Ratings vs Stoke City

[EnfieldYiddo]

All this Dempsey debate is academic anyway, it's clear to anyone that he doesn't offer enough in a match - Regardless of his occasional goal/assist contribution. For every game he contributes something valuable, he will have another two where he is turgid.

Good squad player but we need someone way more dynamic in the front 3 or 4 positions...

It's not so much as picking on him, AVB has countless players in the squad who are technically inept, shy away from the ball, lack any decision making nous... The list goes on. Can't wait for a clear-out in Summer.

 

[JimmyG2]

The Pullis remark was low (lower than a snakes belly), I apologise.

I would argue he doesn't score enough to justify being the hindrance he is the rest of the time.

Our defending is a problem and needs improving, but Part of defending starts from the front and Dempsey is lethargic and lazy when it comes to pressing.

Let's not forget it was Dempsey who needlessly gave away the free kick that put our defence under pressure and resulted in an early goal.

Prejudice isn't always irrational.

It is by definition.
It's a pre-judgement without reference to the facts of a case.
It is therefor unreasonable. ie irrational.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It is by definition.
It's a pre-judgement without reference to the facts of a case.
It is therefor unreasonable. ie irrational.

I stand corrected.

In that case I am not prejudiced because I have seen the evidence.

 

[Mr Pink]

The Pullis remark was low (lower than a snakes belly), I apologise.

I would argue he doesn't score enough to justify being the hindrance he is the rest of the time.

Our defending is a problem and needs improving, but Part of defending starts from the front and Dempsey is lethargic and lazy when it comes to pressing.

Let's not forget it was Dempsey who needlessly gave away the free kick that put our defence under pressure and resulted in an early goal.

Prejudice isn't always irrational.

Fair enough BC. Anyway I agree with your point in principal/general. I just thought he was better yesterday than he normally is, has been.

 

[OmarsComing]

7's all round, Tom Huddlestone man of the match. Clint's goal and assist do not fool me, he is still technically appalling.

This whole Tom Huddlestone bashing is ridiculous, he put in two poor set pieces. He was never dispossessed, completed every pass and continually kept switching the play well, especially second half (cue the 'he can only play against 10 men argument'). He also played several good incisive through balls. Verts should have done better on two occasions whilst he also put Dempsey in twice but he hesitated and did nothing. Dempsey actually did the same on the goal but had so much time even he managed to get the ball across to Ade.

I also liked Tom's pressing high up the pitch, there was one instance where we defended a corner/free kick and he pressured the keeper before any of our players - not a sight I am used to! He did that a couple of times.

I suggest people watch the game back in it's entirety and just focus on Huddlestone, you might realise a thing or two.

Hi Mrs Huddlestone,

When did they let you out of The Priory?

Cordially,

Omar

 

[double0]

Again. not often.

Have you weighed up what we are actually losing by having such a limited/lazy player in the side ? You only seem to be evaluating one facet of many.

I look at our squad, players used this season and think were the hell can we get goals from, from Bale Defoe Dempsey Sigurdsson Adebayor Vertonghen.

From that list two are limited footballers Defoe and Dempsey therefore when weighing up the compromise I don't think we can afford having both players starting at the same time However Dempsey does seem to score important goals, both goals against ManU, Basel, Stoke.

I think as a club with our finanical conditions were still at that level of compromising with players the creme de le creme players cost money which basically is the bottom line.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I look at our squad, players used this season and think were the hell can we get goals from, from Bale Defoe Dempsey Sigurdsson Adebayor Vertonghen.

From that list two are limited footballers Defoe and Dempsey therefore when weighing up the compromise I don't think we can afford having both players starting at the same time However Dempsey does seem to score important goals, both goals against ManU, Basel, Stoke.

I think as a club with our finanical conditions were still at that level of compromising with players the creme de le creme players cost money which basically is the bottom line.

Honestly, I think we can do better without spending a fortune. I think we have better options in our squad and development group.

 

[Legend10]

We seem to be doing remarkably well with a squad of apparently such limited players.

