argument, because of how much shit like this I have to read (or hear from commentators EVERY time he steps up for a set piece).

Eriksen is far from always good. He has very few moments of magic and he should have loads more assists than he does for someone that is supposedly the creative AM. Yes he can score goals but he scored less than Chadli in the league and all competitions last season (very few gush over him). Yes he often finds a man in space before the assist but playing a simple 5-10 yard pass to an open player doesn't make him great, if we want to talk about someone that can consistently pinpoint a pass, let's talk about how great Toby is because he really is accurate.

It's funny because watching the game last night there was a Lamela shot that did fuck all and the crowd screamed "Argggggghhh" yet when Eriksen blazed one over the bar or whatever it was they screamed "Oooohhhhhh". Sounds stupid but this kid can literally go missing for half a season (which he's done before) and still be the greatest thing since sliced bread to you guys. It's different to Lamela because even the most pro-Lamela fans will admit he was poor for ages but is adjusting well now whereas Eriksen gets very little of that.

Your post reminds me of when we played Palace a while back and Eriksen made some simple 5 yard straight pass for the goal after Lamela won the ball back by our box and one (or some) on here was going on and on about how amazing the pass was and how he's the catalyst for everything we do. Fucking yawn.

At best he's only ever going to be a poor man's Hazard/Sanchez, he gets caught on the ball too much and needs too much space to ever be compared with players like Modric (who I dislike but was infinitely better with the ball).

We have a number of players with a higher ceiling than Eriksen and the only reason he will ever become a Spurs 'legend' is because some fans refuse to accept he can do anything wrong. I completely understand I'm in the minority here but it pains me to hear such crap.

 

[Bulletspur]

I think we need a moratorium on the word "average", meaning "bad". I lost count of the misuses of this once-useful word on this thread after it was used thoughtlessly in about 12 posts.

It doesn't mean "crap". It isn't a criticism or a negative description. It means "in the middle". Roughly and non-mathematically speaking, it means that there were as many inferior players as there were superior players (strictly speaking that would be the "median", but this isn't a maths lesson).

People who blab out "average" as a vague criticism are similar to people whose sole descriptor for a player who has had a bad game is "poor", often meaning, oddly enough, about "average".

It's a general point. Make a fucking effort! Express yourself. Barfing out lazy clichés is, well, lazy. And lazy is bad. If you have something to say, find a word that means what you think. When you stop to think about it, it's an article of self-respect.

Wicked spliff! Sensimilla or Columbian gold?

 

[glospur]

Oh dude, gimme a break will ya. fuck. I threw out there that I noticed he had some heavy touches but I didn't state this was the one and only reason that I thought he had a poor game. The heavy touches was just the one example I gave. I mean it's not like i've called for Lamela to be flogged in the streets and then strung up up for his crimes to football.

God forbit anyone criticise Lamela this season when in the past you could barely find anyone to defend the kid!

I don't particularly care that it was about Lamela, but nice way to deflect from the actual point. It was a point in general about how people use an erroneous stats based argument to criticise a players performance but then dismiss the actual stats when they're presented and say things like 'stats don't tell the whole story.' It's completely contradictory when the premise of the intial argument was grounded in statistics.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't know if I can comment on the season as a whole without going back and analysing it. But as I say though I think we are currently missing someone who can keep us ticking over when we are under pressure. So far this duo hasn't managed it in the few times they/we have been put under pressure (as I said, the Europa games are the best example), in fact they've really made no attempt to and disappeared out of the game entirely. Maybe starting Sunday they will prove me wrong, but its a concern looking ahead to tougher tests.

Personally I don't think Alli has actually played that well overall in the last 2/3 games, and for me Mason (if fit and up to speed) is ahead of him still in the pecking order.

I think it is especially relevant as Poch doesn't waver from the CM2 4231 format. In a 433 you could accommodate Alli and give him the license to do his bombing on. In a CM2 you have to have some "tick over capability" and in an ideal world, preferably from both.

 

[cliff jones]

Difficult call for mom. Thought nobody played better than par, we were sloppy in possession all over the pitch and eriksen, lamela in particular provided little craft. All this despite scoring goals at key junctures against an already deflated opponent.

