Read & Weep (Cuourtesy of Jair1970)

[mil1lion]

That's what I was hoping from Soldado to be honest. He had a great reputation in Spain and a lot of his goals were with 1 or 2 touches inside the box (all instincts without thinking too much on the ball). It has frustrated me these 2 past seasons that we haven't played to his strengths. We don't get the ball into the box quickly enough and it allows the opposition to get into position. A lot comes down to our slow and predictable wing play.

I think it's too late for Soldado now, 2 seasons and still not getting the job done. Plus we never look comfortable with 2 up front. In the summer I would be looking for 2 wide attackers, players who when the ball is on one wing the other wide attacker has the attacking instincts to join Kane in the box.

 

[Main Man]

AVB MKII not sure we could expect anything else.

He isn't mark II though, he is just a poorer version of him! I said this at the start of the season and everybody completely disagreed with me despite it being immediately quite clear to see. That's what made his appointment so wrong for me.

This season has been a disaster, and had we not had Kane we would be in the bottom half of the table (where we were before Kane was introduced to the Premier League team btw).

 

[TaoistMonkey]

To be fair, Kane has been one of those guiltiest of not putting people better placed into scoring positions himself.

This.

He's been awful for a few games now. It might be tiredness or believing his own hype, we don't know. I wouldn't be against dropping him for the final couple of games though to give him a bit of a rest/wake up call.

I'm so wise

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/harry-kane.77170/page-170#post-4557243

 

[Gedson100]

It would be good to see the breakdown on these stats over the season, for example did it change after Kane made the team or since Walker came back from injury and then since he's been out again.
Also the number of goals conceded may not be unconnected with the shot stats, our defending has been dismal and of course, when we go behind the opposition defend deep which restricts our "in box" shots.
We must have the lowest number of draws is all I can think.

It was put to me that maybe we were better when Capoue was in there, so I looked and we weren't. The in box shot ratio was rubbish then and has stayed rubbish.

I'm actually leanjng towards the idea that Mason isn't necessarily the problem, it could be systemic. Anyone in that position could be screwed.

 

[Blackcanary]

It was put to me that maybe we were better when Capoue was in there, so I looked and we weren't. The in box shot ratio was rubbish then and has stayed rubbish.

I'm actually leanjng towards the idea that Mason isn't necessarily the problem, it could be systemic. Anyone in that position could be screwed.

You know that scene at the end of Lord of the rings where the tower of Sauron slowly collapses from the top? That's our 4-2-3-1 at the moment. Once the front stops functioning effectively and stops applying any pressure, the effect spreads rapidly back through the whole team. Every element has to be functioning or none of it does.

 

[steve]

It was put to me that maybe we were better when Capoue was in there, so I looked and we weren't. The in box shot ratio was rubbish then and has stayed rubbish.

I'm actually leanjng towards the idea that Mason isn't necessarily the problem, it could be systemic. Anyone in that position could be screwed.

This is quite correct. Mason isn't without faults but it's the others (mainly Eriksen, Townsend and Chad) and the system we play that makes the role he plays almost set up to fail. Others dont do their job so our midfield two get pulled all over the gaff and are often outnumbered. Mason should be part of a 3 with licence to get forward. And Chad and co need to shape up off the ball or ship out.

I think Pooch is gonna get sacked next year anyway so might as well do it now and save the aggro of spunking more money on players who we'll be trying to offload in a year or two's time. Get FDB in like we should've first time round before he gets snapped up by someone else.

 

[nav007_2000]

IMO poch has only next season, to not only improve results, but improve the team and general playing style.

If we don't see vast improvement, he must go.

If we don't get 4th, he will go

 

[IGSpur]

If we don't take much shots inside box its because we don't put much balls into the box in first place.
This is what I have been saying all season - our wing play isn't good enough

Our wingers don't beat the full back on the outside & put a cross in.
Only Chadli & Rose to an extent make an effort to get behind teh full back. Dier has done it on rare occasions.
Lamela ofcourse, never does this.

IMO, this stat is very much explainable.

This can be solved by buying couple of quality wing forwards.

