Ratings vs Aston Villa

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

MOTM pfftt…

The early goal, entirely made for himself by Dembele meant Villa were stuck in a collective tactical mind fuck, they now knew they couldn't just sit back but I'm guessing they'd spent all week working on "shape" and "organisation" and wotnot, things that 8 months of Sherwood have become anathema, and their tactical confusion should have played into our hands.

The early goal for a team that, if we are to believe everything we hear and know, wants to press high and hard and transition like the wind, should be nirvana. Instead we made fucking heavy weather of it.

I applaud the front four for their endeavour, and this is vital, it is one of the components that is helping us become a harder side to play against. But all them were wasteful, clumsy and careless. I've actually watched that first half again and we don't create a single clear cut chance for anyone. Dembele makes his own goal and Alli's is the result of a fortunate box ricochet. And creatively I'm pretty sure, up to the moment Lamela rolls the ball for Kane's goal, nobody else created a clear chance for a team mate in the second half either.

All of you who are likely to wet the bed if I don't declare Dier and Alli to be the best pair of slices of CM wonder bread ever better look away now. How Sky picked Alli out for MOTM or anyone on here can do the same for Dier is baffling, but let me stress again, I think picking anyone out last night as being head and shoulders better than anyone else would be a travesty, and these two equally as anyone else.

What did they have to do first half ? Villa were fucking confused/abject hybrid. What we needed was at least one CM to get on the ball and start dictating some tempo, play, move, pass, move, give, go, babing babing, babang, babang. Alli is fabulous at "bombing on", he is a bomber onner par excellence, and for 60 minutes he did bomb on exceedingly well, but a lot of what he did when the ball found him in bombed on positions was clumsy inconsequential.

When CB's needed alternative out balls he'd invariably "bombed on" and was standing next to Dembele or Eriksen. Dier on the other hand was the reverse, several times I noted him nonchalantly strolling himself just out of reach of the CB, meaning hurried balls were either humped or more often played to FB's who had men up their arses, who then had to turn back on themselves play hap hazard balls up the line, which resulted in more hap hazard sloppy play from the forwards.

And when Villa were eventually defibrillated into life in the second half and we were desperate to get hold of the ball, Dier virtually attached himself to Vertonghen's shorts and spent almost thirty minutes in our "D" - he received the ball 8 times in the last 34 minutes. Alli on the other hand by now had decided to camp in their "D". It was a horrible phase and stunk of "Stoke".

Just like our forwards, who were wasteful and created pretty much the square root of fuck all tangibly intelligent, Dier and Alli do have redeeming features. I am not saying they don't. But lots of Alli's play is very reminiscent of what Paulinho used to do (not much busy ****, lots of bombing on, plenty of clumsy wastefulness and the odd goal) and I don't remember him getting quite so much love and respect. And likewise Dier and Capoue. I appreciate that Alli is 19 and therefore we must appreciate that if he is equalling Paulinho's contribution now, it possibly bodes well for the future if he develops. Likewise Dier can be defensively robust, he's also positionally quite good at times and I can see him telling others what and where to do and these qualities are infectious and not to be underrated.

Walker seems to have given up attacking period. The payoff for that though is that when he concentrates all his pea brain into defending he's actually much better at it.

Rose was a mixed bag of his omnipresent puffy chested gusto and some of the also often present carelessness and less than diligent defending.

Loving the Belgy CB pairing. They are melding into one very impregnable unit - Aldertonghen - Most games go by without these two being noticed. usually a good sign for CB's.

The 3rd goal was also the best thing we did offensively all night. It was a slick move that went from back to front and was nice that Onomah played a small part in it. Will hopefully give the kid a lift.

But my overriding view, and the thing I like most, in fact I like very much about this side is it's collective spirit and ethos. Amongst my grumbles of the careless fuckwittery from the forwards, the complaints about the lack of metronomity (it's my post and I'll fucking make up words of I want) from our CM's, I am finding myself really liking this Spurs. It's the least lazy one I can ever remember. Youthful naivety is at least matched if not bettered by youthful exuberance and collective spirit. You get the distinct impression there are no billy big bollock charlie potato head egos in our dressing room.

