Ratings vs Newcastle

[Kendall]

I genuinely don't know what that means.

"Honest performance". That's what Pardew said last night, about Newcastle not giving one.

I don't have a fucking clue what he meant either.

 

[onthetwo]

Switch Paulinho for Bentaleb and I'm excited with you.

thats fair, though i do like how Paulinho arrives late in the box for the odd tap-in.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I'm still a bit disappointed with Capoue, and I still maintain that the whole 'holding midfielder' thing has been blown well out of proportion. I don't want us playing with a screen in front of the defence who never ventures out of his own half, I think it becomes counter productive in games especially if you go a goal down, and would much prefer to play that role with a Sandro type rather than EC. Until Sandro is back, Capoue will do away from home.

I don't understand the logic of this paragraph. Do you think Sandro will give you more on the ball than Capoue ? Because I think Sandro will give you more off it but much less on it.

I think Capoue, despite not having a blinder last night, was pivotal to the performance of Bentaleb, who wasn't quite so bogged down with the defensive side of the game (definitely not his strength) and was able to play more in their half, and also Paulinho could bomb into the box knowing their was extra cover.

Capoue saw as much ball, made as many passes as Bentaleb last night, which also helped our football and Bentaleb's. Helped us retain the ball with a bit more cohesion than we have seen in any game away from home.

Not perfect from Capoue (or Bentaleb, Paulinho IMO) last night but that was Capoue first start in his best position for what 3 months ?

Looking back, very little came directly through the middle, I can't remember our CB's getting exposed that way. Threats seemed to come mostly from balls from the flanks where the chuckle brothers were.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Walker did that thing again last night. He's closing down a man, then a runner runs past the man on the ball and like a greyhound attracted to the mechanical hare Walkler just leaves the man on the ball and sprints off with the man who hasn't got the ball, despite no-one else staying with the man on the ball.

It's just nutty.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

"Honest performance". That's what Pardew said last night, about Newcastle not giving one.

I don't have a fucking clue what he meant either.

Understandable.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

Walker did that thing again last night. He's closing down a man, then a runner runs past the man on the ball and like a greyhound attracted to the mechanical hare Walkler just leaves the man on the ball and sprints off with the man who hasn't got the ball, despite no-one else staying with the man on the ball.

It's just nutty.

Fruit cake.

 

[Legend10]

Walker did that thing again last night. He's closing down a man, then a runner runs past the man on the ball and like a greyhound attracted to the mechanical hare Walkler just leaves the man on the ball and sprints off with the man who hasn't got the ball, despite no-one else staying with the man on the ball.

It's just nutty.

You don't think that sometimes that's exactly the right thing to do then or indeed as young players in certain situations that's exactly what they are taught to do?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I don't understand the logic of this paragraph. Do you think Sandro will give you more on the ball than Capoue ? Because I think Sandro will give you more off it but much less on it.

I think Capoue, despite not having a blinder last night, was pivotal to the performance of Bentaleb, who wasn't quite so bogged down with the defensive side of the game (definitely not his strength) and was able to play more in their half, and also Paulinho could bomb into the box knowing their was extra cover.

Capoue saw as much ball, made as many passes as Bentaleb last night, which also helped our football and Bentaleb's. Helped us retain the ball with a bit more cohesion than we have seen in any game away from home.

Not perfect from Capoue (or Bentaleb, Paulinho IMO) last night but that was Capoue first start in his best position for what 3 months ?

Looking back, very little came directly through the middle, I can't remember our CB's getting exposed that way. Threats seemed to come mostly from balls from the flanks where the chuckle brothers were.

I think he'll give you the same, plus as I said he gets up and down the pitch better and doesn't just 'sit'. I really don't think Capoue is better on the ball than Sandro.

 

[Mr Pink]

Newcastle obviously had their problems but that was our best performance of the season. They certainly had a few good chances themselves and it could of been a lot tougher had they taken one of them. I thought Cisse's big chance in the first half was their best, and that came from a free kick. Lloris obviously made a few great saves but I don't think we were ever that 'open' looking with Capoue sitting in front of the back four. Even the Debuchy header came from a cross as did Cisse's second chance in the second half.

