Read & Weep (Cuourtesy of Jair1970)

[Bus-Conductor]

All these explanations...I have one question .

If you feel Chadli & Lamela are doing their job, then why is the statistics doesn't explain that ?
I agree stats dont explain everything - but in this case, it do points to fact that our wingers dont do enough.

Chadli has been awesone - no problems there. But most times his goals came from outiside box or in box playing second striker role - not becuase of classic wing play.Having said that Chadlis is the only winger who was successful attimes in crosses & cutbacks

And you misinterpret what I said. I dont care if wingers goes outside or inside, our wingers dont simply put the ball in the box

I don't think Chadli has been doing his job without the ball, and I think for much of the last 3 months he's been poor in general with and without the ball. Overall this season his productivity has been good, but without the ball he's been one of the reasons Pochetino can't get his system working.

 

[Database]

Juande Ramos v.0.1.

 

[Shea]

Because Lamela is not a winger, he should be up front with the striker.

Which is damning, as we just seem to be square players to fit into round holes.

This has been a real issue I had with the Bale window

We brought in Paulhino, Chadli, Erkisen, Lamela who I thought were all best suited to playing the no.10 role behind a striker

Now whether I am right or not - many have suggested Erkisen is more effective cutting in from the LWF position for example - I still think the problems in team building this presents that I eluded to at the time exists

Each of those players are at their best looking to support a striker, get in amoungst the goals and not really put much of a shift in defensively (again here Lamela has surprised me with his work rate and intention to help the defense even if he's not very good at it)

It is (as you say) all very square pegs and round holes ish though - we seemed devoid of a transfer plan that was based on building a strong team with components that would compliment one another and produce a strong team in line with the managerial tactics and ethos

There seems so much more to transfers when building a team than just the quality of a player, and it really seems like we just bought a bunch of indivduals based on how good we thought they were or at least how profitable we thought they might become in the future without assessing their skill set in regards to how well it would fit in to the needs of our manager and our team

Example, playing a high defensive line under AVB did not suit John Terry at Chelsea because of his lack of pace and it made an outstanding EPL centreback look pretty terrible for the period of time he was forced to play that way. Again, not Terry's fault but it highlights how teams must be built around more than simply isolated individual talent if you want to develop a strong unit that suits the tactics the manager is going to implement

Poch clearly favours 4-2-3-1

For this to work surely we need players who are suited to that system and suited to one another within the system?

Fast full backs to provide the width, a dominant loan striker in the box who will score goals as well as be able to bring others in to play, centre backs who are well organised and can keep the defensive unit strong while the full backs bomb forward overlapping the wing players and CM's capable of rotating a strong defensive duty when the full backs live the defensive line exposed as well as being able to support the attack and get in the box lampard style with well timed runs to nagate the loss of bodies in attacking areas left by having only one striker and no no.10

The wing players also need to be fast, strong and a mix of strikers who score goals, busy players who support the full backs and creative players who can help set up the lone striker

Now when I read that back to myself I am aware I sound unreasonable with my suggested demands and it's unrealistic to expect so many qualities from so many players, but, they don't need to be experts in all these areas they just need to be capable and they need to have understandings with one another (when to cover while someone else attacks, when to attack someone else covers or the attack needs support, how to hunt in packs and press as a unit)

I think we actually have a talent squad, that's not my issue with any of the players. My issue is as you mention the mishapen pegs being slapped into holes all over the pitch and nothing ever looking remotely like a cohesive team unit

This is the real reason I think so many need to be sold, because they simply do not fit in to the managers system and do not compliment one another. Why for example do we have so many players who in my opinion are more suited to playing a number 10 role when we play a system that doesn't utilise a number 10?

So much work to do, I can only hope that now we have revamped our scouting and transfer target identifying set up that the needs of the squads will be the number one focus and all incoming signing will be brought in based on their ability to address those needs and make us that cohesive unit that performance exceeds the sum of it's parts instead of looking for quality indivduals that will hopefully increase in value regardless of whether or not they suit the players around them or the managers system

 

[jezz]

I don't think Chadli has been doing his job without the ball, and I think for much of the last 3 months he's been poor in general with and without the ball. Overall this season his productivity has been good, but without the ball he's been one of the reasons Pochetino can't get his system working.

