Spurs U21’s, U18’s and other youth news – 2015/16 Edition

[spurs9]

They are different but they would both be competing for an AM position, often the same AM position in Poch's rigid 4231, in the same way that Eriksen, Chadli, Son, Lamela and Alli are all different but also play in the same AM positions as each other at times.

Poch would ay the type of player he deems necessary and if that is a pacey dribbler, that wouldn't be Pritchard regardless if we made no more signings and if that is a creative midfielder, it wouldn't be Boufal.

 

[IGSpur]

http://udinese.it/portal/IT/handle/?hil&page=redazione_udinesechannel
E u15's playing at moment - bottom right on the page.

First of 3 games v Italy, Qatar and Russia in a friendly tournament in Italy (.Tournament Delle Nazioni)

April 24th vs Italy
April 26th vs Qatar
April 27th vs Russia

Squad ?

1. Luca Ashby-Hammond
2. Dylan Crowe
3. Bukayo Saka
4. Elijah Dixon-Bonner
5. Nathaniel Ogbeta
6. Faustino Anjorin
7. Luis Longstaff
8. Tommy Doyle
9. Rayhaan Tulloch
10. Dan Cashman
11. Xavier Amaechi
12. Bali Mumba
13. Joshua Oluwayemi (Spurs)
14. Curtis Jones
15. Tareiq Shihab
16. Zico Asare
17. Arvin Appiah
18. Fabio Sole
19. Bobby Duncan
20. Trae Coyle

I'm surprised there are nopt more Spurs players in the squad, but at this level the FA are trying out a big pool of players (often 60+ players)

Only 1 from Chelsea and us and a couple from City. No outfield players from us this time round. Still hoping Clarke gets his chance before long

 

[Spursidol]

The EL thing... Only at the start of the season are the teams poor and he also needs to keep the second unit ready, in case of injuries etc. He is using young players, the youngest team in the league, having by far the best goal difference.

So you haven't bothered to read the post before replying to it with your prejudices.

That's why I've given it a 'WTF'' rating - something I rarely do.

To recap, I am not suggesting starting the youngsters in lots of EL (or other matches), I am talking about giving youngsters time off the bench in a wide variety of matches including EL and PL - like the majority of Onomah's appearances this season.

If you care to look at van Gaal's record this season, that's substantially less than ManU have done.

And in the last 5 years or so that Spurs have brought through youngsters into the team I cannot recall an occasion that one of them have made such a bad series of errors that its cost us a point. So its not a high risk strategy - much less that playing a series of high profile expensive players whose errors have cost matches whether its Chirches, Fazio or a number of others.

 

[Norse]

So you haven't bothered to read the post before replying to it with your prejudices.

That's why I've given it a 'WTF'' rating - something I rarely do.

To recap, I am not suggesting starting the youngsters in lots of EL (or other matches), I am talking about giving youngsters time off the bench in a wide variety of matches including EL and PL - like the majority of Onomah's appearances this season.

If you care to look at van Gaal's record this season, that's substantially less than ManU have done.

And in the last 5 years or so that Spurs have brought through youngsters into the team I cannot recall an occasion that one of them have made such a bad series of errors that its cost us a point. So its not a high risk strategy - much less that playing a series of high profile expensive players whose errors have cost matches whether its Chirches, Fazio or a number of others.

In both this and the other post, you've raised your volume without making much sense, with regards to your overall argument regarding Poch and youth. I normally like your posts, so it's not a general observation.

Fundamentally, we have a young AND succesful team. He has been doing the same in previous clubs as well, so it's relevant. Like Sherwood he threw out many of the established players and replaced them with both academy players and young purchases.

With regards to individual players. Onomah is developing physically. He is visually stronger now than a year ago. Winks is close to playing. CCV is not at Toby's level, but he is primed for a slot in the team. He has built up Harrison, Bennets etc.

 

[Kilkenny Cat]

Poch is not the arbiter on how good they are, plenty of experienced youth watchers have answered that question for you.

And Kane says Hi - now viewed as potentially one of the top PL strikers. Written off by many less than 18 months agp

Poch is merely the arbiter on how much the Spurs youth play - and so far in his 2 seasons, that is not a good record.

His record at Southampton is irrelevant to Spurs now - it was only relevant to show we should expect him to bring through players. However as has been demonstrated, at Spurs his record to date is NOT good .

From this I infer that you'd prefer if we were mid-table with a lot of academy players in the team?

 

[Trix]

So you haven't bothered to read the post before replying to it with your prejudices.

That's why I've given it a 'WTF'' rating - something I rarely do.

To recap, I am not suggesting starting the youngsters in lots of EL (or other matches), I am talking about giving youngsters time off the bench in a wide variety of matches including EL and PL - like the majority of Onomah's appearances this season.