Most of us must have thought wed got our tottenham back when gestede connected with that header, but this time we got away with it and id settle for playing shite if it means three points more often.

We desperately need sons off the ball runs to provide variety in attack, he could give us so much more playing on the counter at their place on sunday.

Likely hk has to play 270mins in six days. dier too? weve been levyed. So have they.

 

[Borks]

Difficult call for mom. Thought nobody played better than par, we were sloppy in possession all over the pitch and eriksen, lamela in particular provided little craft. All this despite scoring goals at key junctures against an already deflated opponent.

Most of us must have thought wed got our tottenham back when gestede connected with that header, but this time we got away with it and id settle for playing shite if it means three points more often.

We desperately need sons off the ball runs to provide variety in attack, he could give us so much more playing on the counter at their place on sunday.

Likely hk has to play 270mins in six days. dier too? weve been levyed. So have they.

It's funny because after we beat Villa I thought to myself how everyone has gone quiet on the Levy front after lambasting him over the transfer window. 10 unbeaten in the league and 1 point off the top 4, there was me wondering if Levy would get some credit given how often everything that goes wrong is his fault but no, we're still moaning.

 

[Cavehillspur]

Rose -5

Think I must've been watching a different game, Rose was excellent

 

[sly1]

I actually think Eriksen had a great game and provided really important work for our goals. He barely lost the ball and worked quietly hard as per usual.

I agree. And he also got the Modric-ey "assist for the assist" for all of our goals.

 

[JonnySpurs]

I don't particularly care that it was about Lamela, but nice way to deflect from the actual point. It was a point in general about how people use an erroneous stats based argument to criticise a players performance but then dismiss the actual stats when they're presented and say things like 'stats don't tell the whole story.' It's completely contradictory when the premise of the intial argument was grounded in statistics.

But that's not fair when I wasn't trying to make a "stats based argument" as you claim I was, simply because I provided a single example about his heavy touches. I wouldn't have even considered "heavy touches" to be something that is tracked from a stats perspective anyway so how can I possibly be basing my whole critique of his performance based on stats.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the point you're trying to make but I reject your premise in how it relates to my original comment. If you want to make a general point then do it without replying to someone's post first, then it won't get linked back to it when it's not appropriately relevant.

If that's still not floating your boat then let's just agree to disagree yeah.

 

[Borks]

Think I must've been watching a different game, Rose was excellent

I rewatched the game and after initially thinking Rose had an ok game he was actually involved in so much more than I gave him credit for. He was showing for everything on the left side and put the cross in for the 2nd goal so I completely agree with you.

 

[gp13tot]

Lloris 6

Walker 7
Rose 6.5
Toby 6.5
Jan 7.5

Dier 8
Dembele 8
Alli 7.5
Lamela 7.5
Eriksen 7.5

Kane 6

Mason 6.5
Davies 6
Onomah 7

 

[cliff jones]

It's funny because after we beat Villa I thought to myself how everyone has gone quiet on the Levy front after lambasting him over the transfer window. 10 unbeaten in the league and 1 point off the top 4, there was me wondering if Levy would get some credit given how often everything that goes wrong is his fault but no, we're still moaning.

Im still moaning, because once again he fuked up signing a key player, and that is amplified by chelskis unlikely fall from grace. A quality cf to compete with hk would see us in a terrific position right now. Lets come back to this after november, not after squeaking past villa.

 

[cliff jones]

"Eriksen is always good"

Oh come on. This is the exact reason why I spend so much time on the opposing side of the argument, because of how much shit like this I have to read (or hear from commentators EVERY time he steps up for a set piece).

Eriksen is far from always good. He has very few moments of magic and he should have loads more assists than he does for someone that is supposedly the creative AM. Yes he can score goals but he scored less than Chadli in the league and all competitions last season (very few gush over him). Yes he often finds a man in space before the assist but playing a simple 5-10 yard pass to an open player doesn't make him great, if we want to talk about someone that can consistently pinpoint a pass, let's talk about how great Toby is because he really is accurate.