Quite how we are competing for 4th place for the 3rd time in 4 years with the other being a 5th is amazing really, with 3 of those years with a clueless manager and this one with one who keeps picking the wrong side apparently, all very weird!

Just how do you compete for 4th with 2 FB's who don't have a clue, a CB who doesn't have a clue, a CM player playing at an absolutely vital part of the season who's a lability, an insipid little winger who adds nothing, a lazy no ability forward come midfield player who needs to be carried otherwise known as a wanker, another wanker up front for the majority of he games, a manager who makes so many mistakes and for the love of god keeps picking the above players.

Every chance that we are going to get a record Prem points haul with the above idiots and wankers as well!

Oh and every chance that we will score our highest ever number of Premiership goals in a season as well!

Jesus, we're shit!

 

[ShelfSide18]

There's nothing bad about having a player in your squad that can pop up with a goal here and there like Dempsey, but the problem arises when you are relying on him to add to the creative and build up phases when he really adds very little - I'm not keen on the 'it doesn't matter if we don't create lots of quality chances with creative, exciting build up play because Dempo will bundle one in in the end' school of thought.

There are lots of good players who can add to that creative build up play that we lack and they don't all cost silly money, that's surely what we want isn't it? Players like Dempsey can be useful, but we can surely find players who can be beautiful, and effective too.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Again. not often.

Have you weighed up what we are actually losing by having such a limited/lazy player in the side ? You only seem to be evaluating one facet of many.

It's horses for courses at the moment though, I'm not sure how much we are losing with the Ho-Hummers waiting in the wings.

Sigurdsson or Dempsey? Dalwhinnie or Laphroaig?

Holtby? Not this season.

One of the kids? Meh.

If we had something being kept in the wings by AVB then fair enough, and I'd probably agree with you.

At least he's not Dirk Kuyt anyway.

 

[ShelfSide18]

The first point (in bold) is something I thought of mentioning this week. I'm reading his book at the moment too, and what has struck me more than anything is not the coaching methodology he believes in or the tactical aptitude mentioned, but AVB's ability to instil a mindset, belief and to motivate - and not just in that pre-match "get art there and run araaand" way, but on a daily, personal and collective basis. His approach is to educate and ingrain belief in his players individually and collectively. There are quotes from the players of the teams he left saying as much.

The things he said from the get go set the tone. And his utterances thereafter never look to put negativity into the players minds.

Contrast this with the utter bollocks that came from the mouth of the previous incumbent. Even yesterday he was at it again, denigrating a team of which he's bought half.

Which brings me to the point re Bale. I don't think it is not coincidental at all that Bale has become what he has. The potential was always there, we could all see it. AVB had a similar effect at Porto and Academica (obviously to a lesser degree). At Porto good players with potential became world beaters. It's not just that Bale has started scoring wonder goals regularly, his contribution to game play has tripled. Even if defensively he is still a bit lax at times, offensively he his contributing so much more it has become a more than fair trade off.

I think you were very generous to Hudd. I watch teams like Dortmund (ignoring more illustrious names), a team assembled pretty cheaply, and think this is how I want us to play. Hudd is the anathema of that. He was slow, refuses to sprint and offer himself enough and brought no incision or cutting edge to anything we did. I don't know if Carroll is the long term answer but he's definitely closer to that Dortmund ideal than Hudd could ever be.

Bringing Hudd in is like taking a mogadon when what you really need is a line of charlie.

The first point about AVBs management style, or the 'human factor' as they call it in the book is hugely important when building a team and a positive mentality within the group and it's that factor which I guess allows AVB to get his tactical methods across. I think this season he's devoted to instilling that mentality within the group which is quite resoundingly working at the moment, hopefully now the team will be ready to take on board the tactical concepts that he got his name for.

I'd like to think next season, with a pre season to work with a squad he knows well he will be a bit less conservative and we may see a side play more exciting, creative football. He needs some new players in and also to trust our youth players, I really hope we see this come next season because as much as I think he's done a great job with our weakest squad of players we've had for a few years I haven't really been on the edge of my seat yet this season all too much.