I think we are becoming a team, for all it's foibles, that is a TEAM. I don't believe we are harder to beat because Dier is in CM or because Walker is now only playing in his half or because we have possibly the best CB pairing right now in the EPL or because we have a hard working front four for the first time in years. I think it is all these things.

I agree with a lot of this and in particular the part about Alli. I like the kid, he definitely has a lot of talent, but right now I would play Mason above him. Hopefully Alli develops to offer more control of matches from a deep lying midfield position but I feel he's just running on adrenaline at the moment. He doesn't play with much discipline or intelligence but i'm sure that will come with experience and age.

 

[JonnySpurs]

This is one thing I've never understood. Your initial argument on why the player was poor was a stats based argument; you said he had a 'lot of heavy touches.' People whose job it is to record how often these things happen in a game post their data online; it's not subjective, there is no bias in statistics. I find it baffling how some people then dismiss the primary evidence that directly contradicts their initial assertion; as though they were collecting the analysis themselves because it doesn't fit their narrative. I would understand it if your argument was based on a premise that might be considered intangible or subjective but it wasn't, it was one that was built on something that can be tangibly and categorically measured and, ultimately, something that was found to be categorically incorrect.

Oh dude, gimme a break will ya. fuck. I threw out there that I noticed he had some heavy touches but I didn't state this was the one and only reason that I thought he had a poor game. The heavy touches was just the one example I gave. I mean it's not like i've called for Lamela to be flogged in the streets and then strung up up for his crimes to football.

God forbit anyone criticise Lamela this season when in the past you could barely find anyone to defend the kid!

 

[JonnySpurs]

But its the full backs that provide that in this set up mate. We play three attacking midfielders behind Kane as it stands but the full backs are the ones who get wide and stretch the play.

But when Son returns I think he offers us more pace and directness in one of those positions, so we'll look more lively.

I dont disagree at all dude and I wasn't meaning to suggest Lamela has done anything wrong when he plays on the right, I just like him better in the middle. Like you say, I far prefer Son in a wide position for us cos i feel that he will go to the byline as much as he will cut inside.

 

[JonnySpurs]

Hmm




And that's just the last page haha

Oh jeez. Ok, let me re-phrase.....

i can't speak for anyone else about saying Lamela was shit but I personally wasn't saying he was that bad.

 

[Mr Pink]

I dont disagree at all dude and I wasn't meaning to suggest Lamela has done anything wrong when he plays on the right, I just like him better in the middle. Like you say, I far prefer Son in a wide position for us cos i feel that he will go to the byline as much as he will cut inside.

Yeah I like him in central positions as well.

 

[dudu]

People moaning about Dembele passing back so often clearly looked at the stats, and didn't bother to watch the game. Villa were more than happy to sit extremely deep so as not to get battered. Dembele played most of the game with his back to goal and was a constant outlet its why we maintained possession so well, and is no wonder he played so many balls backwards.

As for the performance we did what was required and clearly had another couple of gears had we needed them. I'm more than. Happy for us to play within ourselves, when we have two important games coming so close together.

Thought Rose was better, but I still worry he leaves too much space when he jaunts fotward. Arsenal will have a field day if he plays that way on Sunday.

Sorry Trix, I did watch the game as I do all of them - Dembele does definitely tend to err on the passing backwards of the ball more than most - regardless of who we are playing and what position he is in.

Not saying he played badly, just that he wasnt really creating much offensively, in arguably the most creative position on the pitch.

 

[Peters]

MOTM pfftt…

The early goal, entirely made for himself by Dembele meant Villa were stuck in a collective tactical mind fuck, they now knew they couldn't just sit back but I'm guessing they'd spent all week working on "shape" and "organisation" and wotnot, things that 8 months of Sherwood have become anathema, and their tactical confusion should have played into our hands.