100% agree with this and it was the first thing I thought about when reading the article and was my explanation for why we concede shots.I got into a debate a while ago about Mason and Bentaleb and people criticised them saying they were weak defensively and got overun etc. so i showed how they were performing at a similar level to the CMs at the clubs higher than us, and people believed Capoue would make it better. I repeat I do not believe they are the reason, nor is it our CBs or FBs. Our wingers or attacking 3 aren't good enough say bar Eriksen who has also started to struggle. Defensively they can not hold onto the ball or find a man so when we are all pushed up to attack we get countered on leaving as exposed. Any defense or CMs would look exposed when we lose the ball and our FBs are supporting the attack. We will literally be left with Mason assuming he hasn't over commited to support and Bentaleb in midfield to slow an attack down before they reach our CBs, with everyone busting a gut to get back.


Other than exposing us to counters though our attackers just lack the basic ability to really create, whether it be through decent crossing or through balls. The attacking 3s main purpose is to create and get the ball into the box with others maybe creating chances at some point in the season. Our best crossers this season or what appears to be consistent chance makers are Rose and Dier when he has played at FB.

Lamela for me is our best at creating chances along with Eriksen but where he falls down is losing possession quite a lot which leads to us being countered and Hugo coming into action. Chadli while his goal scoring numbers are impressively high is nowhere near creative enough and not good enough defensively and sadly I think the same with Townsend. Dembele is the complete opposite to Lamela, he will not create but probably improves us defensively as he holds the ball well. Paulino at no.10 does neither.

We need a revamp in that area. Lpool as an example have Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling who are all tricky and creative and Ibe looks a more effective winger than now. While I don't want to sell and completely overhaul next year the only ones I am 100% certain we should keep are Eriksen and Lamela with Pritchard coming back. If we get good bids and have better replacements lined up I wouldn't be too upset about the others going. May also be worth just as an option to look to our academy and I really only mean as a 5th choice at someone like Oduwa, who is strong and powerful and can take players on the inside and out to supplement any buys we make

 

[Bus-Conductor]

100% agree with this and it was the first thing I thought about when reading the article and was my explanation for why we concede shots. Our wingers or attacking 3 arent good enough say bar Eriksen who has also started to struggle. Defensively they can not hold onto the ball or find a man so when we are all pushed up to attack we get countered on leaving as exposed.

But they just lack the basic ability to really create, whether it be through decent crossing or through balls. The attacking 3s main purpose is to create and get the ball into the box with others maybe creating chances at some point in the season. Our best crossers this season or what appears to be consistent chance makers are Rose and Dier when he has played at FB.

Lamela for me is our best at creating chances along with Eriksen but where he falls down is losing possession quite a lot which leads to us being countered and Hugo coming into action. Chadli while his goal scoring numbers are impressively high is nowhere near creative enough and not good enough defensively and sadly I think the same with Townsend. Dembele is the complete opposite to Lamela, he will not create but probably improves us defensively as he holds the ball well. Paulino at no.10 does neither.

We need a revamp in that area. Lpool as an example have Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling who are all tricky and creative and Ibe looks a more effective winger than now. While I don't want to sell and completely overhaul next year the only ones I am 100% certain we should keep are Eriksen and Lamela with Pritchard coming back. If we get good bids and have better replacements lined up I wouldn't be too upset about the others going. May also be worth just as an option to look to our academy and I really only mean as a 5th choice at someone like Oduwa, who is strong and powerful and can take players on the inside and out to supplement any buys we make

It's not a problem losing possession, if you want forward players to to take risks to create things they are going to lose possession, the problem is what we then do to recover possession. We are set up to press high ( high line, FB's high up the pitch) but we don't and this exposes our defence terribly which is why we are so easy to create (quality) chances against. That and the fact that both our regular FB's actually aren't very good at preventing people getting round them (Walker) or crosses in (Rose) - but it also has to be said they don't always get the help they should from those ahead of them either.

Also @arunspurs

I been reading this "we need better wide attackers" all season. It's utter nonsense and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the system we are trying to play - but also demonstrates Pochettino's utter failure to pick players and apply tactics conducive to it.

Playing inverted forwards is not the problem, but the you have to play attacking full backs that provide width, pace and an overlap to stretch the opposition so there are more spaces for inverted players to occupy and work in. We look better offensively when we have full backs that do this, but still suffer a little as neither Rose, but particularly Walker do anything intelligent with or without the ball.