As for Hudd, you know my stance on the guy and I think we have in Tom Carroll the player that some fans think Hudd is, but actually isn't, but on Sunday I didn't have many complaints with him. True, in a game like that you are looking for that something extra from your 'passing' CMs and I think Tom Carroll would have done that and maybe found that incisive pass from deep that Hudd far too often fails to deliver.

 

[Legend10]

I thought some of you were just pure stato's?

VDV 2011/12

13 goals, 7 assists, 1 every 141 minutes

Dempsey 2012/13

12 goals, 9 assists, 1 every 135 minutes


Now there is no way tthat Dempsey is as good as VDV, that's obvious! However there is more than one way to be effective for a team and overall Dempsey has done his bit the season and i might add from positions of more responsibility than Rafa in the main had to play. To keep on and on banging on about his negative points is frankly just the usual drivel that seems to go on around here.

He's not a pretty player so why expect him to be one, has he been effective? Well the fact that he's our 3rd highest scorer and 2nd in assists and combind suggests strongly that he has been.

Can we upgrade Dempsey? Of course we can, but fuck me stop this shit about how crap he's been for us because its frankly bollocks. At a relatively cheap 6 million he's been a good buy and a major contributor in a season when both our front players have under performed.

I'm sure some people would have preferred to see us keep Giovani and play him instead, scary!

Oh and those stats hey, you can make them say whatever you want!

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I thought some of you were just pure stato's?

VDV 2011/12

13 goals, 7 assists, 1 every 141 minutes

Dempsey 2012/13

12 goals, 9 assists, 1 every 135 minutes


Now there is no way tthat Dempsey is as good as VDV, that's obvious! However there is more than one way to be effective for a team and overall Dempsey has done his bit the season and i might add from positions of more responsibility than Rafa in the main had to play. To keep on and on banging on about his negative points is frankly just the usual drivel that seems to go on around here.

He's not a pretty player so why expect him to be one, has he been effective? Well the fact that he's our 3rd highest scorer and 2nd in assists and combind suggests strongly that he has been.

Can we upgrade Dempsey? Of course we can, but fuck me stop this shit about how crap he's been for us because its frankly bollocks. At a relatively cheap 6 million he's been a good buy and a major contributor in a season when both our front players have under performed.

I'm sure some people would have preferred to see us keep Giovani and play him instead, scary!

Oh and those stats hey, you can make them say whatever you want!

Yep. All true.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yep. All true.

Really. You don't think that a fairly meaningless comparison Bear ? You do surprise me.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Really. You don't think that a fairly meaningless comparison Bear ? You do surprise me.

Yeah they are pretty meaningless, but because you are comparing a similar position with a player playing for the same team, at the same stadium, in the same kit, with a lot of similar variables, it's more meaningful than taking different parts of seasons, for different teams eg like you did with Sigurdsson and Dempsey.

To be honest, that wasn't what I really agreed with, it was more that Dempsey isn't as bad as you make out, you just have this thing (like I do with Naughton) where you will never accept anything Dempsey does as satisfactory. For example, your review of his game against Stoke is nothing short of a load of fanny.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I thought some of you were just pure stato's?

VDV 2011/12

13 goals, 7 assists, 1 every 141 minutes

Dempsey 2012/13

12 goals, 9 assists, 1 every 135 minutes


Now there is no way tthat Dempsey is as good as VDV, that's obvious! However there is more than one way to be effective for a team and overall Dempsey has done his bit the season and i might add from positions of more responsibility than Rafa in the main had to play. To keep on and on banging on about his negative points is frankly just the usual drivel that seems to go on around here.

He's not a pretty player so why expect him to be one, has he been effective? Well the fact that he's our 3rd highest scorer and 2nd in assists and combind suggests strongly that he has been.

Can we upgrade Dempsey? Of course we can, but fuck me stop this shit about how crap he's been for us because its frankly bollocks. At a relatively cheap 6 million he's been a good buy and a major contributor in a season when both our front players have under performed.