We had a lovely balance last night, one that gave us control, protection and real attacking intent. Bentaleb was very good, he really was. Capoue freeing him up a bit makes him even more effective, playing that bit further up the pitch where he can knit our play from midfield to attack as opposed to ticking over possession in our own half or around the half way line for long periods aware that he has a big defensive responsibility.

For me, playing Capoue does help us achieve a much healthier balance. The pressing and work rate was good and the only disappointing phase of the game was after we went 2-0 up. But you can't have it your own way all the time and away from home you will have to defend little spells at some point, although our work rate and pressing had dipped and we were inviting them on to us.

I really hope Sherwood was encouraged by this, how could he not be, and we'll be seeing this set up and approach more often than not particularly in the games that look tough or where the opposition are just as good if not better than us. I have no problem with us setting up to out fire opponents when the onus is more an us and the opposition are inferior. I still maintain flexibility in approach is key as circumstances and demands vary. If Sherwood continues to be flexible and apply what he's learning he could do very well. Still early day buts 23 points from 30 is very good indeed.

Also, if we could somehow keep Kaboul and Adebayor both fit for the remainder of the season I think we'll have a fantastic chance of fighting for fourth right until the very end, possibly even higher.

Lloris 8 some outstanding saves at critical points in the game

Walker 6.5 assured performance

Kaboul 7 a joy to have back, strong and commanding performance

Vertonghen 7 again, strong and commanding performance

Naughton 6.5 one real dodgy pass aside I thought he was decent

Capoue 6.5 reliable, patrolled his space competently for the most part - adds greatly to our 'balance'

Bentaleb 8.5 MOTM plays with the maturity of a 30 plus year old, freed up and looked very good for it - knitted everything together, worked hard and some great play to set up the all important first goal in a difficult arena to win at. Cute back heel for Chadli's goal, all round a very good performance from the youngster.

Paulinho 6.5 does tend to drift onto the periphery a bit, would like to see a bit more determination to keep involved more consistently but he's a real goal threat, no doubt about it, and the flick to Adebayor and then to gobble up the rebound was great interplay and alertness. I think we'll see more from him as the season wears on.

Dembele 6.5 one very strong bit of attacking play to set up Adebayor in the opening exchanges. I've often been torn as to whether I think he's better deeper or more advanced but lately I've argued the latter and I think it shows he' better there. His dribbling and strength can get him into the box and then he's forced to do something instead of being 40-50 yards from goal beating his man and looking up and delaying and the play slowing down again.

Lennon 6 good effort that hit the post, a good run in the box that nearly got on the end of a low Walker cross. Semi decent night for Lennon I thought. Certainly not appalling like some would have you believe.

Adebayor 8 two goals, worked hard for the team even if he did look a little spent at times. All in all another bloody good effort and he just can't stop scoring.

 

[WiganSpur]

Hope Tim persists with a DM. It really will bring the best out of our other midfielders.

Paulinho could be a 10-15 goal a season man with some security behind him.

 

[Nocando]

pink man has it spot on. well done.

 

[HoltbiusMac]

Thought Lloris was MOTM blinding performance which did more to getting the result to us than any other inidibudal performance.

But bloody hell what a player Bentaleb looks like. I'd said in other threads he'd better better one further forward in a 3 and very much seemed to be the case. It's really hard to believe he's 19. You do wonder if AVB doesn't look at him with regret as he seems like he would have really boosted the ideas that AVB had. All credit to Sherwood for bringing him through.

 

[Legend10]

Best performance of the season so far, let's hope we can keep it going!

 

[ShelfSide18]

I watched the Football First extended highlights, and from that evidence it was a quantum leap forward last night.

Ok any game when your keeper is called into that sort of service isn't perfect by any means, but the intensity in which we pressed the ball, and some of the football we played (primarily through Adebayor) was very encouraging, some lovely combination play, midfield runners breaking forward knowing they have the protection behind them in Capoue.

It was also noticeable that Bentaleb, when played in his natural role where he can get a bit higher up the pitch, protected by a holding CM, he looked excellent. This was the role he played in the U21s when I saw him, amazing how players look more comfortable in a system and set-up that suits them isn't it.

