Ratings vs Stoke City

[ShelfSide18]

Well we know the assist stat is bollocks don't we, get a ricochet that lands at the feet of a striker that runs half the length of the field and slots one in the top bag after beating 3 men and you get a '1' in the column.

So as I said, Dempsey or Sigurdsson? Meh or Meh really, where goals are concerned.

The stat assist isn't bollocks, true that you can make a 2 yard pass and then Adebayor embarks on a 50 yard run and finish (Holtby), or a 2 yard pass and Sandro smashes one in from 30 yards (Hudd at Fulham), but generally over the course of a season you find the cream rises to the top. But this is an example of how you use stats properly, say that one player is making a lot of assists who is not a lauded player, you then get videos of each assist and see if they are indeed 2 yard passes that he has been lucky enough to be assists or whether they have actually been good assists. You use stats to maybe reveal a player that may be undervalued then you use your eyes to see if this is the case.

I got an assist once when I took a kick off and my mate took a touch and smashed it in from halfway. To be fair it was a delightfully weighted kick off, I was good at those.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

The stat assist isn't bollocks, true that you can make a 2 yard pass and then Adebayor embarks on a 50 yard run and finish (Holtby), or a 2 yard pass and Sandro smashes one in from 30 yards (Hudd at Fulham), but generally over the course of a season you find the cream rises to the top. But this is an example of how you use stats properly, say that one player is making a lot of assists who is not a lauded player, you then get videos of each assist and see if they are indeed 2 yard passes that he has been lucky enough to be assists or whether they have actually been good assists. You use stats to maybe reveal a player that may be undervalued then you use your eyes to see if this is the case.

I got an assist once when I took a kick off and my mate took a touch and smashed it in from halfway. To be fair it was a delightfully weighted kick off, I was good at those.

Right, but then if you use it as a 'minute per assist' you aren't waiting for the cream to rise to the top. So we can file that one under 'Beecie's Story Time'.

I just get bored of arguing over two pretty bang average players in Dempsey in Sigurdsson who are as both as valuable as each other (although Gylfi wins the handsome stakes for sure...).

I'd have the same argument over my toilet brush and the nail clippers if I could be arsed.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Right, but then if you use it as a 'minute per assist' you aren't waiting for the cream to rise to the top. So we can file that one under 'Beecie's Story Time'.

I just get bored of arguing over two pretty bang average players in Dempsey in Sigurdsson who are as both as valuable as each other (although Gylfi wins the handsome stakes for sure...).

I'd have the same argument over my toilet brush and the nail clippers if I could be arsed.

You seemed to like it when Statto10 compared VDV and Dempsey's assists. You didn't point out to him the meaninglessness of it all.

Sigurdsson minutes per chance created 48
Dempsey 62

Sigurdsson mins per clear cut chance created 303
Dempsey 385

I have never said Sigurdsson is a world beater, I don't think that, but he's more use in terms of actual creative productivity than Dempsey. And I'm pretty sure if we compared their assists Sigurdsson would suffer by comparison.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Right, but then if you use it as a 'minute per assist' you aren't waiting for the cream to rise to the top. So we can file that one under 'Beecie's Story Time'.

I just get bored of arguing over two pretty bang average players in Dempsey in Sigurdsson who are as both as valuable as each other (although Gylfi wins the handsome stakes for sure...).

I'd have the same argument over my toilet brush and the nail clippers if I could be arsed.

And end up with shit on your clippers no doubt.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

And end up with shit on your clippers no doubt.

Or a scratched toilet pan.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

You seemed to like it when Statto10 compared VDV and Dempsey's assists. You didn't point out to him the meaninglessness of it all.

Sigurdsson minutes per chance created 48
Dempsey 62

Sigurdsson mins per clear cut chance created 303
Dempsey 385

I have never said Sigurdsson is a world beater, I don't think that, but he's more use in terms of actual creative productivity than Dempsey. And I'm pretty sure if we compared their assists Sigurdsson would suffer by comparison.

Can I say AGAIN, that I was more agreeing with the notion that Dempsey is not as bad as you make out, rather than the general 'those stats prove he's as good as VDV'.

