Sorry,mickey mouse comp will derail our season

[dontcallme]

Winning the EL would be worth in the region of £25 million to a club like Spurs - some 10-15% of our entire turnover.

And given that Levy haggles over the last £100,000 of every deal, I think it's safe to say that he will at least give the Europa League a second thought.

But his point was that Levy would put money in the aim of getting top four but wouldn't in the hope of winning the EL.

 

[SteveH]

Winning the EL would be worth in the region of £25 million to a club like Spurs - some 10-15% of our entire turnover.

And given that Levy haggles over the last £100,000 of every deal, I think it's safe to say that he will at least give the Europa League a second thought.

Still think £25m is a little on high side and does not take into account traveling and match bonuses in other words, costs.

For the last time, in isolation all competitions are worthy. Its when you look at the total squad as a resource over the season the club set its goals and the EL & Cups are not 'this season' a priority.

 

[jambreck]

Its all about risk and reward.

This season we need top four. Its what the whole summer transfers strategy was for.

The rest for me is a bonus and there we must get the maximum reward while minimising the risk to our main aim.

I would like to win the lot - but that is not going to happen.

EL, FA Cup, League cup we all have our views.

We must look after our key players better than we did last night.

You consistently overlook the fact that "looking after our key players" includes giving them sufficient game time to keep them match fit and, more importantly, to keep them happy. We have a deep squad of high quality players. If we cannot give them game time (and we will not be able to give them game time if we don't take cup competitions seriously), then they will become very unhappy and will want to leave.

We need to have a deep squad of high quality players to qualify for the CL. We will not be able to keep a deep squad of high quality players if we cannot offer them sufficient game time. That is all there is to it.

Other points, that have been made by many posters before in this thread but which you have consistently failed to address include:

- performing well in the EL increases our UEFA coefficient and therefore makes it more likely that we will be in the top two tiers of seeds. That, in turn, increases the likelihood that we will be drawn in an easier group and stand a better chance of progressing to the latter stages, as and when we do qualify for the CL.

- the presumption is that, if we do qualify for the CL, you would at least like us to take that competition seriously? In which case, isn't it better that the players get used to competing on all fronts now?

- winning the EL would be worth some £25 million to Spurs. That is a lot of money and could help to increase the depth and quality of our squad even further. Or it could contribute 10% of the cost of our new stadium which will, in turn, massively increase our revenue earning potential and so improve our chances of consistently challenging for top honours.

- big clubs.....successful clubs have a winning mentality. That's what we need if we are to join them. We won't get it by opting out of every other competition just to finish fourth in the Premier League.

- winning trophies.......that's where glory lies - not finishing as third runners up.

 

[jambreck]

Still think £25m is a little on high side and does not take into account traveling and match bonuses in other words, costs.

For the last time, in isolation all competitions are worthy. Its when you look at the total squad as a resource over the season the club set its goals and the EL & Cups are not 'this season' a priority.

Europa League prize money; ticket and corporate hospitality receipts for 8 home games; added catering, match programme and merchandising revenue for 8 home games; share of ticket receipts for final; TV rights for 17 games; sponsorship value (especially important for Spurs, given that we negotiate separate cup and league shirt sponsorship deals).........I'd say that, if anything, an estimate of £25 million is a tad on the conservative side.

As to your last point, if the cups aren't important this season, why would they be any more important next season? Or the season after that? Or the season after that?

And if you suddenly, for whatever reason, did deem cup competitions to be important and worthy of being treated with respect, what miracle would have occurred to allow you to consider the risk of injury to our players in cup competitions to be either negligible or acceptable?

 

[jambreck]

That would be very sad - but its how I see it - but its modern day sport right across the the board. You cant go back to the 80's and I'm not sure it was that rosy back then.

Of cause I'm guessing re Wigan - surely it would be common sense to want to stay up, rather than win the league cup. Or put it another way would you rather be relegated and win a cup?

Its no big deal parklane1 - don't let it get you down, its just us chewing the cud....

They won the FA Cup.

In style.

Against huge favourites, Moneybags City.

A fantastic occasion for the club.

Their first ever major honour.

A day and an achievement that the fans will never forget.

