Read & Weep (Cuourtesy of Jair1970)

[Bus-Conductor]

Ye but that isn't their problem. They are not losing the ball for trying to create chances they are just losing the ball through poor passing and poor touches. Also if they can't regularly beat a man and lose the ball that is again a demonstration of the wingers not being good enough and reaffirms my point. Forward players that take risks but more times the risk they take is a successful one is down to quality of wingers. Townsend taking on a man cruyff turning and getting dispossessed is him taking a risk to create which is fair but we get countered. Hazard running at someone and beating them and creating something is him taking a risk but doing it successfully. The difference between them is their decision making and ability and general quality. I've seen us lose the ball passing square and dallying on the edge of the box.

I don't really remember us losing the ball trying to make through balls.

Rose is also not the problem he has played excellently backed up by the fact he has got quite a few goals and assists this season and off the top of my head I'd imagine he has the most from FB in a good few years for us. Attackingly Walker is poor but I don't believe either of them get beaten defensively that much for it to be a great issue

We lost a goal in a very recent game (I know because I pointed it out) because Eriksen failed to make a through ball he was trying.

I agree that all our lot are lacking in the ability to produce enough moments of composed craft in the final third. But I thought you were complaining about them trying and failing. It's why I've argued Lamela's case, because he does try to deliver something most games, and at least when's not he's working and getting stuck in.


Rose continually lets opponents cross the ball and there are times when he's jogging back instead of sprinting. Walker's positional sense is that of a 7 yo but to be fair he never jogs, if he fucks up or is behind play he always sprints.

I think Rose has done OK going forward, but I still think he wastes an awful lot of situations, and it's not like he's close always, it's that he gets no where near delivering the right final choice too often. He's improved year on year so I guess we can hope he continues to improve. Walker on the other hand has a major problem between his ears. He never learns, he hasn't improved an inch since his first game. Continually makes the same mistakes over and over and over.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Errrr we were......twice.

Before AVB we were.

 

[RButch]

I thought this was all common knowledge for the last 2-3 years.

 

[IGSpur]

We lost a goal in a very recent game (I know because I pointed it out) because Eriksen failed to make a through ball he was trying.

I agree that all our lot are lacking in the ability to produce enough moments of composed craft in the final third. But I thought you were complaining about them trying and failing. It's why I've argued Lamela's case, because he does try to deliver something most games, and at least when's not he's working and getting stuck in.


Rose continually lets opponents cross the ball and there are times when he's jogging back instead of sprinting. Walker's positional sense is that of a 7 yo but to be fair he never jogs, if he fucks up or is behind play he always sprints.

I think Rose has done OK going forward, but I still think he wastes an awful lot of situations, and it's not like he's close always, it's that he gets no where near delivering the right final choice too often. He's improved year on year so I guess we can hope he continues to improve. Walker on the other hand has a major problem between his ears. He never learns, he hasn't improved an inch since his first game. Continually makes the same mistakes over and over and over.

Maybe I wasn't clear, I have no problem in them trying and failing that is what I can appreciate and that is what I want them to do, it is just we need better players to do it so the risks are lessened. I have also defended Lamela and in the post you replied to the to I actually said that the two I wanted to keep or don't have a problem with are Lamela and Eriksen, as despite their faults (Eriksen's form and Lamela being dispossessed) they are our most effective/creative attacking players. Like you said Lamela also get's stuck in. While Dembele primarily doesn't create he is good at holding onto the ball and it wouldn't surprise me if we generally gave away less chances when he was in the attacking 3 as we would be less susceptible to the counter. I wouldn't mind keeping Dembele for this reason but I would prefer my attacking options to be taken up by players that create. For all his faults I appreciate Townsend's determiantion in trying to create but he is someone who does not provide enough quality but will also lose the ball a lot. So the amount of times he creates to losing the ball is probably in the latter's favour and I think essentially this is the problem with our defensive record, too many of those players.

As @arunspurs said Chadli is an interesting case his numbers are good but it is primarily due to him finding himself in striker positions rather than creating goals for himself and others through excellent wing play. He is also not good enough defensively for someone so big which makes use susceptible to being countered. As @DaSpurs has hinted to in the past he could/should be considered for a 3rd striker role even though as I do not think he is good enough for the wings.

I still think you are being a lil bit harsh on Rose but appreciate you have seen him improve, I think that's a more agree to disagree thing as I don't think we'll be able to find better and I think we have more urgent needs elsewhere.