You busy ****.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Right, but then if you use it as a 'minute per assist' you aren't waiting for the cream to rise to the top. So we can file that one under 'Beecie's Story Time'.

I just get bored of arguing over two pretty bang average players in Dempsey in Sigurdsson who are as both as valuable as each other (although Gylfi wins the handsome stakes for sure...).

I'd have the same argument over my toilet brush and the nail clippers if I could be arsed.

That is the point though Bear. When the visual evidence means it is hard to separate two players, stats can be of use. On the face of it there isn't much to choose between them, and none of us are eulogising over Sigurdsson, but the stats suggest that he's more valuable to a team in terms of actual productivity. As horrible as that is for some to grasp, occasionally they can be informative.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

That is the point though Bear. When the visual evidence means it is hard to separate two players, stats can be of use. On the face of it there isn't much to choose between them, and none of us are eulogising over Sigurdsson, but the stats suggest that he's more valuable to a team in terms of actual productivity. As horrible as that is for some to grasp, occasionally they can be informative.

When the stats are this close, I'll go with the general eyes consensus.

 

[Legend10]

Nice, see what you did there. Including games in the Europa and domestic cups against the mighty Carlisle, Coventry & Leeds which accounts for about 40% of his tally.

Here's the pure league comparison, which is much fairer because a) VDV was rarely used in domestic cup games and b) the league is a far more equitable comparison in terms of quality of opposition.

VDV - Goals 11 Assists 7

Dempsey - Goals 7 Assists 4

VDV - minutes per chance created 31

Dempsey - 62


VDV - Passes completed 1426

Dempsey - Passes 594


Of course you have qualified your stats above with "now there's no way that Dempsey is as good as VDV". Of course you did, you'd look an even bigger fool if you didn't, so why make the comparison at all ? If you are going to draw the comparison then what I'm telling you above is inevitable. I'm surprised it needed me to provide with the stats L, someone with your ability to read the game with just his eyes and wot not.

VDV scored more, assisted more, but, and here's the clincher, involved himself three times more in team play, this means we as a team retained the ball three times more, invariably in the final third, which means even when not scoring and assisting he was facilitating others to do so whilst at the same time not allowing the opposition to do so.


And for the record, VDV also made more tackles and won twice as much ball as Dempsey. So Dempsey doesn't even come out favourable on the graft or busy **** front.

Stupid, stupid comparison, even if qualified with a thousand "I'm not saying he's better" and you shouldn't need stats to tell you this.

Your eyes should have sufficed on this L10.

You obviously don't understand even the most basic point of the post!

Jesus wept, and frankly rightly so!

For your brain it's not a like for like comparison! I know thats going to be difficult because you can only logic football by numbers!

But I'll spell it out for you.

One you think of as a god and one you have described on a number of occasions as a useless wanker have overall in the most telling of contributions been similar, can you see that?

Of course you then spout nonsensical foolery about one having more touches, without even stopping to consider that one played mainly centrally and one has played mainly wider, now which one without even factoring in that we played through Rafa would you expect to have more touches or make more challenges, can you work it out? As for minutes played?

You make an interesting point though that Rafa had so so much more ball than Dempsey yet that doesn't seem to have translated propotionatly into more goals and assists!

So lets try again, Rafa is very clearly a better player than Dempsey, you need stats to tell you that where as like most people my eyes can tell me, yet numbers shw that they are both capable of making meaningful contributions demonstrating that although one maybe a god to describe the other as a useless wanker who is shit at this that and the other is nothing short of idiotic!

 

[Legend10]

Yeah they are pretty meaningless, but because you are comparing a similar position with a player playing for the same team, at the same stadium, in the same kit, with a lot of similar variables, it's more meaningful than taking different parts of seasons, for different teams eg like you did with Sigurdsson and Dempsey.

To be honest, that wasn't what I really agreed with, it was more that Dempsey isn't as bad as you make out, you just have this thing (like I do with Naughton) where you will never accept anything Dempsey does as satisfactory. For example, your review of his game against Stoke is nothing short of a load of fanny.