If we use that sort of template, play with that intensity, then I'll be a happy chappy.

 

[CheeseGromit]

If anyone ever wants to fall out of love with football quickly, head on over to the Match Thread once the teams have been announced. In there, you will find the biggest collection of oxygen thieves and embarrassing ****s outside of a gynecology clinic. Absolute disgrace and embarrassment to their own mothers, most of whom they probably sleep with.

Yesterday was encouraging, but as I have seemingly so far refused to get either carried away with Sherwood, or go the other way and shave my own cock with a cheesegrater I would say I am pleased, rather than ecstatic, with our performance yesterday, and there were still elements that need a lot of work. I read someone credit the clean sheet to the inclusion of Capoue but to be honest that's horse, Lloris was the reason, pure and simple. He had a genuine worldie (kicking aside...), far better than the game that Krul had against us previously, and his saves were all out of the top drawer.

I'm still a bit disappointed with Capoue, and I still maintain that the whole 'holding midfielder' thing has been blown well out of proportion. I don't want us playing with a screen in front of the defence who never ventures out of his own half, I think it becomes counter productive in games especially if you go a goal down, and would much prefer to play that role with a Sandro type rather than EC. Until Sandro is back, Capoue will do away from home.

Have to say, and again I've tried to be realistic about the kid so far, that Bentaleb was absolutely brilliant last night and a clear man of the match in my eyes. You could point to the support of having Capoue, but we still conceded a lot of territory and dangerous situations through the middle (although I attribute a lot of this to Paulinho and his shoddy work rate). Although this was pitched as a 433 to me it was still more of a 4231 variant, as I don't honestly believe you are going to get a 433 with the Gus Poyet reincarnate. He arrives late in the box, has an eye for a goal and is what you would call a 'presence' around the box, but fuck my sainted trousers is Paulinho a lazy ****.

I am a big fan of Dembele in the middle, and I don't particularly like him out on the right, it's fine when we have the ball, and we are probing, but it's quite detrimental to the team dynamic when we break quickly, as we look for him as an outlet (like we would with Lennon) and he doesn't have the right skillset. I actually wanted the previous regime to utilise him more in that role due to extra possession and more methodical approach that we took, but maybe if we start seeing that much ball with Sherwood he could evolve into it as well, as the tempo would hopefully be higher which would be important.

Adebayor is on form, and he's in luck too, which go hand in hand. Good to see.

Hopefully Townsend will replace Lennon when he is fit (he tweeted last night saying he was slowly getting back to fitness), and it was a smashing goal from Chadli. Overall I think Sherwood wanted us to go up there and fight, which probably wasn't a bad shout considering the players that the Barcodes have lost and had injured, that's what I would attribute the exclusion of Eriksen to. Hopefully he's be back in for Norwich.

Lloris - 8

Walker - 7 We wont get better than him for less than £30m so we probably need to accept his faults, hope he continues to learn and appreciate his attitude for what it is.
Kaboul - 7 Welcome back big man.
Vertonghen - 7 Decent, looked comfortable next to Kaboul, they seemed to trust each other, hope it continues.
Naughton - 6.9

Capoue - 6.5
Paulinho - 7
Bentaleb -9

Dembele - 6
Lennon - 5
Adebayor - 8

Didn't want to flag a disagree because there are things I do agree with. Most of all is that Newcash are not a good side at the mo and general summation has valid points. However;

I think you misunderstand Capoue how he plays and the freedom it provided Bentaleb. He plays further forward than just a DM you describe, he helped close space and stopped Newcash using it ( no not all the time but there are others in the team). It is not just what you do on the ball that contributes to the team

I can't agree Capoue achieved less than Naughton who was pretty solid apart from one significant lapse

Bentaleb played last night in the way Holtby did but better recycling ball more quickly. One of our failings is that we haven't given the player with the ball enough support

The middle of the park may just be too crowded for Dembele so playing a little wider will also release him

 

[walton]

Lloris is a great keeper at the moment, playing well and keeping us in the matches.. Great saves today, only thing that lets him down is his kicking

This. What's with his inability to keep the ball on the pitch...! Unconfirmed rumours that Gomes has been giving after-class kicking training...