Walker I 100% agree on. I don't even think he is poor defensively in terms of positioning and being taken on, his biggest problem is himself. Doing stupid things like volleying a ball across the backline or heading the ball back to the keeper from the halfway line with 2 strikers between him. He hasn't got rid of those problems and his attacking ability hasn't improved at all. I would not be averse to selling him with Fredericks, Yedlin plus KWP in the wings. But I appreciate his effort

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Maybe I wasn't clear, I have no problem in them trying and failing that is what I can appreciate and that is what I want them to do, it is just we need better players to do it so the risks are lessened. I have also defended Lamela and in the post you replied to the to I actually said that the two I wanted to keep or don't have a problem with are Lamela and Eriksen, as despite their faults (Eriksen's form and Lamela being dispossessed) they are our most effective/creative attacking players. Like you said Lamela also get's stuck in. While Dembele primarily doesn't create he is good at holding onto the ball and it wouldn't surprise me if we generally gave away less chances when he was in the attacking 3 as we would be less susceptible to the counter. I wouldn't mind keeping Dembele for this reason but I would prefer my attacking options to be taken up by players that create. For all his faults I appreciate Townsend's determiantion in trying to create but he is someone who does not provide enough quality but will also lose the ball a lot. So the amount of times he creates to losing the ball is probably in the latter's favour and I think essentially this is the problem with our defensive record, too many of those players.

As @arunspurs said Chadli is an interesting case his numbers are good but it is primarily due to him finding himself in striker positions rather than creating goals for himself and others through excellent wing play. He is also not good enough defensively for someone so big which makes use susceptible to being countered. As @DaSpurs has hinted to in the past he could/should be considered for a 3rd striker role even though as I do not think he is good enough for the wings.

I still think you are being a lil bit harsh on Rose but appreciate you have seen him improve, I think that's a more agree to disagree thing as I don't think we'll be able to find better and I think we have more urgent needs elsewhere.

Walker I 100% agree on. I don't even think he is poor defensively in terms of positioning and being taken on, his biggest problem is himself. Doing stupid things like volleying a ball across the backline or heading the ball back to the keeper from the halfway line with 2 strikers between him. He hasn't got rid of those problems and his attacking ability hasn't improved at all. I would not be averse to selling him with Fredericks, Yedlin plus KWP in the wings. But I appreciate his effort

Fair enough, pretty much agree first paragraph.

I've said the same on Chadli, for me he could save us having to find a back up to Kane for next season. As a striker/wide striker he's productive and just about tolerable, as an attacking midfielder that productivity is compromised by way too much frivolous waste and laziness without the ball.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Before AVB we were.

Your original post said 'before Poch'!!

Jesus H Christ...

Do you read what you write?

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Your original post said 'before Poch'!!

Jesus H Christ...

Do you read what you write?

Duh, maybe you should follow the actual conversation instead of randomly reading a post and taking it however you want to.

 

[IGSpur]

Fair enough, pretty much agree first paragraph.

I've said the same on Chadli, for me he could save us having to find a back up to Kane for next season. As a striker/wide striker he's productive and just about tolerable, as an attacking midfielder that productivity is compromised by way too much frivolous waste and laziness without the ball.

I have my doubts as Chadli as a striker as I don't quite his finishing is upto it I guess it would take time to learn the role, but I am loathe to get rid of someone who has scored 10 league goals this season. It's hard to criticise that productivity but we need to find a better use for the reasons you used. Additionally I just don't envisage us signing two strikers so why not use him as a third if needs be

 

[Flashspur]

For all our spursie bitching and whining we are going to have to let Poch sort it all out. I suggest you all have a nice cup of camomile tea and relax.

Voice of reason innit. Camomile with a touch of honey thanks!

 

[Flashspur]

We lost a goal in a very recent game (I know because I pointed it out) because Eriksen failed to make a through ball he was trying.

I agree that all our lot are lacking in the ability to produce enough moments of composed craft in the final third. But I thought you were complaining about them trying and failing. It's why I've argued Lamela's case, because he does try to deliver something most games, and at least when's not he's working and getting stuck in.


Rose continually lets opponents cross the ball and there are times when he's jogging back instead of sprinting. Walker's positional sense is that of a 7 yo but to be fair he never jogs, if he fucks up or is behind play he always sprints.

I think Rose has done OK going forward, but I still think he wastes an awful lot of situations, and it's not like he's close always, it's that he gets no where near delivering the right final choice too often. He's improved year on year so I guess we can hope he continues to improve. Walker on the other hand has a major problem between his ears. He never learns, he hasn't improved an inch since his first game. Continually makes the same mistakes over and over and over.

