So we've switched to Zonal marking?

[Babylon22]

Looks like a disaster waiting to happen. I remember Ramos trying something similar. Our players don't seem to understand how it works.

 

[L-man]

I'm sure I read about a manager about a year ago (Big Sam maybe) who studied thousands of corner kicks and statistically Zonal marking conceded less and cleared more corners. Can't imagine AVBs brought it in for no reason, teething problems as it's new. I'm sure it will benefit us in the long run

 

[L-man]

Trying to find the article I read and found this. Interesting read. Can't post the graph as it doesn't let me

Of course, this doesn't paint the whole picture considering Liverpool were a top team and generally would have conceded less corners. But it can be compared to our situation obviously and I don't think the system "just doesn't work". It can work and hopefully it will benefit us if we continue to use it

http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/index.php?act=mostrarBlog&id_entrada=32&idioma=i

At the Audience with Rafa Benitez last Sunday in Liverpool, some fans wanted to know the true data about marking at set pieces whether the marking is zonal or man to man or a mixture.

In answer to the question, Rafa showed the table below. (The data is provided by Opta).

From the table, it can clearly be seen that, during his time at Liverpool, the team were twice the best in the Premier League at preventing goals from set pieces. During the years under Rafa’s management, they were always in the top 4 at conceding from set pieces except for one season when they fell below this high standard.

During this time, Liverpool were using zonal marking when defending corners and this aroused a lot of debate, yet the figures in the table were never really included in these discussions. All the other teams in the Premier League at the time were mostly using man to man marking and their figures do not show that this type of marking is any better than zonal marking, in fact, in the majority of cases it is shown to be worse. As a comparison, the table also shows Liverpool last season under two different managers when the team changed to man to man marking and they conceded the same amount of goals as in the one poor statistic under Rafa Benitez. Manchester City are currently top of the league and they are using zonal marking.

So what does this data show? As Rafa said at the Empire Theatre on Sunday, it shows that it should not be the system that is blamed for conceding goals at set pieces but it will always depend on the determination, concentration and ability in the air of the players at the moment of delivery of the set piece. The data certainly does not show that one system will always be better than the other. It is about using the right system for the right players at the right time. In fact, at Liverpool the zonal marking evolved through the years under Rafa to take in to consideration the changes in personnel of the team but still maintained the high success rate.

 

[yojambo]

I'm unconvinced by Zonal marking, i can't actually think of any teams that have great success with it.
Are there any?

 

[neogenisis]

Scared the shit out of me.

 

[absolute bobbins]

It's preseason dawg, time to try shit out yo!

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

I'm unconvinced by Zonal marking, i can't actually think of any teams that have great success with it.
Are there any?

I don't get it.

Man marking is simple IMHO, if you keep tight to your man and don't let him get the run on you, they won't score.

Zonal means you're not tight to them they can run where they want, there will be confusion etc.

 

[Dougal]

Nothing else has worked.

 

[Babylon22]

Were we really that bad at defending set pieces last season? Is this drastic change necessary?

 

[robin09]

Players on the posts defending corners was refreshing. Not much use if it goes over Danny Rose's head, though.

I don't like zonal marking. If it concedes less goals statistically, ok. But it seems illogical, you're allowing opposition players to drift around unchecked.

 

[Gbspurs]

Were we really that bad at defending set pieces last season? Is this drastic change necessary?

We were joint top with most goals conceded from a corner I think.

 

[Wardy]

I hate zonal marking, it's been proven that its awful! How can zonal be better than man marking, I just don't get it

 

[Damian99]

I hate zonal marking, it's been proven that its awful! How can zonal be better than man marking, I just don't get it

If you can get it working, it must be more simplistic??(not the word i am looking for). Man Marking you will get players dragged all over the place as well as having to also keep an eye on the ball, lose sight of one or the other for a split second is costly.

Zonal, does NOT mean you are just supposed to stand around and wait for the ball to hit you on the head. What we are not doing at present, is attacking the ball as it comes into the individuals appointed zone. This is probably due to it's early stages of implementing it. Nothing wrong with using it during pre season games. Players need to understand their roles exactly, fine opposition players can make a run BUT that shouldn't/or won't be an issue if Zonal marking has players(all of them) understanding what they need to do. Todays goal was scored when the ball came over siggys head and the next man didn't attack the ball as it entered his Zone.