When we had Bale and Lennon we war no more effective or successful. Both Chadli (way more) and Lamela create more than Lennon did in the last 5 years. We went two years of barely winning games between february and April. We fucked up CL two years running, we failed to win 9 homes games and that was WITH WIDE ATTACKING PLAYERS, Modric, VDV and Adebayor.


This is not me saying that having GOOD wide attackers as an option wouldn't be nice to have sometimes, it's me saying that not having them is not the problem if you:

a) You have AND CHOOSE TO PLAY decent inverted forwards AND half decent quick full backs

b) You get the players understanding what is expected of them and teach them how to go about it properly.

Therefore it is utter tactical idiocy to pick inverted attacking midfielders and playing CB's as FB's who don't want to go out of their half.

 

[coys18]

Just a quick aside, obviously I am a fan and I was generally for Poch when he arrived, so it brings no joy to describe the miserable numbers.

At one point, my working theory was that he'd turned us into Southampton, but our numbers are significantly worse! We seem to be in a state of perpetual transition, always with half a team of high earners out of favour. I accept that this needs to be addressed and building a squad for the long term is necessary, I just can't say with any confidence that we have the right coach to do that.

These numbers have projected badly all season. We overachieved mid season with a run of last gasp barely deserved victories and the form of Kane carrying us, but either side of that, whoever has been in the team, we have performed at a mediocre level. Getting trounced at Stoke is just the extreme end of this.

We're somewhat tied to Poch but he's really gonna have to hit the ground running next season, and Levy absolutely cannot fuck around on transfers this time. The deadwood has to go. Will it? It will require a change in policy from him and until players actually leave I remain sceptical that Levy will cast aside his strict accounting principles. Start next year with a couple of B grade signings and retained out of favour players & more of the same is our ceiling.

Were Southampton's figures under Pochettino better than ours under Pochettino? If so then implication is that this is more down to the players. If we had anyone who was willing to actually make a run ahead of the ball we might do alright but every single player we have seems to want to be the one who plays the final ball rather than be the one on the end of it.

 

[mpickard2087]

You know that scene at the end of Lord of the rings where the tower of Sauron slowly collapses from the top? That's our 4-2-3-1 at the moment. Once the front stops functioning effectively and stops applying any pressure, the effect spreads rapidly back through the whole team. Every element has to be functioning or none of it does.

I must have missed the bit where they started functioning effectively...

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Post of the year

Botchettino has done a brilliant job taking over a top 4 to 6 team, and turning them into some plucky overachieving mid-table club fighting for 7th. What a legend. The 'magician' transforming our aspirations before our eyes!

(Just to be clear, I'm aware you're being sarcastic. Still post of the year).

I don't really understand your post but I'm not being sarcastic.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

I'm so wise

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/harry-kane.77170/page-170#post-4557243

I remember saying the exact same thing in March.

He has jumped too much into his own hype. His best quality when playing for the reserves or U21s was his vision and passing, almost like a number 10. Besides one pass to Mason vs United and the easy through ball to Eriksen vs Sheffield United, he has become a completely selfish player.

I will say though that in the past month it probably seems worse because I'm sure the whole team is on a beach somewhere and Kane is just playing for the top goalscorer title now.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Sorry mate but I think you must be a bit deluded to think we where a "top 4" team before Poch took over.

Errrr we were......twice.

 

[SteveH]

For all our spursie bitching and whining we are going to have to let Poch sort it all out. I suggest you all have a nice cup of camomile tea and relax.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

You know that scene at the end of Lord of the rings where the tower of Sauron slowly collapses from the top? That's our 4-2-3-1 at the moment. Once the front stops functioning effectively and stops applying any pressure, the effect spreads rapidly back through the whole team. Every element has to be functioning or none of it does.

Totally agree with this.

When every player is working in unison it can be wonderful to watch but if a few players are not putting the work in, all of a sudden massive gaps appear, and we become very easy to play against.

Its why you have to be super fit and motivated to play the system. A few weak links and the whole system fails.

 

[arunspurs]

It's not a problem losing possession, if you want forward players to to take risks to create things they are going to lose possession, the problem is what we then do to recover possession. We are set up to press high ( high line, FB's high up the pitch) but we don't and this exposes our defence terribly which is why we are so easy to create (quality) chances against. That and the fact that both our regular FB's actually aren't very good at preventing people getting round them (Walker) or crosses in (Rose) - but it also has to be said they don't always get the help they should from those ahead of them either.

