Ratings vs Liverpool

[striebs]

This was Poch's fault because he didn't change it after the first goal or even the second .

Going a man light at the back was no good against Mane and Clyne .

With Rose we might have got away with it but we missed him and missed some leadership too .

Formation was wrong for this match and available personnel .

 

[yankspurs]

Lloris - 6
Walker - 2
Toby - 2
Dier - 0
Davies - 0
Wanyama - 0
Dembele - 6
Son - 0
Eriksen - 0
Dele - 2
Kane - 2

Winks - 6
Sissoko - 0
Janssen - 0

Poch - 0

 

[The Apprentice]

Poch got the set up wrong but there was no accounting for our complete inability to complete simple passes, to lose nearly every 50/50 and to struggle to keep the ball under close control for the whole 90 mins.

Wanyama, Dier, Davies, Alli, Son probably had their worst games for us. Kane was hopeless. Eriksen was bullied out of the game. Dembele was Dembele, looked impressive with his pirouetting but completely unable to play a first time pass or do anything with any actual pay off.

Walker was timid.

Just a real shithouse performance and application.

I'm a little concerned at Poch's approach in these games. He doesn't seem able to change a game tactically during play and has a real aversion to changing things before 70 mins.

Go get drunk and enjoy yourselves!

 

[night-watchman]

This was like Hitler in WWII trying to avoid the mistakes Napoeleon made in Russia by trying to do the exact opposite of his war strategy… only to get the same result (well, not really). Poch started with 3 at the back against Man City and he seems so scarred by that 1st half he has not really gone back to it since, even when the context of the game would have made it a far more productive option.

I was disappointed with his team selection and felt this game REALLY necessitated Winks in the midfield. Someone to get their foot on the ball, recycle possession and try and even out the possession stats. It is becoming a habit away to these dynamic, agile teams (Man City, Bournemouth, Liverpool…) that all playing a midfield two of Wanyama and Dembele/Dier means is that these attacking savvy teams can exploit the channels and leave our leave our fullbacks horribly exposed.

We went with a 4-2-3-1 to start and Liverpool had a feast - the Davies, Son, Dembele side getting completely overwhelmed. Their was a moment at around the 26 minute mark when the camera flashed to the bench and I was sure that was the moment Poch was going to rectify the mistake and make the obvious sub (Winks for Son, shift Eriksen out to the left and drop Wanyama 10 yards deeper) but the game ticked over until the 60th(?) minute before any real attempts to match Liverpool were made.

Son needs to take an awful lot of responsibility for the first 25 minute horror show as well. I rarely agree with the BT commentary but the cries for Son to drop 15 yards deeper were spot on. We have missed Lamela’s work rate and tenacity badly from an attacking and defensive standpoint.

For the attention Wimmer’s poor couple of games was getting, Dier has not covered himself in glory in this Vertonghen-less spell either. Dawdling on the ball and looking completely out of sync with the game defensively.

Alli, Kane and Eriksen, whilst starved of any sort of attacking opportunity were hardly helping the situation - Alli was particularly wasteful.


Lloris - pulled off some cracking saves but really needs to sort out his distribution

Walker - had the easier time of the two fullbacks only because the best player on the park was on the opposite flank. The moment around the 30 minute when he controlled the ball perfectly before seemingly tripping over his shoelaces and kicking the ball out of play was a particular highlight.

Davies - Bad day at the office.

Toby - just about the only starting player who can come out with any really credit today

Dier - What is the point of having Wimmer if we are not going to use him in this situation. Having natural left footer makes for a far more balanced central defence and Dier has hardly played his way into the team recently. Bad game.

Dembele - Really poor in not protecting our left side better (along with Son). In the second half Poch rectified this by switching Wanyama to help out the left but the damage was done. Bad game.

Wanyama - Bad in possession today but was not playing the right role for us either. Should have been sweeping up directly in front of the defence rather than alongside Dembele.

Eriksen - Absolutely no opportunity to impose himself on the game. Completely ineffective and not sure a lot of it was his fault.

All - shockingly wasteful in possession. frustrating game.

Kane - we need you back to your best Harry. Needs dropping for a game to get his ass into gear.

Poch - If he didn’t learn the lesson from the City game he almost certainly would have by now.

 

[stevenurse]

This was like Hitler in WWII trying to avoid the mistakes Napoeleon made in Russia by trying to do the exact opposite of his war strategy… only to get the same result. Poch started with 3 at the back against Man City and he seems so scarred by that 1st half he has not really gone back to it since, even when the context of the game would have made it a far more productive option.