The early goal for a team that, if we are to believe everything we hear and know, wants to press high and hard and transition like the wind, should be nirvana. Instead we made fucking heavy weather of it.

I applaud the front four for their endeavour, and this is vital, it is one of the components that is helping us become a harder side to play against. But all them were wasteful, clumsy and careless. I've actually watched that first half again and we don't create a single clear cut chance for anyone. Dembele makes his own goal and Alli's is the result of a fortunate box ricochet. And creatively I'm pretty sure, up to the moment Lamela rolls the ball for Kane's goal, nobody else created a clear chance for a team mate in the second half either.

All of you who are likely to wet the bed if I don't declare Dier and Alli to be the best pair of slices of CM wonder bread ever better look away now. How Sky picked Alli out for MOTM or anyone on here can do the same for Dier is baffling, but let me stress again, I think picking anyone out last night as being head and shoulders better than anyone else would be a travesty, and these two equally as anyone else.

What did they have to do first half ? Villa were fucking confused/abject hybrid. What we needed was at least one CM to get on the ball and start dictating some tempo, play, move, pass, move, give, go, babing babing, babang, babang. Alli is fabulous at "bombing on", he is a bomber onner par excellence, and for 60 minutes he did bomb on exceedingly well, but a lot of what he did when the ball found him in bombed on positions was clumsy inconsequential.

When CB's needed alternative out balls he'd invariably "bombed on" and was standing next to Dembele or Eriksen. Dier on the other hand was the reverse, several times I noted him nonchalantly strolling himself just out of reach of the CB, meaning hurried balls were either humped or more often played to FB's who had men up their arses, who then had to turn back on themselves play hap hazard balls up the line, which resulted in more hap hazard sloppy play from the forwards.

And when Villa were eventually defibrillated into life in the second half and we were desperate to get hold of the ball, Dier virtually attached himself to Vertonghen's shorts and spent almost thirty minutes in our "D" - he received the ball 8 times in the last 34 minutes. Alli on the other hand by now had decided to camp in their "D". It was a horrible phase and stunk of "Stoke".

Just like our forwards, who were wasteful and created pretty much the square root of fuck all tangibly intelligent, Dier and Alli do have redeeming features. I am not saying they don't. But lots of Alli's play is very reminiscent of what Paulinho used to do (not much busy ****, lots of bombing on, plenty of clumsy wastefulness and the odd goal) and I don't remember him getting quite so much love and respect. And likewise Dier and Capoue. I appreciate that Alli is 19 and therefore we must appreciate that if he is equalling Paulinho's contribution now, it possibly bodes well for the future if he develops. Likewise Dier can be defensively robust, he's also positionally quite good at times and I can see him telling others what and where to do and these qualities are infectious and not to be underrated.

Walker seems to have given up attacking period. The payoff for that though is that when he concentrates all his pea brain into defending he's actually much better at it.

Rose was a mixed bag of his omnipresent puffy chested gusto and some of the also often present carelessness and less than diligent defending.

Loving the Belgy CB pairing. They are melding into one very impregnable unit - Aldertonghen - Most games go by without these two being noticed. usually a good sign for CB's.

The 3rd goal was also the best thing we did offensively all night. It was a slick move that went from back to front and was nice that Onomah played a small part in it. Will hopefully give the kid a lift.

But my overriding view, and the thing I like most, in fact I like very much about this side is it's collective spirit and ethos. Amongst my grumbles of the careless fuckwittery from the forwards, the complaints about the lack of metronomity (it's my post and I'll fucking make up words of I want) from our CM's, I am finding myself really liking this Spurs. It's the least lazy one I can ever remember. Youthful naivety is at least matched if not bettered by youthful exuberance and collective spirit. You get the distinct impression there are no billy big bollock charlie potato head egos in our dressing room.

I think we are becoming a team, for all it's foibles, that is a TEAM. I don't believe we are harder to beat because Dier is in CM or because Walker is now only playing in his half or because we have possibly the best CB pairing right now in the EPL or because we have a hard working front four for the first time in years. I think it is all these things.