And we conceded goals from set plays last season on a regular basis, so it cannot just be about using Zonal marking now.

 

[sparx100]

Do not like zonal marking. Can't think of any decent teams deploying it as a tactic?

 

[razorruddock]

I love zonal defending (NOT marking), when it works obviously. Somebody referred to Ramos going zonal. What happened was that we were chaotic on defending corners, we then went part zonal and that made it better. It does rely on every player to do their job in their zone.

I think this is a typical reaction from fans. Soldado did not do his job, there was nothing wrong with the system. A lot of teams use it to some extent, usually with three to four players defending the spaces, and the rest marking and obstructing. It annoyed me today how the commentator simplified things. Tons of goals are conceded with man marking. The weakness of it being that if your next to your player, he will make a move and you do not know where his going - you will lose track.

I will say that our zonal defending on the corner looked messy, like too many players were doing it which can only cause confusion. Three to four will suffice.

 

[danielneeds]

I hate zonal marking, it's been proven that its awful! How can zonal be better than man marking, I just don't get it

Where has it been proven, other than by lazy old school Match of the Day pundits?

Whenever a team concedes a goal using zonal marking, those pundits label the system the as failing, whenever someone concedes using man-to-man it is individual error, so no problem with the system then...

 

[SpurSince57]

Oh, no, it's a Babyloon thread.

Maybe anyone believing that 'It's a disaster waiting to happen' should check out Liverpool's defensive record under Benitez. Except for 04-05 and 09-10 they conceded fewer than 30 a season. Ours should be so good.

 

[parklane1]

Zonal marking is a skill that when it works is easier for defenders to do. But it takes time to adapt to.

 

[Krafty]

I think its going to cost us. Full zonal or full man marking doesn't work, you either get a collective fuck up or an individual one, you need to combine the positives of both.

Have a couple of men cutting out the near post, then people getting tight to stop the opposition having a run. With zonal marking you can be undone by a good ball, plus it gives clear areas for the opposition to attack with a running jump as opposed to our standing jump.

Also someone like Danny Rose is pretty much irrelevant in a zonal system unless the ball comes at knee height (bless him) but in a man marking system he can use his strength to block off a runner (and he's not going to get penalised if he holds off someone eight inches taller than him). Everton used this trick against Sami Hyppia (about 6'4), putting Mark Pembridge (around 5'7) on him with the simple task of stopping him getting a run. If he gets past your small man, well, he was getting past bigger men easily enough anyway. If he doesn't you have negated one of their key set piece attackers while freeing up one of your big men to attack and clear the ball.

Also, we have a goalkeeper in Hugo Lloris who loves to command his area - why are we putting up a line of men on the edge of his six yard box to block the way? He's a good keeper but no one has the reflexes to stop a bullet header they haven't seen coming from 4 yards out a la the Espanyol goal.

I'm really worried about it as it looks more like a rugby lineout than a defensive system at the moment.

 

[tiger666]

I think its going to cost us. Full zonal or full man marking doesn't work, you either get a collective fuck up or an individual one, you need to combine the positives of both.

Have a couple of men cutting out the near post, then people getting tight to stop the opposition having a run. With zonal marking you can be undone by a good ball, plus it gives clear areas for the opposition to attack with a running jump as opposed to our standing jump.

Also someone like Danny Rose is pretty much irrelevant in a zonal system unless the ball comes at knee height (bless him) but in a man marking system he can use his strength to block off a runner (and he's not going to get penalised if he holds off someone eight inches taller than him). Everton used this trick against Sami Hyppia (about 6'4), putting Mark Pembridge (around 5'7) on him with the simple task of stopping him getting a run. If he gets past your small man, well, he was getting past bigger men easily enough anyway. If he doesn't you have negated one of their key set piece attackers while freeing up one of your big men to attack and clear the ball.

Also, we have a goalkeeper in Hugo Lloris who loves to command his area - why are we putting up a line of men on the edge of his six yard box to block the way? He's a good keeper but no one has the reflexes to stop a bullet header they haven't seen coming from 4 yards out a la the Espanyol goal.

I'm really worried about it as it looks more like a rugby lineout than a defensive system at the moment.

Great post. Pretty much summed up how I feel about it.