Also @arunspurs

I been reading this "we need better wide attackers" all season. It's utter nonsense and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the system we are trying to play - but also demonstrates Pochettino's utter failure to pick players and apply tactics conducive to it.

Playing inverted forwards is not the problem, but the you have to play attacking full backs that provide width, pace and an overlap to stretch the opposition so there are more spaces for inverted players to occupy and work in. We look better offensively when we have full backs that do this, but still suffer a little as neither Rose, but particularly Walker do anything intelligent with or without the ball.

When we had Bale and Lennon we war no more effective or successful. Both Chadli (way more) and Lamela create more than Lennon did in the last 5 years. We went two years of barely winning games between february and April. We fucked up CL two years running, we failed to win 9 homes games and that was WITH WIDE ATTACKING PLAYERS, Modric, VDV and Adebayor.


This is not me saying that having GOOD wide attackers as an option wouldn't be nice to have sometimes, it's me saying that not having them is not the problem if you:

a) You have AND CHOOSE TO PLAY decent inverted forwards AND half decent quick full backs

b) You get the players understanding what is expected of them and teach them how to go about it properly.

Therefore it is utter tactical idiocy to pick inverted attacking midfielders and playing CB's as FB's who don't want to go out of their half.

All these explanations...I have one question .

If you feel Chadli & Lamela are doing their job, then why is the statistics doesn't explain that ?
I agree stats dont explain everything - but in this case, it do points to fact that our wingers dont do enough.

Chadli has been awesone - no problems there. But most times his goals came from outiside box or in box playing second striker role - not becuase of classic wing play.Having said that Chadlis is the only winger who was successful attimes in crosses & cutbacks

And you misinterpret what I said. I dont care if wingers goes outside or inside, our wingers dont simply put the ball in the box

 

[IGSpur]

It's not a problem losing possession, if you want forward players to to take risks to create things they are going to lose possession, the problem is what we then do to recover possession.

Ye but that isn't their problem. They are not losing the ball for trying to create chances they are just losing the ball through poor passing and poor touches. Also if they can't regularly beat a man and lose the ball that is again a demonstration of the wingers not being good enough and reaffirms my point. Forward players that take risks but more times the risk they take is a successful one is down to quality of wingers. Townsend taking on a man cruyff turning and getting dispossessed is him taking a risk to create which is fair but we get countered. Hazard running at someone and beating them and creating something is him taking a risk but doing it successfully. The difference between them is their decision making and ability and general quality. I've seen us lose the ball passing square and dallying on the edge of the box.

I don't really remember us losing the ball trying to make through balls.

Rose is also not the problem he has played excellently backed up by the fact he has got quite a few goals and assists this season and off the top of my head I'd imagine he has the most from FB in a good few years for us. Attackingly Walker is poor but I don't believe either of them get beaten defensively that much for it to be a great issue

 

[Mr.D]

What was the question again?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Have a read of this fellas. Excellent piece by @jair1970 for Statsbomb that tells a pretty sorry tale. (Mods I have Jair's permission to post):


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ng-Luis-Suarez-Spurs-reveals-Ruud-Gullit.html

Holes in Tottenham

• By James Yorke
• published 05/11/2015

Holes in Tottenham

It was quite predictable that Stoke, a team with a reputation for tough play, should be able to roll over a typically soft-centered Tottenham side and so they did. Usually, I might just point out a few issues surrounding the dismal performance and proffer a positive solution but this week happens to coincide with a bit of research I carried out which paints a dismal picture of where Tottenham are with regard their inability to prevent chances. Amongst analytic types, this is not a new theory, i’m reminded of Colin Trainor and Paul Riley respectively highlighting and dryly remonstrating with Tottenham’s defensive issues. This plight has been a bit of an elephant in my room: I knew it was there, but tried to ignore it. Hugo Lloris has had a great season? Well, you only get that kind of swift analysis when a keeper is busy, and he sure has been.