It looks like your medication kicked in for the last 4 paragraphs. I was expecting you to take a dig at Vertonghen for turning his back on Ayew instead of facing up to him.....no lazy careless fuckwittery there then?

 

[dudu]

MOTM pfftt…

The early goal, entirely made for himself by Dembele meant Villa were stuck in a collective tactical mind fuck, they now knew they couldn't just sit back but I'm guessing they'd spent all week working on "shape" and "organisation" and wotnot, things that 8 months of Sherwood have become anathema, and their tactical confusion should have played into our hands.

The early goal for a team that, if we are to believe everything we hear and know, wants to press high and hard and transition like the wind, should be nirvana. Instead we made fucking heavy weather of it.

I applaud the front four for their endeavour, and this is vital, it is one of the components that is helping us become a harder side to play against. But all them were wasteful, clumsy and careless. I've actually watched that first half again and we don't create a single clear cut chance for anyone. Dembele makes his own goal and Alli's is the result of a fortunate box ricochet. And creatively I'm pretty sure, up to the moment Lamela rolls the ball for Kane's goal, nobody else created a clear chance for a team mate in the second half either.

All of you who are likely to wet the bed if I don't declare Dier and Alli to be the best pair of slices of CM wonder bread ever better look away now. How Sky picked Alli out for MOTM or anyone on here can do the same for Dier is baffling, but let me stress again, I think picking anyone out last night as being head and shoulders better than anyone else would be a travesty, and these two equally as anyone else.

What did they have to do first half ? Villa were fucking confused/abject hybrid. What we needed was at least one CM to get on the ball and start dictating some tempo, play, move, pass, move, give, go, babing babing, babang, babang. Alli is fabulous at "bombing on", he is a bomber onner par excellence, and for 60 minutes he did bomb on exceedingly well, but a lot of what he did when the ball found him in bombed on positions was clumsy inconsequential.

When CB's needed alternative out balls he'd invariably "bombed on" and was standing next to Dembele or Eriksen. Dier on the other hand was the reverse, several times I noted him nonchalantly strolling himself just out of reach of the CB, meaning hurried balls were either humped or more often played to FB's who had men up their arses, who then had to turn back on themselves play hap hazard balls up the line, which resulted in more hap hazard sloppy play from the forwards.

And when Villa were eventually defibrillated into life in the second half and we were desperate to get hold of the ball, Dier virtually attached himself to Vertonghen's shorts and spent almost thirty minutes in our "D" - he received the ball 8 times in the last 34 minutes. Alli on the other hand by now had decided to camp in their "D". It was a horrible phase and stunk of "Stoke".

Just like our forwards, who were wasteful and created pretty much the square root of fuck all tangibly intelligent, Dier and Alli do have redeeming features. I am not saying they don't. But lots of Alli's play is very reminiscent of what Paulinho used to do (not much busy ****, lots of bombing on, plenty of clumsy wastefulness and the odd goal) and I don't remember him getting quite so much love and respect. And likewise Dier and Capoue. I appreciate that Alli is 19 and therefore we must appreciate that if he is equalling Paulinho's contribution now, it possibly bodes well for the future if he develops. Likewise Dier can be defensively robust, he's also positionally quite good at times and I can see him telling others what and where to do and these qualities are infectious and not to be underrated.

Walker seems to have given up attacking period. The payoff for that though is that when he concentrates all his pea brain into defending he's actually much better at it.

Rose was a mixed bag of his omnipresent puffy chested gusto and some of the also often present carelessness and less than diligent defending.

Loving the Belgy CB pairing. They are melding into one very impregnable unit - Aldertonghen - Most games go by without these two being noticed. usually a good sign for CB's.

The 3rd goal was also the best thing we did offensively all night. It was a slick move that went from back to front and was nice that Onomah played a small part in it. Will hopefully give the kid a lift.