I was disappointed with his team selection and felt this game REALLY necessitated Winks in the midfield. Someone to get their foot on the ball, recycle possession and try and even out the possession stats. It is becoming a habit away to these dynamic, agile teams (Man City, Bournemouth, Liverpool…) that all playing a midfield two of Wanyama and Dembele/Dier means is that these attacking savvy teams can exploit the channels and leave our leave our fullbacks horribly exposed.



We went with a 4-2-3-1 to start and Liverpool had a feast - the Davies, Son, Dembele side getting completely overwhelmed. Their was a moment at around the 26 minute mark when the camera flashed to the bench and I was sure that was the moment Poch was going to rectify the mistake and make the obvious sub (Winks for Son, shift Eriksen out to the left and drop Wanyama 10 yards deeper) but the game ticked over until the 60th(?) minute before any real attempts to match Liverpool were made.



Son needs to take an awful lot of responsibility for the first 25 minute horror show as well. I rarely agree with the BT commentary but the cries for Son to drop 15 yards deeper were spot on. We have missed Lamela’s work rate and tenacity badly from an attacking and defensive standpoint.



For the attention Wimmer’s poor couple of games was getting, Dier has not covered himself in glory in this Vertonghen-less spell either. Dawdling on the ball and looking completely out of sync with the game defensively.



Alli, Kane and Eriksen, whilst starved of any sort of attacking opportunity were hardly helping the situation - Alli was particularly wasteful.





Lloris - pulled off some cracking saves but really needs to sort out his distribution



Walker - had the easier time of the two fullbacks only because the best player on the park was on the opposite flank. The moment around the 30 minute when he controlled the ball perfectly before seemingly tripping over his shoelaces and kicking the ball out of play was a particular highlight.



Davies - Bad day at the office.



Toby - just about the only starting player who can come out with any really credit today



Dier - What is the point of having Wimmer if we are not going to use him in this situation. Having natural left footer makes for a far more balanced central defence and Dier has hardly played his way into the team recently. Bad game.



Dembele - Really poor in not protecting our left side better (along with Son). In the second half Poch rectified this by switching Wanyama to help out the left but the damage was done. Bad game.



Wanyama - Bad in possession today but was not playing the right role for us either. Should have been sweeping up directly in front of the defence rather than alongside Dembele.



Eriksen - Absolutely no opportunity to impose himself on the game. Completely ineffective and not sure a lot of it was his fault.



All - shockingly wasteful in possession. frustrating game.



Kane - we need you back to your best Harry. Needs dropping for a game to get his ass into gear.



Poch - If he didn’t learn the lesson from the City game he almost certainly would have by now.

I'm going to like this post 1. Because of the length and 2. Because you rarely get a timid away 2-0 defeat equated to the tactics of hitler

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

It's in games like this you really see the quality of defenders.

Sadly we had only one with quality.

Ben Davies can be a great defender for a team that sits deep, he is not fast enough for a high line nor good enough going forward. 1

Dier, don't take touches against good pressing strikers... Get rid of the ball quicker. 1

Game was over at 2-0.

Every one else below par.

 

[mano-obe]

Lloris - 7 - Made some decent saves

Toby - 7- Tried his best
Kyle - 6 - Defended ok, didn't do much going forwards
Dier - 3 - Poor, spent too long on the ball, caught out of position, cost us a goal
Davies - 3 - Extremely poor first half, out-paced, rabbit caught in headlights, didn't get any cover to be fair. Decent second half or I'd give him a 2

Dembele - 7 - Strong as an ox, tried to retain possession when he had 3 men around him, went on some decent runs, no real end product though
Wanyama - 4 - Worked hard, too many back passes to put our defence under pressure. Every single ball to Walker was exactly sideways or behind him, never invited Kyle to run forwards by placing it in front of him. Frustrating

Eriksen - 3 - Shied away from tackling and the nitty gritty, couldn't get a foot on the ball at all.
Son - 3 - Tried to run at them, never looked like he was in control of the ball. Cost us a goal by not squaring it to Kane
Alli - 6 - Tried to run at them too, worked hard, got closed down quickly by the opposition

Kane - 3 - Looked tired, uninterested, a few decent flick on's and a silly booking, not a good day at the office

Winks - 5 - Tried to pass, never wows me as much as this board, but not a bad performance
Sissoko - 3 - Was expecting some trademark runs where he never has control of the ball and it bounces off his shins etc, didn't happen
Jannsen - 3 - Didn't foul anyone or fall over like he usually does, pretty anonymous

 

[barry]

After a shit show like today this always cheers me up

 

[BringBack_leGin]

That wasn't a bad day at the office, that was showing up at the wrong office naked on a cold day.