I’m not normally drawn to location work but I’ve had a look at shooting rates inside and outside the box. This is a simple yet reasonable proxy for identifying teams that create “good chances” and has proven revealing, the in-box stuff also slightly improves on overall shot ratio with regard predictability, at least for this season. Here are the in-box shot ratios (up to May 8th):


Quickly we can identify six of the top seven clubs occupying the top six slots, which makes perfect sense. As with overall shot ratios, Man City and Liverpool look better here than their league performances indicate; their problems have to a degree revolved around conversion. Tottenham, in contrast a team that has ridden fairly high for conversion has a serious problem here. A 44% shot ratio inside the box is incredibly bad, it pegs them as being as capable of creating chances in the box at the same rate as relegation candidates. Indeed the raw numbers show that they have conceded about as many shots here as Burnley, Leicester and West Ham, with only QPR significantly exceeding that total. These are not the hallmarks of a top side.

Overall, Tottenham’s shot ratios have declined year on year, and their overall TSR of 52% is the worst they have recorded in the enlightened era (2009-10 onwards). It is actually 7% worse than Pochettino achieved with Southampton last season and is ironically, identical to Stoke’s TSR, a team that whilst widely deemed inferior, has now beaten Tottenham twice.

Andre Villas Boas was regularly castigated by fans who believed that his brand of football was sterile and non-creative. He was criticised for encouraging long range shooting and passing for the sake of passing, so apropos of nothing, here are the out-of-box shot ratios for Pochettino’s Tottenham, a team that also ranks 3rd in the league for possession:


Tottenham take a high percentage of their shots from range and struggle to create opportunities inside the box. Defensively they have failed to limit the opposition’s ability to enter the box and take shots from within. In isolation topping a shot chart might seem good, but when wedded to failing in a more important chart, it is alarming.

The similarities with the Villas Boas era are clear, as are the intransigence and the squad issues. The differences too: there is no shot dominance in 2014-15. I’m inclined to believe that the primary reason for this is systemic. On the front end, Kane is somewhat isolated in the 4-2-3-1 system and can lack support at times. In defense, the porous central midfield has been a common concern with attention slowly turning to the entire defensive unit. And the recent collapse in form is easily attributed to tiredness and a lack of rotation, but perhaps also to chickens coming home to roost? The narrow victories that characterised the mid-season have given way to draws and defeats, an inevitable by-product of a lack of dominance. Michael Caley wrote on this point last season with a case study on er… Tottenham. Both Villas Boas and Pochettino arrived with reputations as prescriptive and detailed coaches wedded to their systems and methods. Each has suffered with implementation and struggled to consistently succeed with their concepts in actual games.

That this season would be one of transition was never in doubt, and that in itself is nothing new but too many aspects of performance are currently in the bin, so much so that I would propose that improvement both underlying and in general will be a mandatory requirement set at board level next year. Any post-season performance analysis that churns out nuggets like these would likely kill off most Tottenham coaches:

• Tottenham (53) have conceded more goals that Sunderland (50) and Hull (49) and the same amount as Burnley.
• Tottenham (12) have lost only one fewer game than Sunderland (13)
• They have now conceded more shots on target (169) than they have taken (166)
• They rank 19th/20 for opposition conversion rates, no doubt powered by all those in box shots.

Under Redknapp and in Villas Boas’ initial season, Tottenham punched above their weight and took advantage particularly of Liverpool’s wobbles to regularly finish 4th or 5th. However, during this time the team’s play consistently projected to be that good. What is most concerning now is that the projections start at 7th and could arguably be lower. There is a new team in charge of recruitment and a commitment to finding players in a younger bracket and developing them, much like with Bale or Modric, has been mooted. These are admirable policies but alongside this, the £100m splurge off the back of Bale’s departure seems to be held up as a mistake. I’d argue the error wasn’t in the intention but more the execution. To have any chance of challenging for top four places once more, a mix of promise and fully realised quality is necessary, otherwise 5th to 7th is the long term. It will soon be transfer season, the sale boards are up and the toughest negotiator in town has plenty to do. Rumours persist about higher level players departing and new blood is sorely required. Once more, expectations around Tottenham have had to be tempered. Improvement is required but this time it will be starting from a lower base than usual.

- See more at: http://statsbomb.com/2015/05/holes-...d-dont-fear-the-numbers/#sthash.ebN8plj7.dpuf

Guys and Gals

I did not write this piece (though I agree with it and have allied to some of the problems in posts). So those that have given me ratings, please find a post (there's one in here) of @jair1970 and give hime the kudos, not me, I just cut and pasted his work.