But my overriding view, and the thing I like most, in fact I like very much about this side is it's collective spirit and ethos. Amongst my grumbles of the careless fuckwittery from the forwards, the complaints about the lack of metronomity (it's my post and I'll fucking make up words of I want) from our CM's, I am finding myself really liking this Spurs. It's the least lazy one I can ever remember. Youthful naivety is at least matched if not bettered by youthful exuberance and collective spirit. You get the distinct impression there are no billy big bollock charlie potato head egos in our dressing room.

I think we are becoming a team, for all it's foibles, that is a TEAM. I don't believe we are harder to beat because Dier is in CM or because Walker is now only playing in his half or because we have possibly the best CB pairing right now in the EPL or because we have a hard working front four for the first time in years. I think it is all these things.

Good write up - agree with what you say about Dier today too.

He was not only instructing people defensively but a couple of times offensively too - when trying to release the ball a little quicker but players (i rememeber Walker at one point) not making the run.

I have to agree with you as well about the general temperament of the team too. It feels good to feel good about our team again.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I dont disagree at all dude and I wasn't meaning to suggest Lamela has done anything wrong when he plays on the right, I just like him better in the middle. Like you say, I far prefer Son in a wide position for us cos i feel that he will go to the byline as much as he will cut inside.

I like Lamela on either side - from a defensive standpoint. I think he gives more help defensively than any of the other AMs.

Creatively though, he is better in the middle - I suppose starting on the left and drifting in is probably the best of both worlds, though it does make it harder for him to hit Walker on an overlap down the right side (once Lamela cuts in).

 

[spurs mental]

I agree with a lot of this and in particular the part about Alli. I like the kid, he definitely has a lot of talent, but right now I would play Mason above him. Hopefully Alli develops to offer more control of matches from a deep lying midfield position but I feel he's just running on adrenaline at the moment. He doesn't play with much discipline or intelligence but i'm sure that will come with experience and age.

With you on this. Think Mason would be better on Sunday away at the Wanderers for the reasons you (and BC) mention.

Alli will be more suited to the game v West Ham and Chelsea.

Great and everything Alli is, he's one booking away from a suspension and that will definitely come on Sunday.

 

[SteveH]

Got better when Dembele went off (make of that what you will)

He needs to have the ball quickly before walls are built especially stuck on the right and the ball moved around a lot quicker once Dembele (and subsequently Alli) went off.

Mason has been ragged on because of his part in their goal (Alli lost the ball just before Mason but we'll forget that) but his passing between the lines and one two touch just makes us a better unit, it moves the opposition around much quicker and creates space and openings. He made 3 top passes pinged into feet that took men out of the game, and lead to the player receiving the ball being turned and immediately attacking their back line but for some reason people don't see that as creative.

Can't remember a single pass Alli or Dembele made that created space, a quick move or a chance TBH.
But one does pretty nutmegs and the other nice body swerves which is more important. (and yes I know they both scored)

It's all about opinion and perceptions - we won 3-1 last night and I still felt we were very flat performance wise.

 

[Trix]

It's all about opinion and perceptions - we won 3-1 last night and I still felt we were very flat performance wise.

3 games in 7 days, did you expect us to be all guns blazing when we were comfortable for most of the game?

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Mason has been ragged on because of his part in their goal (Alli lost the ball just before Mason but we'll forget that) but his passing between the lines and one two touch just makes us a better unit, it moves the opposition around much quicker and creates space and openings. He made 3 top passes pinged into feet that took men out of the game, and lead to the player receiving the ball being turned and immediately attacking their back line but for some reason people don't see that as creative.

Can't remember a single pass Alli or Dembele made that created space, a quick move or a chance TBH.
But one does pretty nutmegs and the other nice body swerves which is more important. (and yes I know they both scored)

Spot on. What we were crying out for last night was people to play passes quickly in the final third or to beat a man. Only Mason did the former and when Dembele did the latter he scored. Bottom line is WE REALLY MISS SON !!!

 

[SteveH]

3 games in 7 days, did you expect us to be all guns blazing when we were comfortable for most of the game?