Sometimes tactics need to be flexible, today was one of those times. High line against Mane is just stupid.

Also, fed up of castrating Eriksen to accommodate Son. Putting Eriksen on the right is just shoddy. Left of central, not the right. By putting him there you're giving our most creative player 75% less pitch to aim at. Also, with Rose out you need someone in front of Davies who will protect him, Son doesn't do this and after the umpteenth time Mane got behind him in the first 5 minutes Pochettino should've adjusted.

That said, you can't blame the manager for some of the individual horrow shows out there:

Lloris couldn't do to much about either goal from where I was, and saved a couple of other certain goals, but some of his decision making bordered on lunacy.

Walker had one of his worst games of the season, full of stupid fouls, sloppy losses of possession and wasted chances to put a good ball in.

Alderweireld I actually think was the worse of the two centre backs. One great block aside, he was pulled all over the place by their frontline. Definitely dipped lately.

Dier had a nightmare on the second goal but I felt was harshly criticised by many of those around me. Won a lot in the air and his pace saved us on more than on occasion.

Davies I am no convinced is wrong for us as a full back, the only use I see for him is as a left centre back in the 343. Looks like he's treading was when balls go round his back and can't get into crossing positions as he just doesn't have that instinct to overlap.

Wanyama had his worst game for us, blunderous on the ball, immobile off it.

Dembele had a few nice runs with the all but off it he just didn't keep up with Liverpool. Not sure where the praise for him is coming from.

Eriksen huffed and puffed but never affected proceedings and didn't cause Milner, an out of position midfielder at left back, any issues.

Alli probed and tried to make something happen but nothing came off for him.

Son was erratic, wasteful and confusing and confused. All to be expected.

Kane flirted in and out but didn't really cause any danger. In his defence though, it must be frustrating knowing that you're up against a 5'10 crocked past it midfielder called Lucas Leiva and not be given one cross to attack in 90 minutes.

Winks added a bit of zip but I can't say I understand him being the first man I'm in a game we are losing 2-0.

Sissoko and Janssen between them had as much effect as a 2 inch cock on a Scouse council estate mum of 6.

Pochettino got it wrong today. He didn't learn from the reverse fixture and we were punished. It's okay to put in an early cross on occasion.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

This cracked me up, it was in poor taste but this post was so clever and just the pun of all puns

I agree. And box could mean penalty area, coffin or vagina. Or all three. Genius!

 

[StevePil]

Lloris is only player who can come out with anything above a 5 today

Worst performance of season from the team

They were all shit today and I hope poch is right that this is a wake up call we needed

We need that before our season is over again

 

[Spurger King]

Had a bit of time to reflect on that shocking performance.

First let's start with the good.

Dembele had some moments of brilliance.

Well that was short and sweet.

As for the bad...

Dier really didn't look comfortable in defence. Obviously that's the position he's most used to, but I think he's significantly better as a DM. Him and Davies were awful today, and Liverpool took full advantage. Toby tried his best, but our back four were pulled all over the place.

It didn't help that Wanyama seemed to forget which team he was playing for. It's all well and good when he's breaking up play, but the guy can't pass. Most of the times where we were turned over were due to him. He's been a rock in a lot of games but personally I'd prefer Dier in the middle more often.

Alli put a shift in, but as with most of the team it seemed that absolutely nothing went right. It was if the players had become used to the opposition sitting back, and the reduced time on the ball made them lose their heads. Second to every loose ball, most passes being misplaced, poor positions, lack of movement. It was amateurish from the whole team.

Son and Eriksen encapsulated all that was terrible about today. Lousy stuff from them. Son at least got himself into a position to score, but for some reason he decided to gently pass it back to the keeper. That really could have turned the game.

Harry looked increasingly frustrated. Can't be too critical of him as he was getting no service.

Pochettino clearly takes a lot of blame too. The tactics were way off, as was the personnel. Hindsight is wonderful, but Wimmer should have been playing as part of a back 5. Despite it being blindingly obvious that we were all over the place, Pochettino left his changes very late, and when they did happen they never looked like making a difference.