But what confuses me is the link that you're trying to make between Wigan winning the FA Cup and being relegated. Are you trying to suggest that Wigan were relegated because they went all the way in the FA Cup? That if they had exited the FA Cup in the 3rd round, they would still be a Premier League club?

If so, I'd like to know how you know this.

The only thing that I can say for sure is that Wigan had flirted with relegation for most of the previous five seasons - usually only escaping the trap door by the slimmest of margins on the final day. So it was odds on that they were going to struggle to survive last season too. And it was always likely that, one of these years, they wouldn't be able to perform a final day miracle.

A far more realistic way of looking at last season for Wigan (which doesn't require the drawing of any wholly unprovable conclusions or guesswork as to how their fans feel) is that being relegated and winning the FA Cup is a hell of a lot better than just being relegated.

 

[Colston]

Still think £25m is a little on high side and does not take into account traveling and match bonuses in other words, costs.

For the last time, in isolation all competitions are worthy. Its when you look at the total squad as a resource over the season the club set its goals and the EL & Cups are not 'this season' a priority.

Going to let you in on a little secret I learned when studying finance:

Losing out on guaranteed income this year for a slightly increased chance of potentially more income next year is a real shitty business plan. Just saying.

Even if we play a great squad in the Europa League, and even if we pick up 2-3 injuries, Norwich should still be easy, Liverpool should still be challenging and Man Utd away should still be close to impossible.

 

[jambreck]

I got no fucking idea what that what means and I don't care.

I understand the sentiment in which it was said... and you are a ****

No, seriously I don't know it what means

But I guess it is funny

QED - quod erat demonstrandum - "that which was to be proved".

It was a cheeky link between the two statements in your post that I highlighted!

 

[Shadydan]

You consistently overlook the fact that "looking after our key players" includes giving them sufficient game time to keep them match fit and, more importantly, to keep them happy. We have a deep squad of high quality players. If we cannot give them game time (and we will not be able to give them game time if we don't take cup competitions seriously), then they will become very unhappy and will want to leave.

We need to have a deep squad of high quality players to qualify for the CL. We will not be able to keep a deep squad of high quality players if we cannot offer them sufficient game time. That is all there is to it.

Other points, that have been made by many posters before in this thread but which you have consistently failed to address include:

- performing well in the EL increases our UEFA coefficient and therefore makes it more likely that we will be in the top two tiers of seeds. That, in turn, increases the likelihood that we will be drawn in an easier group and stand a better chance of progressing to the latter stages, as and when we do qualify for the CL.

- the presumption is that, if we do qualify for the CL, you would at least like us to take that competition seriously? In which case, isn't it better that the players get used to competing on all fronts now?

- winning the EL would be worth some £25 million to Spurs. That is a lot of money and could help to increase the depth and quality of our squad even further. Or it could contribute 10% of the cost of our new stadium which will, in turn, massively increase our revenue earning potential and so improve our chances of consistently challenging for top honours.

- big clubs.....successful clubs have a winning mentality. That's what we need if we are to join them. We won't get it by opting out of every other competition just to finish fourth in the Premier League.

- winning trophies.......that's where glory lies - not finishing as third runners up.

/thread

 

[TheGreenLily]

QED - quod erat demonstrandum - "that which was to be proved".

It was a cheeky link between the two statements in your post that I highlighted!

Cheers

 

[jambreck]

But his point was that Levy would put money in the aim of getting top four but wouldn't in the hope of winning the EL.

Levy will invest in the team in order for it to be successful.

Finishing in the top four is the principle goal but it isn't the limit of Levy's ambition.

Besides which, as has been argued by many, competing well in the EL aids rather than hinders the aim of achieving a top four place.

 

[Shadydan]

I speak to a couple of Wigan fans of other forums and they've said that they wouldn't swap the day out at Wembley and seeing them lift the FA Cup for anything at all, even put it over staying in the league. The way they see it they were punching above their weight for 8 years and were bound to get relegated at some point but they are confident they can bounce up again to the Prem, they're not so sure they'll experience another day out at Wembley at all.

I think Wigan was a bad example TBH

 

[senseispab]

Winners win

That's all I have to say about this.