Well if Poch recognises this then you would think 2 FB's would be high on our priority list. I'll bet you they aren't. I think we will see these two next season but hopefully a fully fit Walker which should help a bit.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Duh, maybe you should follow the actual conversation instead of randomly reading a post and taking it however you want to.[/QUOT

Following your conversation is like listening to Poch post match. None of it makes much sense in English....

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Duh, maybe you should follow the actual conversation instead of randomly reading a post and taking it however you want to.[/QUOT

Following your conversation is like listening to Poch post match. None of it makes much sense in English....

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

I got about 11 agree ratings for that post, so clearly it's just you that didnt understand it.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

This.

He's been awful for a few games now. It might be tiredness or believing his own hype, we don't know. I wouldn't be against dropping him for the final couple of games though to give him a bit of a rest/wake up call.

I really dont know, I would certainly be pointing fingers at Eriksen and Mason before I would be pointing them at Kane (though they are all young, so probably a bit harsh anyway) he has been starved up there recently, our attacking midfield trio are the most inconsistent midfielders in the premiership, seriously we need to sign Nani because then we would be breaking records for inconsistent attacking mids.

Bentaleb has to have played every game we have had in 2015 as well. If it's not working just mix it up a bit change it round, freshen it up etc. Would it really be that bad throw Dembele, Paulinho and Stambouli in from time to time. And now an again drop Eriksen. Remember when Poch would drag him off after 45 every game because he was off form, he has been off form for the last 3 months but keeps playing all the games.

I really am struggling to understand what is going on.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

Playing inverted forwards is not the problem, but the you have to play attacking full backs that provide width, pace and an overlap to stretch the opposition so there are more spaces for inverted players to occupy and work in. We look better offensively when we have full backs that do this, but still suffer a little as neither Rose, but particularly Walker do anything intelligent with or without the ball.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, completely agree but as we found out with AVB (Rose injury) and now with Poch (Walker injury) the system does not work without good attacking fullbacks on either side, so if we aint got the full backs - change the system. You also play the team in front of you and change accordingly, unless you have a comfortably better team on the pitch you have to adapt and be flexible. Something Poch is not.

 

[NEVILLEB]

It doesn't matter who your coach is if they aren't given the right players.

The only time we've ever built a balanced side/squad was under Redknapp. The only reason that happened is he pushed for players like Parker, Gallas, Crouch, Friedel, Gudjohnsen, etc....

Older, experienced squad players who would balance out the team.

The fans on here need to take personal responsibility for backing Levy's revamp of the entire coaching staff and squad. Most we're happy to see Redknapp go and any Levy criticism was dismissed as being unfair.

We've ended up exactly where you end up if your Chairman is making the football decisions.

 

[TheGreenLily]

If we don't take much shots inside box its because we don't put much balls into the box in first place.
This is what I have been saying all season - our wing play isn't good enough

Our wingers don't beat the full back on the outside & put a cross in.
Only Chadli & Rose to an extent make an effort to get behind teh full back. Dier has done it on rare occasions.
Lamela ofcourse, never does this.

IMO, this stat is very much explainable.

This can be solved by buying couple of quality wing forwards.

Because Lamela is not a winger, he should be up front with the striker.

Which is damning, as we just seem to be square players to fit into round holes.

 

[900triumph]

Why the surprise that there's not been a huge difference overall? Same players same abilities and attributes whether manager has been Poch or AVB. A big chunk of Mourinho's genius is in making decisions regarding the make up of the team and having the skill set he wants. We can't compete with that sadly, even if we had the Special One as our manager. I'd like to see him succeed with the defenders we had available against Stoke. Mind you WTF was Poch doing letting Vlad back in? I'd rather play an unknown youngster.

 

[DiscoD1882]

Glad there's evidence to back this up. We have been stunningly poor at working the ball into the box for three seasons now.

and for three seasons we have had inverted wingers. no wonder we dont get ball in the box. I am assuming this covers crosses into the box.

 

[eddiebailey]

It doesn't matter who your coach is if they aren't given the right players.

The only time we've ever built a balanced side/squad was under Redknapp. The only reason that happened is he pushed for players like Parker, Gallas, Crouch, Friedel, Gudjohnsen, etc....

Older, experienced squad players who would balance out the team.

The fans on here need to take personal responsibility for backing Levy's revamp of the entire coaching staff and squad. Most we're happy to see Redknapp go and any Levy criticism was dismissed as being unfair.

We've ended up exactly where you end up if your Chairman is making the football decisions.

I am not part of the anti-Levy brigade, but I find myself agreeing with much of that.