Yes I know and it makes sense and I hope that was the reason!

 

[only1waddle]

It is a common occurrence though (Europa games the best example) that when we are on the back foot and need someone to get a foot on the ball and try to wrestle some control back for us in the centre of the park that Alli and Dier haven't done that. I think BC is correct in that. Two very good prospects and I'm happy with most of what they are doing, but I'd like to see them tick another box and do, well what I perceive to be, the 'right things' and hopefully settle things down and take charge of the centre of the park when we are finding it tough. Not really happened so far.

I think better movement in general and playing out from the back should be top of Pochettino's list, I love the fact we are working our bollocks off, and also unbeaten in 10, but we are pretty poor with the ball at times.

 

[only1waddle]

Yes I know and it makes sense and I hope that was the reason!

I think Pochettino has learnt the lessons of last season, poor after Europa games and we burnt out towards the end, with a few injuries thrown in I think he already has an eye on the Arsenal game, he gets how important it is to us.

 

[Lenn0n]

Interesting player Lamela - he does enough bad stuff to stir up the critics - and yet he has a lot of support out there. For me he is too gangly and uncoordinated for a top player. However he has something. I think on just a few occasions sees the flow of a player and can play a truly perfect pass - thats when he is at his best. Incidentally his pass to Kane was good but not great. Slightly behind Kane. Kane had enough class to convert.

 

[lukespurs7]

Dier and Walker were outstanding.
We had a good first half and then threatened to throw it all away in the 2nd half as we completely took our foot off the gas.
Alli and Dembele finding some real form and great finish from Kane.
Think Lamela can still offer more and Rose and Eriksen were fairly quiet.
Son and N'Jie back will help.
Good result and on to two more big games this week.
COYS!

Lloris - 7
Walker -8
Toby -6
Jan -6
Rose -5

Dier -8
Alli -7.5

Dembele 7
Lamela -6
Eriksen 6.5

Kane -7

 

[Bus-Conductor]

My unease would be that they don't even look like they are trying to do it though, if that makes sense. They're kind of passing the buck and expecting someone else to do it. I don't want to turn this into comparing players or a discussion on them, I use it only as an example, but Bentaleb for instance, even if he is having a poor game and misplacing passes, very rarely hides and is always available for the ball. Say what you want but he is brave in terms of being available for the ball no matter what the situation. Maybe I'm asking too much but I think we need to coax that out of others too.

I think better movement in general and playing out from the back should be top of Pochettino's list, I love the fact we are working our bollocks off, and also unbeaten in 10, but we are pretty poor with the ball at times.

These.

It feels a little bit at the moment like we've thrown (some of) the baby out with the bathwater doesn't it? We've definitely become a harder team play against, but since Mason and Bentaleb got injured (and I'm not saying we categorically have to have both every game but I still think in a cohesive hard working team they could) we've lost some footballing ability from the CM.

It's not like Mason doesn't bomb on either - that goal he scored at Sunderland is still one of the best Spurs goals I've seen in recent seasons.

 

[mpickard2087]

These.

It feels a little bit at the moment like we've thrown (some of) the baby out with the bathwater doesn't it? We've definitely become a harder team play against, but since Mason and Bentaleb got injured (and I'm not saying we categorically have to have both every game but I still think in a cohesive hard working team they could) we've lost some footballing ability from the CM.

It's not like Mason doesn't bomb on either - that goal he scored at Sunderland is still one of the best Spurs goals I've seen in recent seasons.

I don't know if I can comment on the season as a whole without going back and analysing it. But as I say though I think we are currently missing someone who can keep us ticking over when we are under pressure. So far this duo hasn't managed it in the few times they/we have been put under pressure (as I said, the Europa games are the best example), in fact they've really made no attempt to and disappeared out of the game entirely. Maybe starting Sunday they will prove me wrong, but its a concern looking ahead to tougher tests.

Personally I don't think Alli has actually played that well overall in the last 2/3 games, and for me Mason (if fit and up to speed) is ahead of him still in the pecking order.