It's funny because watching the game last night there was a Lamela shot that did fuck all and the crowd screamed "Argggggghhh" yet when Eriksen blazed one over the bar or whatever it was they screamed "Oooohhhhhh". Sounds stupid but this kid can literally go missing for half a season (which he's done before) and still be the greatest thing since sliced bread to you guys. It's different to Lamela because even the most pro-Lamela fans will admit he was poor for ages but is adjusting well now whereas Eriksen gets very little of that.

Your post reminds me of when we played Palace a while back and Eriksen made some simple 5 yard straight pass for the goal after Lamela won the ball back by our box and one (or some) on here was going on and on about how amazing the pass was and how he's the catalyst for everything we do. Fucking yawn.

At best he's only ever going to be a poor man's Hazard/Sanchez, he gets caught on the ball too much and needs too much space to ever be compared with players like Modric (who I dislike but was infinitely better with the ball).

We have a number of players with a higher ceiling than Eriksen and the only reason he will ever become a Spurs 'legend' is because some fans refuse to accept he can do anything wrong. I completely understand I'm in the minority here but it pains me to hear such crap.

You seem partial to a good moan yourself. eriksen is inconsistent and didnt play well on monday. But hes a key paft of the squad who contributed decisively v swansea and bornmuff. dont compare him with toby, who passes from completely different positions often under little pressure, even if he does it very well.

 

[Borks]

You seem partial to a good moan yourself. eriksen is inconsistent and didnt play well on monday. But hes a key paft of the squad who contributed decisively v swansea and bornmuff. dont compare him with toby, who passes from completely different positions often under little pressure, even if he does it very well.

I do love a good moan but I don't really understand your point? The post I quoted stated that Eriksen always plays well, which you have said isn't true.

I fully understand what Eriksen contributes but I fail to understand the need for everyone to obsessively tell us how amazing he is all the time when the Eriksen that I watch week in week out has moments of brilliance when taking free kicks but a general habit of completely drifting out of games. I'd much rather have Willian at Spurs.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

I do love a good moan but I don't really understand your point? The post I quoted stated that Eriksen always plays well, which you have said isn't true.

I fully understand what Eriksen contributes but I fail to understand the need for everyone to obsessively tell us how amazing he is all the time when the Eriksen that I watch week in week out has moments of brilliance when taking free kicks but a general habit of completely drifting out of games. I'd much rather have Willian at Spurs.

I hope Willian in wondering if he should have made that decision too….

 

[double0]

William is a more hard working player a better Dembele maybe imo Eriksen has more creative flair. I wouldnt compare the two...Oscar is a better comparison.

 

[cliff jones]

I do love a good moan but I don't really understand your point? The post I quoted stated that Eriksen always plays well, which you have said isn't true.

I fully understand what Eriksen contributes but I fail to understand the need for everyone to obsessively tell us how amazing he is all the time when the Eriksen that I watch week in week out has moments of brilliance when taking free kicks but a general habit of completely drifting out of games. I'd much rather have Willian at Spurs.

Ah, but you then went into scapegoating overdrive, saying he very rarely produces, disappears for half a season etc... So i thought id stick my oar back in and encourage you to be more rational.

Willians having a good spell, no doubt, but until this season imo looked anything but a 30mill player. Eriksen cost one third of that, probably for a reason.

 

[npearl4spurs]

Lloris - 6
Walker - 7
Alderweireld - 7
Vertonghen - 8 (I don't fault him for the deflection)
Rose - 7
Dier - 8 MOM
Alli - 7
Lamela - 8
Dembele - 8
Eriksen - 7
Kane - 7
Mason - NET
Davies - NET
Onomah - NET
Poch - 8 (Subs were good and the team was rested and ready to play)

I thought Lamela had a pretty good game, about average, like a 6 before 80' on. He really impressed me then. Toby and Jan are a fantastic pairing...both are great at tackling and especially at interceptions. Maybe both need to work on their blocks more? I thought Walker played a very good game too...if he could add anything at all to the attack, he would consistently be in the running for more MOMs because defensively he has taken it to another level this year.

Onomah needs some more minutes.