If you care to look at van Gaal's record this season, that's substantially less than ManU have done.

And in the last 5 years or so that Spurs have brought through youngsters into the team I cannot recall an occasion that one of them have made such a bad series of errors that its cost us a point. So its not a high risk strategy - much less that playing a series of high profile expensive players whose errors have cost matches whether its Chirches, Fazio or a number of others.

I think it's very clear that Poch will select them when, and only when, he feels they are ready. Watching them in training every day along side the first team will give him a far better indication of how close they actually are, than watching any amount of Youth team games (which he does a lot as well).

 

[The Scarecrow]

I think it's very clear that Poch will select them when, and only when, he feels they are ready. Watching them in training every day along side the first team will give him a far better indication of how close they actually are, than watching any amount of Youth team games (which he does a lot as well).

It's also quite obvious that it's easier to play youngsters in the absolute mess that Man Utd currently is. Van Gaal has practically nothing to lose by doing so. In our extremely well oiled machinery, however, the manager should be very careful to upset the harmony in the squad by giving the youngsters too many minutes.

 

[Spursidol]

From this I infer that you'd prefer if we were mid-table with a lot of academy players in the team?

You infer wrong

 

[Spursidol]

I think it's very clear that Poch will select them when, and only when, he feels they are ready. Watching them in training every day along side the first team will give him a far better indication of how close they actually are, than watching any amount of Youth team games (which he does a lot as well).

Sounds good.

However the number of academy players Poch gave opportunities to at Southampton (in less time than he';s spent at Spurs) is far greater than the number of opportunities given to Spurs youngsters - and the general level of the Spurs academy player is higher than that at Southampton.

So we should be hopeful that he'll do more next season on that comparison.....as the number of opportunities that have actually been given at Spurs (listed in a post yesterday) is too low to sustain a viable academy strategy

Worth recapping - I'm giving Poch top marks for 'polishing' youngsters with experience (Dier, Alli, Kane and others), but less flattering marks for bringing youngsters through fir the first time from youth team to first team (a subtle distinction for some SC'ers I know)

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think it's very clear that Poch will select them when, and only when, he feels they are ready. Watching them in training every day along side the first team will give him a far better indication of how close they actually are, than watching any amount of Youth team games (which he does a lot as well).

I think this is a bit of a hackneyed cliche trix. We haven't just seen Pritchard play for the U21's,we have watched him scrap it out and excel at in League 1 and the championship. Don't tell me that kid hadn'tt displayed the ability - and character - to be worth a place on our bench or cup starts. If The highly rated players (and this is a general consensus - not just an internal one) from our academy are not going to get chances in the various cup competitions and judiciously chosen EPL minutes from the bench etc, then we may as well close down the academy and just trade in players.

At some point that player has to make the leap from development games, training with the first team to actually playing for the first team. That's what Sporting did with Dier, that's what Lyon did with NJie, Ajax did with Eriksen, Lamela was playing for Roma aged 19. At some point we have to take that leap of faith too. They won't all work out, but it's rarely the catastrophic gamble it's painted out to be.

It's also quite obvious that it's easier to play youngsters in the absolute mess that Man Utd currently is. Van Gaal has practically nothing to lose by doing so. In our extremely well oiled machinery, however, the manager should be very careful to upset the harmony in the squad by giving the youngsters too many minutes.

That is so wrong in so many ways. You don't think the expectation is so much higher at ManU ? They are one of the biggest 4 clubs in the world, they are expected to compete for the league and CL every season, they have spent nearly 300m on signings in the last couple of years, the pressure LVG is under to achieve results dwarfs the pressure Pochettino is under.

Pochettino's philosophy is geared toward young legs and malleable young brains. We have an academy that was playing a brand of football more in tune to Pochettino's philosophy way before he got here and he's now overseeing that too. He should be more worried about how a purchase with upset the harmony that a kid already indoctrinated into his methodology.

And if you look at the evidence this is born out. If you compare how the academy players have performed with those bought in the last few years they invariably have rarely let us down, whereas many of the purchases have been far more unreliable or hit and miss.

They won't all be roaring successes, or be Harry Kane's but they have all at least been indoctrinated into the right tactical system, have the right attitude and awareness of the collective ethos.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Sounds good.

However the number of academy players Poch gave opportunities to at Southampton (in less time than he';s spent at Spurs) is far greater than the number of opportunities given to Spurs youngsters - and the general level of the Spurs academy player is higher than that at Southampton.

So we should be hopeful that he'll do more next season on that comparison.....as the number of opportunities that have actually been given at Spurs (listed in a post yesterday) is too low to sustain a viable academy strategy

Worth recapping - I'm giving Poch top marks for 'polishing' youngsters with experience (Dier, Alli, Kane and others), but less flattering marks for bringing youngsters through fir the first time from youth team to first team (a subtle distinction for some SC'ers I know)

Why do you think he gave debuts to more players from Soton, than here?