Bear I'm glad that you can see that the comparison is supposed to be meaningless and instead irony as this place is becoming increasingly depressing to read shit after more shit!

 

[BringBack_leGin]

And the L10 v BC battle continues. Two old foes, destined to combat one another till the end of eternity, their fights mutually entwined with the other's, their agenda's and abilities totally contrasting, but sharing in one common overriding factor, their hatred for one another. Some believe that the victor will cease to exist once he has destroyed his adversary, because one could not exist without the other. Some would even have it that they are two sides of the same coin, a metaphorical split personality where whichever part is missing in one half is made up in the other. Whatever the truth of the matter is, one this is for sure... this thread has been well and truly BCL10'd!

 

[mpickard2087]

FIIIIIIIIGHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTT.

 

[sloth]

And the L10 v BC battle continues. Two old foes, destined to combat one another till the end of eternity, their fights mutually entwined with the other's, their agenda's and abilities totally contrasting, but sharing in one common overriding factor, their hatred for one another. Some believe that the victor will cease to exist once he has destroyed his adversary, because one could not exist without the other. Some would even have it that they are two sides of the same coin, a metaphorical split personality where whichever part is missing in one half is made up in the other. Whatever the truth of the matter is, one this is for sure... this thread has been well and truly BCL10'd!

It's not fair, I want an adversary too!! It looked like Paolo10 was going to step up to the plate at one point but then we got all reasonable (well cordial anyway) with each other and it sort of fizzled away... We need a thread, a kind of anti-dating affair, where people can meet and find their perfect foe!

 

[Legend10]

And the L10 v BC battle continues. Two old foes, destined to combat one another till the end of eternity, their fights mutually entwined with the other's, their agenda's and abilities totally contrasting, but sharing in one common overriding factor, their hatred for one another. Some believe that the victor will cease to exist once he has destroyed his adversary, because one could not exist without the other. Some would even have it that they are two sides of the same coin, a metaphorical split personality where whichever part is missing in one half is made up in the other. Whatever the truth of the matter is, one this is for sure... this thread has been well and truly BCL10'd!

Er I don't hate BC at all, and for the record I actually agree with a fair bit of what he says!

However I don't see stats as anywhere near as important and I don't think any of our players are as bad as some make out and I find it irritating to keep calling players shit and we disagree on this, big deal!

Also you should note that I don't even post very often, so I don't think we can be having a battle!

 

[Mr Pink]

When I'm reading BC's and Legends posts....Phil Collins, groovy kind of love, seems to be playing in my head.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Er I don't hate BC at all, and for the record I actually agree with a fair bit of what he says!

However I don't see stats as anywhere near as important and I don't think any of our players are as bad as some make out and I find it irritating to keep calling players shit and we disagree on this, big deal!

Also you should note that I don't even post very often, so I don't think we can be having a battle!

It was a joke based on the fair few disagreements you two have posting very long posts back and forth. A joke. Nothing more.

 

[sloth]

Er I don't hate BC at all, and for the record I actually agree with a fair bit of what he says!

However I don't see stats as anywhere near as important and I don't think any of our players are as bad as some make out and I find it irritating to keep calling players shit and we disagree on this, big deal!

Also you should note that I don't even post very often, so I don't think we can be having a battle!

Mate, I put your posts into a spread sheet and it turns out that 62.46% of what you write is attacking BC, which compares with the forum average of only 36.3%, so it turns out that on this one, statistically you're just wrong!

 

[Legend10]

Mate, I put your posts into a spread sheet and it turns out that 62.46% of what you write is attacking BC, which compares with the forum average of only 36.3%, so it turns out that on this one, statistically you're just wrong!

Haha, but my conversion percentage?

 

[sloth]

Haha, but my conversion percentage?

Lots of shots, but not too many goals. But then BC's no better either! He's a busy fuck, but I'm not sure about end product... what we need is a metronome type poster...

 

[ShelfSide18]

Mate, I put your posts into a spread sheet and it turns out that 62.46% of what you write is attacking BC, which compares with the forum average of only 36.3%, so it turns out that on this one, statistically you're just wrong!

But what I really want to know is what is L10s 'attack BC per minute ratio'?