Liverpool were energetic, and Mane was a nightmare, but I didn't think they were anything special. In all honesty they should feel embarrassed to only score twice when we played so terribly.

 

[whitesocks]

Dier - 3 woeful. Slow in possession, killed the game dead by his pathetic play to lose the ball in the lead up to their second. Looks a shadow of his former self..

3 is about right.
I don't think inverting the CBs was necessarily the worst mistake MP made - as Dier is 2 footed to an extent,
but surely you don't play a high line against someone so quick as Mane? Certainly not a high line with Davies the FB.
Add in the fact that Son was not helping defensively on the left and with Wanyama having the night off, no-one ever showing for the ball, along with MP refusing to fix his errors, it actually is quite a strong 3/10.

I guess after liverpool's recent results, they wanted it a lot more, and this result did not dent our title chances as they were finished weeks ago. Still in pole position for a CL spot, so I guess it isn't all bad as long as we keep focused.

 

[Mr Pink]

The tactic we needed was so obvious, pick a side that would frustrate and contain, sit deep and work hard, above all stay disciplined.

Picking the same side that played on the front foot at home against Middlesbrough was never going to achieve that.

Poch is doing ever so we'll but he needs to approach these games with more tactical awareness, plain and simple.

We had a little preview a few weeks ago when City pressed and attacked hard.
Yes that was a surprise at the time but this was the most obvious thing coming you could imagine.

What worries me a bit, although the big picture is looking great for the long term, is that our approach appeared casual, with no real plan to contain them, to the contrary we totally exposed our weak link to their biggest threat.

And naturally, in turn, our performance was casual, ultra casual.

There is still a mentality hurdle we need to overcome when we're playing away at the bigger Clubs, particularly when we're up against it.

As others have said Lloris and Dembele emerge with a semblance of credit.

Wanyama was really poor, probably his worst game for us but their pressing really did contribute to our poor passing and inability to keep possession and build something purposeful.

Poch got it wrong but he should of been instructing the team to sit deeper, therefore winning the ball deeper and countering through that press when they're out of position.

Just disappointed he didnt approach it this way when it was so bloody obvious, and it's not about three at the back ffs, we didn't have the personnel for it. It was about protecting Davies, our weakest link against their biggest threat and tactically doing what everyone else does, stay solid and pretty deep and frustrate them.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Everyone was poor today. Liverpool's game plan was simple - press hard, stop us playing out from the back, stop Dembele and Wanyama from having any time on the ball, cutting off the four attackers. We literally walked into it, smiling like idiots.

Easy to say they didn't "want it" but when the other team is pressing that hard, you need alternate options.

It wasn't just simple, it was entirely predictable. I expected them to play that way and I've got less sense than a bag of pony piss

 

[mpickard2087]

An omnishambles of a performance.

It would be easy to pick out the glaring errors and castigate those individuals, but the truth is that a large part of the reason said errors were being made was due to failings in all aspects of performance and being under severe, at times constant, pressure. Things fall apart.

Everything we did today was bad. Our use of the ball, our pressing was non existent, our tactics/shape, the work rate and desire. A perfect shitstorm.

This was yet another painful watch as we attempted to play our game against a high pressing outfit, and once again we had little clue and we're all at sea. All the little foibles were once again in abundance... Dodgy keeper with the ball at his feet, players dawdling and wanting too much time and too many touches on the ball, passes to players under severe pressure with no out ball, crap movement and players not wanting the ball. All in evidence. Must get better...

For all that was bad on the ball, what we did off it was much, much worse for me. Pressing... Well non-existent really. And all over the pitch we were outworked and to a man they had much more desire. Take the efforts of their front line compared to the bumbling, dawdling, lazy, halfhearted work of Kane as a starting point... And then it was like that all over the field. When you are getting out-footballed it's tough enough, when you can't match them for effort either you've got no chance.

Things don't get any better when you move on to what we did from a tactical/organisation point of view. I fully expected this to be one of the hardest games of the season, and that we needed to match up in the centre of the park with a hardworking industrious 4-3-3. I could even see the logic of starting Forrest Gump Sissoko instead of one of the attackers. Instead we got the predictable lineup, and I think it was bonkers in a game like this to have too many players who have a tendency to live on the periphery of games with little contribution.