 

[Trix]

Sounds good.

However the number of academy players Poch gave opportunities to at Southampton (in less time than he';s spent at Spurs) is far greater than the number of opportunities given to Spurs youngsters - and the general level of the Spurs academy player is higher than that at Southampton.

So we should be hopeful that he'll do more next season on that comparison.....as the number of opportunities that have actually been given at Spurs (listed in a post yesterday) is too low to sustain a viable academy strategy

Worth recapping - I'm giving Poch top marks for 'polishing' youngsters with experience (Dier, Alli, Kane and others), but less flattering marks for bringing youngsters through fir the first time from youth team to first team (a subtle distinction for some SC'ers I know)

I do find it odd that you say this yet on the page previous you post this...

Poch is not the arbiter on how good they are, plenty of experienced youth watchers have answered that question for you.

And Kane says Hi - now viewed as potentially one of the top PL strikers. Written off by many less than 18 months agp

Poch is merely the arbiter on how much the Spurs youth play - and so far in his 2 seasons, that is not a good record.

His record at Southampton is irrelevant to Spurs now - it was only relevant to show we should expect him to bring through players. However as has been demonstrated, at Spurs his record to date is NOT good .

For the record I agree with your first post in that the way he operated elsewhere is now completely irrelevant. It is not possible to compare the two roles he has done because the players he has had at his disposal are a different quality imo. There may well have been quite a few Spurs youngsters given opportunities at Southampton because the players they were looking to replace were of a lower quality. Neither Barca or Fergies Yanited managed to have a steady stream of youth making it through every season, and it is fairly unrealistic to think that will happen with us. As a seasoned youth watcher you must know regardless of the facilities and youth program there will be years that we produce a better crop than others, and just because a player does well at U21 it does not mean they will be able to make the step up. Many do not make it despite shining at the youth level.

I am not saying we don't have some very talented kids in the ranks, but we also have the ability to buy some of the very best the world has to offer as well. I remember having a lengthy discussion earlier on in the season with some of you(regular youth team watchers) where they were trying to tell me Onomah was just as good as Alli he just hadn't played as many games. Well those that see him in training regularly will tell you that is just horseshit! As I posted at the start of the season, our senior pro's were amazed at just how good he was for his age, and he was head and shoulders above other players his own age. As I say you can watch as many youth team games as you like but those that see the day to day have a far better idea of just how good our kids are. That's why I have a grand in the old skyrocket for a mere £10 stake, and Onomah has played very few games at all. I am not saying your opinions count for nothing, far from it and I love hearing some of you guy's posts about what is going on, but as I say you don't see enough to really know just who will make it and who won't. It is not just about what they do on the pitch on match days!!!
Personally I think we will seat least 2 of our current bunch of U21's become very important players for us but when and how we choose to bring them through should be should be done on an individual basis only when Poch thinks it's right, be it this season or two years time after a couple of loan spells etc.

 

[Trix]

I think this is a bit of a hackneyed cliche trix. We haven't just seen Pritchard play for the U21's,we have watched him scrap it out and excel at in League 1 and the championship. Don't tell me that kid hadn'tt displayed the ability - and character - to be worth a place on our bench or cup starts. If The highly rated players (and this is a general consensus - not just an internal one) from our academy are not going to get chances in the various cup competitions and judiciously chosen EPL minutes from the bench etc, then we may as well close down the academy and just trade in players.

At some point that player has to make the leap from development games, training with the first team to actually playing for the first team. That's what Sporting did with Dier, that's what Lyon did with NJie, Ajax did with Eriksen, Lamela was playing for Roma aged 19. At some point we have to take that leap of faith too. They won't all work out, but it's rarely the catastrophic gamble it's painted out to be.




That is so wrong in so many ways. You don't think the expectation is so much higher at ManU ? They are one of the biggest 4 clubs in the world, they are expected to compete for the league and CL every season, they have spent nearly 300m on signings in the last couple of years, the pressure LVG is under to achieve results dwarfs the pressure Pochettino is under.

Pochettino's philosophy is geared toward young legs and malleable young brains. We have an academy that was playing a brand of football more in tune to Pochettino's philosophy way before he got here and he's now overseeing that too. He should be more worried about how a purchase with upset the harmony that a kid already indoctrinated into his methodology.

And if you look at the evidence this is born out. If you compare how the academy players have performed with those bought in the last few years they invariably have rarely let us down, whereas many of the purchases have been far more unreliable or hit and miss.

They won't all be roaring successes, or be Harry Kane's but they have all at least been indoctrinated into the right tactical system, have the right attitude and awareness of the collective ethos.