I'm sure some people would have preferred to see us keep Giovani and play him instead, scary!

Oh and those stats hey, you can make them say whatever you want!

Nice, see what you did there. Including games in the Europa and domestic cups against the mighty Carlisle, Coventry & Leeds which accounts for about 40% of his tally.

Here's the pure league comparison, which is much fairer because a) VDV was rarely used in domestic cup games and b) the league is a far more equitable comparison in terms of quality of opposition.

VDV - Goals 11 Assists 7

Dempsey - Goals 7 Assists 4

VDV - minutes per chance created 31

Dempsey - 62


VDV - Passes completed 1426

Dempsey - Passes 594


Of course you have qualified your stats above with "now there's no way that Dempsey is as good as VDV". Of course you did, you'd look an even bigger fool if you didn't, so why make the comparison at all ? If you are going to draw the comparison then what I'm telling you above is inevitable. I'm surprised it needed me to provide with the stats L, someone with your ability to read the game with just his eyes and wot not.

VDV scored more, assisted more, but, and here's the clincher, involved himself three times more in team play, this means we as a team retained the ball three times more, invariably in the final third, which means even when not scoring and assisting he was facilitating others to do so whilst at the same time not allowing the opposition to do so.


And for the record, VDV also made more tackles and won twice as much ball as Dempsey. So Dempsey doesn't even come out favourable on the graft or busy **** front.

Stupid, stupid comparison, even if qualified with a thousand "I'm not saying he's better" and you shouldn't need stats to tell you this.

Your eyes should have sufficed on this L10.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yeah they are pretty meaningless, but because you are comparing a similar position with a player playing for the same team, at the same stadium, in the same kit, with a lot of similar variables, it's more meaningful than taking different parts of seasons, for different teams eg like you did with Sigurdsson and Dempsey.

To be honest, that wasn't what I really agreed with, it was more that Dempsey isn't as bad as you make out, you just have this thing (like I do with Naughton) where you will never accept anything Dempsey does as satisfactory. For example, your review of his game against Stoke is nothing short of a load of fanny.

Gilfi Sigurdsson (700 minutes less than Dempsey)

Scores every 303 mins

Dempsey 275

Sigurdsson Assists 303 min

Dempsey Assists 481
--------------------------------------
Sigurdsson combined 606

Dempsey combined 756


This season's stats, in the same shirt, same team, same/similar positions (although Dempsey has also been used as a striker so has an advantage), same variables.

Dempsey is played as a forward, wide forward. Even in relative terms his return is nothing to get excited about and the rest of his game makes Naughton look like Maradona.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Gilfi Sigurdsson (700 minutes less than Dempsey)

Scores every 303 mins

Dempsey 275

Sigurdsson Assists 303 min

Dempsey Assists 481
--------------------------------------
Sigurdsson combined 606

Dempsey combined 756


This season's stats, in the same shirt, same team, same/similar positions (although Dempsey has also been used as a striker so has an advantage), same variables.

Dempsey is played as a forward, wide forward. Even in relative terms his return is nothing to get excited about and the rest of his game makes Naughton look like Madonna.

Fixed.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Gilfi Sigurdsson (700 minutes less than Dempsey)

Scores every 303 mins

Dempsey 275

Sigurdsson Assists 303 min

Dempsey Assists 481
--------------------------------------
Sigurdsson combined 606

Dempsey combined 756


This season's stats, in the same shirt, same team, same/similar positions (although Dempsey has also been used as a striker so has an advantage), same variables.

Dempsey is played as a forward, wide forward. Even in relative terms his return is nothing to get excited about and the rest of his game makes Naughton look like Maradona.

Well we know the assist stat is bollocks don't we, get a ricochet that lands at the feet of a striker that runs half the length of the field and slots one in the top bag after beating 3 men and you get a '1' in the column.

So as I said, Dempsey or Sigurdsson? Meh or Meh really, where goals are concerned.

 

[mpickard2087]

Statto, statto man.

I gotta be, (the undisputed correct user of) statto man.