In game things were just a mess. This isn't the first time we've struggled to adapt to not being on the front foot and being pinned back. On these occasions we neither press or get back in behind the ball as two banks of four and things end up a mess. Today we had three standing around up top with the rest getting the run around trying to plug gaps. Someone like Davies might have been poor individually, but what chance does he have when he is constantly getting a double-teaming down his flank from Mane and Clyne. Just chaotic.

As for what we were trying to do to get back into the game, I really have no fucking clue. It carried on as one big shapeless mess.

I will stop there as I could rant and rant all night. To sum up it was a total clusterfuck.



Lloris - Had a spell first half where he was under constant bombardment and kept the score down. For the good he did though some of his kicking is the source of our poor play out from the back.

Walker - Dragged all over the place and often out of position. Just about survived. Nearly gifted yet another goal with his trademarked 'half volley hit with undercut' back pass...

Alderweireld - Said it every week since his comeback, will say it again... Doesn't look fit to me and I think he's still got problems. Tentative, and getting caught out by balls hoisted over the top and having to turn. Just lots of little things he's doing that aren't the imperious centre back we know and miss. Was dragged all over the place today and often thought he was at fault for charging out of defence and not taking man or ball.

Dier - Obviously made a catastrophic error for the second goal and that wasn't his only blemish, but at times I thought he mopped up better than any of our other defenders, particularly on the turn. Use of the ball wasn't great, but often what options were there?

Davies - Another game where he looks nervous and lacking confidence. I have sympathy for him in that he was being ganged up on down that flank, but when called upon to defend he was more often than not found wanting. Not sure what he is doing for the opening goal, step and play offside surely?

Wanyama - Worst game for us. Just all over the place, and not in a good way.

Dembele - A few good moments, but that's all it was. Part of a midfield utterly dominated, and watch him when our centre backs have the ball desperately looking for a pass - for someone so capable of ball retention he is often hiding.

Eriksen - Just got blown away in the chaos.

Alli - At least tried to run about a bit. That was about it though as he took his part in our insipid attack.

Son - No idea why he started. Did little with and without the ball. The one chance we did create he delighted in sending up in flames and keeping his title as the barbecue king...

Kane - I've been tempted to harshly comment on him for a while now, today my patience has snapped. Some of you might think this is shitting the bed after one bad game/loss, but quite simply even if he is scoring at a rate comparable to previous seasons I think his performances are not as good as last season (and they weren't as good as 14/15 season). I think he needs a humongous kick up the backside and to go back to what he did when he first came in the team - give everything he had leading the line and run through brick walls for the team. Compare the efforts of he (and the rest of the attack tbf) with Liverpool's in terms of doing all the dirty work and chasing things down. Had no sympathy in the commentators going 'he's had no service', sometimes you have to run your heart out, give 110% and maybe force a mistake and something will happen. Far too many of these performances this season.

Subs:

Winks - At least looked competent and composed with the ball at his feet, but that was it.

Sissoko - Very little time, very little of note.

Janssen - Ditto.

 

[millsey]

Not for me.

This was worse.

Losing 5-1 to a relegated team when we had to draw to finish 2nd and beat Arsenal?? Nowhere near

 

[dannythomas]

This was Poch's fault because he didn't change it after the first goal or even the second .

Going a man light at the back was no good against Mane and Clyne .

With Rose we might have got away with it but we missed him and missed some leadership too .

Formation was wrong for this match and available personnel .

To be honest if we had gone with 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 or even 4-3-3 I don't think it would have made any difference. To challenge at the highest level especially when you have cup competitions ongoing you really need high quality back up in every position. Certainly a high quality bench to give us options. If we take our best starting line up as say 3-5-2. Lloris, Dier, Toby, Verts, Walker, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Rose, Ali, Kane , how many back up players do we have of the quality necessary to maintain a challenge on all fronts ? I would say Winks, Lamela ( assuming we ever see him again ), Son. Trippier is an ok option at wing back. That's a squad of 15 players which is just not enough. We can't rotate it effectively and we can't cover for injuries to key players like Rose , Vertonghen, Eriksen, Kane. Are we surprised when we play against quality players and have to call on players in the starting line up and from the bench who are just not good enough ?

 

[The Apprentice]

I never understand why we decide to play out from the back continuously when Hugo, Walker, Dier, Wanyama, Dembele and Davies are all fairly limited on the ball.

Klopp knew it.

 

[matthew.absurdum]

It is interesting that Kane keeps saying that his idol is Tom Brady, and we need to learn from Patriots's comeback. Well, action speaks louder than words