Stats don't show the whole picture.
The problem with most fans they see goals scored and think there great.
These fans don't understand the concept of the off the ball work.
This is especially important in MPs philosophy(although it seems the philosophy has fcuked off to beach for the summer)
I know it's hard but people should try watching the players without the ball and learn to appreciate how much this helps the play.
Although I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I got about 11 agree ratings for that post, so clearly it's just you that didnt understand it.

Wow....

You must be so proud.

Your post STATED the times before Poch. That much everyone can read, it's just you who wrote it who is in denial of it. To make your day do you want me to 'agree' with your post as it's all that matters to you?

 

[ethanedwards]

Stats don't show the whole picture.
The problem with most fans they see goals scored and think there great.
These fans don't understand the concept of the off the ball work.
This is especially important in MPs philosophy(although it seems the philosophy has fcuked off to beach for the summer)
I know it's hard but people should try watching the players without the ball and learn to appreciate how much this helps the play.
Although I'm not holding my breath.[/QUOTE
To state that most fans don't understand off the ball work, is breathtakingly arrogant.

 

[DaSpurs]

and for three seasons we have had inverted wingers. no wonder we dont get ball in the box. I am assuming this covers crosses into the box.

Crosses aren't the only way of getting the ball into the box. In fact, I prefer working the ball into the box on the ground, as it's more controlled and less hopeful. But we aren't quick to get forward enough to do this and don't have enough pace or clever movement to create and exploit spaces. Hence, we resort to hopeful crosses into already stacked and organized boxes. Crossing is most effective against sides backpedalling and trying to catch the play, but we're crossing into boxes full of defenders facing outwards.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Wow....

You must be so proud.

Your post STATED the times before Poch. That much everyone can read, it's just you who wrote it who is in denial of it. To make your day do you want me to 'agree' with your post as it's all that matters to you?

Before Poch, as in the squad he inherited from AVB, which was not a 'top 4' team in any shape or form. Are you really that foolish to think anyone is unaware that we finished in the top 4 twice under Redknapp?

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Before Poch, as in the squad he inherited from AVB, which was not a 'top 4' team in any shape or form. Are you really that foolish to think anyone is unaware that we finished in the top 4 twice under Redknapp?

Reading on Saturdays match thread that very thing. One fan THFC i think said "one" top four finish. I keep on telling you not to assume.

Finished having to correct you, as we both know who's the foolish one.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Reading on Saturdays match thread that very thing. One fan THFC i think said "one" top four finish. I keep on telling you not to assume.

Finished having to correct you, as we both know who's the foolish one.

Face it, you completely misunderstood the context of my post and when you realized resorted to bitchy comments which only made you look immature. Well done.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Face it, you completely misunderstood the context of my post and when you realized resorted to bitchy comments which only made you look immature. Well done.

your the one needing to act your age not your shoe size.

Goodbye.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

@ethanedwards
I think he makes a fair point when he says many fans don't really pay much attention to off the ball work. They are far more likely to notice overt attention grabbing things that players do than nuanced things they don't do.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

your the one needing to act your age not your shoe size.

Goodbye.

Very original

 

[SpursManChris]

Any post-season performance analysis that churns out nuggets like these would likely kill off most Tottenham coaches:

• Tottenham (53) have conceded more goals that Sunderland (50) and Hull (49) and the same amount as Burnley.
• Tottenham (12) have lost only one fewer game than Sunderland (13)
• They have now conceded more shots on target (169) than they have taken (166)
• They rank 19th/20 for opposition conversion rates, no doubt powered by all those in box shots.

What evidence is there to support that? A first season sacking based on some random stats?

 

[jezz]

Really? Try reading some of the posts on this site.
The player doing sweet FA who scores grabs the headlines.
While the player that actually works for the team but doesn't score gets slated.
What about if that player who works for the team stops chances by tracking back and getting stuck in?
I won't hold my breath.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

What evidence is there to support that? A first season sacking based on some random stats?

Not my words (@jair1970 ) but they are pretty awful stats and we've had managers sacked while producing much better performance numbers.

Not sure what you mean by random ?

 

[SpursManChris]

we've had managers sacked while producing much better performance numbers.

First season?

 

[jezz]

First season?

Here comes the Sherwood stats.

 

[Database]

Here comes the Sherwood stats.

Well, 59 percent win ratio is second to none.

 

[Gedson100]

What evidence is there to support that? A first season sacking based on some random stats?

If we are shit and come 7th in any other situation barring now, because we are in a board backed transition period, I would suggest that the coach's job would be under threat.

That's it.