 

[dontcallme]

I speak to a couple of Wigan fans of other forums and they've said that they wouldn't swap the day out at Wembley and seeing them lift the FA Cup for anything at all, even put it over staying in the league. The way they see it they were punching above their weight for 8 years and were bound to get relegated at some point but they are confident they can bounce up again to the Prem, they're not so sure they'll experience another day out at Wembley at all.

I think Wigan was a bad example TBH

Good friend is a Birmingham fan and he says the same about their league cup win.

He understands that they will spend time in and out of the top division but he never thought he'd see his club win a domestic cup.

 

[Colston]

[...] winning trophies.......that's where glory lies - not finishing as third runners up.

You are so right, man.

Club history isn't relevant in the way that it certainly won't play part in our games after it happened, and therefore it is easy to discard it in an internet forum debate if it suits your argument, but the legacy left to us by the greatest man in this clubs history is one of going for glory, no matter what the chance of failure.

But as it was for me, becoming a fan in the mid 90's, it was because of history, and that particular man and how so many of our fans seemed to approve of that attitude saying this is what our club should be all about. It certainly wasn't because we were awesome out on the pitch, because lets face it, it wasn't exactly a golden age of football at the Lane.

Our club should go out there with our rifles cocked and aiming for silverware, it doesn't matter if some of our men get wounded thus making the second shot more difficult, we will make do.

 

[PantherX]

You are so right, man.

Club history isn't relevant in the way that it certainly won't play part in our games after it happened, and therefore it is easy to discard it in an internet forum debate if it suits your argument, but the legacy left to us by the greatest man in this clubs history is one of going for glory, no matter what the chance of failure.

But as it was for me, becoming a fan in the mid 90's, it was because of history, and that particular man and how so many of our fans seemed to approve of that attitude saying this is what our club should be all about. It certainly wasn't because we were awesome out on the pitch, because lets face it, it wasn't exactly a golden age of football at the Lane.

Our club should go out there with our rifles cocked and aiming for silverware, it doesn't matter if some of our men get wounded thus making the second shot more difficult, we will make do.

AUDERE-EST-FACERE!!!!!

 

[Bulletspur]

I can not understand that at all, how anyone can rather finish as a runner up then a winner baffles me. Pointless playing/watching anything if all you want to be is a loser.

We had this thread a couple years ago. Winning the FA Cup versus Finishing 4th. Very long debate where the majority would rather top 4 (CL) than winning anything. I and a very few were like lone voices in the wilderness saying exactly what you said above (Bold).

 

[Mullers]

Thats probably what portsmouth thought!

I agree in the main though. Cup wins are great but they are not these days seen as progression for the clubs. Its the fans who call the shots and the attendances are the barometer. Only 29k for Thursday @WHL I read somewhere.

I disagree, right now our squad is full fantastic talented players, we just need to turn them into winners, that is what AVB is trying to do, create a culture of winning, all the best teams have this. The players of Man u and Chelsea expect to win everything, want to win everything. Once we win something, be it the league cup, FA cup or Europa cup. The players and the manager will be hungry for more and we can start a snowball effect where we are winning things for the next 5 to 10 years.

 

[Basil Brush]

We had this thread a couple years ago. Winning the FA Cup versus Finishing 4th. Very long debate where the majority would rather top 4 (CL) than winning anything. I and a very few were like lone voices in the wilderness saying exactly what you said above (Bold).

I still think the majority of fans would still prefer 4th place to an FA cup win for our long term plans.

It is just the benefits of making the CL are so much better than winning the FA cup.

An FA cup gives us great memories and a great occasion but the club is better off for making CL.

I believe most people in this thread are saying we need to get used to playing in Europe, hence the EL is beneficial, not mickey mouse. We have the depth this year to handle plenty of games and need to get used to playing lots of games for when we do play CL.

 

[Bulletspur]

I still think the majority of fans would still prefer 4th place to an FA cup win for our long term plans.

It is just the benefits of making the CL are so much better than winning the FA cup.

An FA cup gives us great memories and a great occasion but the club is better off for making CL.

I believe most people in this thread are saying we need to get used to playing in Europe, hence the EL is beneficial, not mickey mouse. We have the depth this year to handle plenty of games and need to get used to playing lots of games for when we do play CL.

This is my stance now as well.

 

[Babylon22]

Well see more of this