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Didn't want to flag a disagree because there are things I do agree with. Most of all is that Newcash are not a good side at the mo and general summation has valid points. However;

I think you misunderstand Capoue how he plays and the freedom it provided Bentaleb. He plays further forward than just a DM you describe, he helped close space and stopped Newcash using it ( no not all the time but there are others in the team). It is not just what you do on the ball that contributes to the team

I can't agree Capoue achieved less than Naughton who was pretty solid apart from one significant lapse

Bentaleb played last night in the way Holtby did but better recycling ball more quickly. One of our failings is that we haven't given the player with the ball enough support

The middle of the park may just be too crowded for Dembele so playing a little wider will also release him

If you look at the average positions for last night, Capoue is barely ahead of our centre backs, and in his own half, I have said I prefer not to play with a player that is so limited, and would prefer a Sandro. And I don't mark Capoue higher on ratings because his position allows Bentaleb to play further forward, if I was doing that I would credit Sherwood for utilising the role. All I said is I don't think Capoue the player was as impressive as some claim he was last night, he had a very rusty 15-20 mins, and I've seen him do similar at Arsenal before he got injured, and then at Old Trafford as well, I think he lacks a bit of drive, and I ideally want Sandro back in that role asap, but caveated by saying Capoue will do away from home until Sandro is back.

As far as the ratings go, Naughton was part of the back 4 that kept a clean sheet, which is his job, but he dropped one almighty clanger which I marked him lower for. I've changed it now so that you don't have to worry he was scored higher than Capoue.

And I think your comparison with Holtby is an insult to Bentaleb, that was a better performance last night than anything Holtby has produced as a 'performance' since he has been with us.

I agree with the notion of releasing Dembele, but again as I said it doesn't work as well as we would hope when we're doing it as a counter attacking side.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think he'll give you the same, plus as I said he gets up and down the pitch better and doesn't just 'sit'. I really don't think Capoue is better on the ball than Sandro.

I think this is very wrong, but to be fair to you I've seen Capoue play about 50 times and you have probably seen him live what, 3 or 4 ?

All I would say is that if he gets a run of games, and we continue to play like we did last night, ie not the sit back, stand off crap we've played before, then see whether you think the same.

In his last league season for example, he scored 7 goals. That is more than our entire midfield last year I believe. That's not indicative of a player who can just sit.

I like Sandro, one of the best players without the ball I've seen in a spurs shirt, but on the ball he's pretty ordinary.

 

[CheeseGromit]

And I think your comparison with Holtby is an insult to Bentaleb, that was a better performance last night than anything Holtby has produced as a 'performance' since he has been with us
.

I see the Capoue thing differently so don't agree with your rational but accept opinions differ so we each believe in our individual points

You do however misunderstand my point about Bentelab and Holtby. I was not comparing the players performance but illustrating that both players recycle the ball quicker than other Spurs players. I agree Bentaleb has achieved this much better than Holtby

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I think this is very wrong, but to be fair to you I've seen Capoue play about 50 times and you have probably seen him live what, 3 or 4 ?

All I would say is that if he gets a run of games, and we continue to play like we did last night, ie not the sit back, stand off crap we've played before, then see whether you think the same.

In his last league season for example, he scored 7 goals. That is more than our entire midfield last year I believe. That's not indicative of a player who can just sit.

I like Sandro, one of the best players without the ball I've seen in a spurs shirt, but on the ball he's pretty ordinary.

I have not seen Capoue play live 50 times, but I did take more notice of him 3 years or so ago when you were mentioning him, so I would say 15 or so times. I was excited when we signed him, but bare no relevance to what he has done in the waste of space that is the French League. That's the same French League where Joey Barton looked like a good player for OM. I think you thoroughly over rate him when it comes to his work with the ball and to me he is ponderous and lethargic, something which even if Sandro doesn't have his rate of passing, he doesn't lose anything because he moves at faster than a cumbersome pace.