Or you move them on mate, they won't all make it with us. No matter how much you want them to. I understand you guys have an emotional attachment to some of these lads because you have invested time into them, but the fact is it won't always be in the best interests of the team to promote them all, when/if we can do better externally. Remember Poch has very strict guidelines in what he wants in his players both mentally and physically, it may just be a case they just don't fit with what he wants

 

[The Scarecrow]

That is so wrong in so many ways. You don't think the expectation is so much higher at ManU ? They are one of the biggest 4 clubs in the world, they are expected to compete for the league and CL every season, they have spent nearly 300m on signings in the last couple of years, the pressure LVG is under to achieve results dwarfs the pressure Pochettino is under.

Pochettino's philosophy is geared toward young legs and malleable young brains. We have an academy that was playing a brand of football more in tune to Pochettino's philosophy way before he got here and he's now overseeing that too. He should be more worried about how a purchase with upset the harmony that a kid already indoctrinated into his methodology.

And if you look at the evidence this is born out. If you compare how the academy players have performed with those bought in the last few years they invariably have rarely let us down, whereas many of the purchases have been far more unreliable or hit and miss.

They won't all be roaring successes, or be Harry Kane's but they have all at least been indoctrinated into the right tactical system, have the right attitude and awareness of the collective ethos.

My point was this: Van Gaal is playing so many youngsters because his regulars aren't performing. Pochettino is playing youngsters to a lesser extent because his regulars are performing so well.

Given how we're currently playing, I'd argue that Pochettino has found the perfect balance.

 

[newbie]

Sounds good.

However the number of academy players Poch gave opportunities to at Southampton (in less time than he';s spent at Spurs) is far greater than the number of opportunities given to Spurs youngsters - and the general level of the Spurs academy player is higher than that at Southampton.

So we should be hopeful that he'll do more next season on that comparison.....as the number of opportunities that have actually been given at Spurs (listed in a post yesterday) is too low to sustain a viable academy strategy

Worth recapping - I'm giving Poch top marks for 'polishing' youngsters with experience (Dier, Alli, Kane and others), but less flattering marks for bringing youngsters through fir the first time from youth team to first team (a subtle distinction for some SC'ers I know)

Not wishing to state the obvious.

I think poch has a plan, his slowly prepping players to come in.

It's a strange season we have massively over achieved, plus I think our squad still needs a bit of a trim, injuries have been low I think these are factors, plus you can't beat a good injury crisis to blood youngsters.

Southampton were in a very different situation, there first team was pretty wank compared to what we have. Personally I think he is integrating players and next season we will see more of our youth. Poch would not spend so much time talking to john mc if he didn't have a plan to intergrate.

 

[Trix]

Double post

 

[spursfan77]

Not us but solanke wants £50k a week to sign a new contract at Chelsea. Must be a wind up surely?

(Apparently he's been awful in Holland this season too).

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Or you move them on mate, they won't all make it with us. No matter how much you want them to. I understand you guys have an emotional attachment to some of these lads because you have invested time into them, but the fact is it won't always be in the best interests of the team to promote them all, when/if we can do better externally. Remember Poch has very strict guidelines in what he wants in his players both mentally and physically, it may just be a case they just don't fit with what he wants

Again, I think this is more hackneyed cliche stuff. It's not about emotion attachment, it's about cold hard logic. We are buying players like Dier and Njie with a handful of games on the clock when we have very talented kids here that could also prove to be at least as competent if they are just given those few games.

If I don't rate an academy kid I'll say so, as I have in the last couple of pages of this thread. None of us believe every (or even many) academy kid will or should make it to the first team, become a regular, not even close.

The academy ethos here is actually a pretty symbiotic match to Pochettino's. So giving the best development graduates some game time really isn't some huge throw of the dice, more of a logical final phase of development before deciding whether we need to spend 10m on the likes of NJie or 15m on the likes of Boufal.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Again, I think this is more hackneyed cliche stuff. It's not about emotion attachment, it's about cold hard logic. We are buying players like Dier and Njie with a handful of games on the clock when we have very talented kids here that could also prove to be at least as competent if they are just given those few games.

If I don't rate an academy kid I'll say so, as I have in the last couple of pages of this thread. None of us believe every (or even many) academy kid will or should make it to the first team, become a regular, not even close.

The academy ethos here is actually a pretty symbiotic match to Pochettino's. So giving the best development graduates some game time really isn't some huge throw of the dice, more of a logical final phase of development before deciding whether we need to spend 10m on the likes of NJie or 15m on the likes of Boufal.

You used Dier in your argument? Fucking hell.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You used Dier in your argument? Fucking hell.

The point being look what can happen when you give the best academy players game time. Dier is a great example of that.