Stick with Ramos. Or...

[coldasice199]

we can't get relegated. It would be too disasterous. I think Ramos would walk around xmas if we were in that predicament anyway. Too much media attention. There already gunning for his head, so Imagine we lose the next four games. If we do, he'll be gone. I'm sure of that. Either from walking away citing media pressure, loss of the dressing room, or ultimately fired. Thats the reality I'm afraid.

 

[eddiebailey]

Who would we get in? Don't really understand what you would be hoping to achieve by sackin ramos and appointing Allen??

Survival?

As long as there si a prospect of him turning it around I would prefer to stick with Ramos. I mentioned Allen only as a preferable replacement to Poyet.

But Allen is a capable coach who understands English football. One thing I am sure off is that there is no way he would tolerate the lack of closing down and lack of movement we have seen in recent games.

 

[Michey]

I expect Ramos will have until January to prove himself.

To who?? Hysterical fans without contact with reality, media?

And what shall he prove? That the directors can sell his best players and that he still can get results.

A monkey could understand that the team will struggle without Keane and Berbatov.....a stupid monkey that is...

But Allen is a capable coach who understands English football.

It isn't especially english anymore......championship and below there you have the english football.

 

[eddiebailey]

A monkey could understand that the team will struggle without Keane and Berbatov.....a stupid monkey that is...

You keep repeating this. I refer you to the dozens of posts answering it.

 

[Michey]

You keep repeating this. I refer you to the dozens of posts answering it.

...and still people behave hysterical and with no idea what really happens...

Weird....ain't it...

 

[SpurSince57]

Given that we were struggling with them, it's hardly a surprise that we're going to struggle without them, is it?

 

[Michey]

Given that we were struggling with them, it's hardly a surprise that we're going to struggle without them, is it?

No, not at all

But as i recall even they players said that they got comfortable after winning the cup last year.....that probaly made a huge difference.

Struggling or not....they scored 48(!) goals last season

 

[eddiebailey]

...and still people behave hysterical and with no idea what really happens...

Weird....ain't it...

Whereas you of course have the inside track...

You were more vocal than anyone else in this forum in calling for Jol to be replaced by Ramos. Now Ramos has been appointed and is struggling, you are desperate to find excuses for him, in order not to look like a tit. Yet the more you continue to slag Jol while uncritically backing Ramos, the more of a tit you look.

 

[coldasice199]

Were we always just over reliant on those two players? The first time we finished 5th, there was no Berbatov. Maybe selling a link up player like Mido was a mistake.

My point is this. We can't keep on losing. Ramos will be forced out if we do. Like I said above, the media already have him lined up in their sites. If we dont win the majority of our next four games, then they will perform a coup de grade. That or the fans will, by singing Ramos out (can't imagine that? I can).

We can't get relegated and this team has more quality in it than to be bottom of the league. A new manager adds injection and bite, players fight for their places at the club. Look what happened in the immediate few months of Ramos taking over.

I like Ramos and whats been said about him, but I'll be real here for a second. Barring Sevilla (where he was amazing!!!!worth noting) he has had a lot of clubs with relatively few successes. He is also coaching in a foreign tongue in a country with a different playing style and culture.

His record for us in the league is frankly, very poor. I think it ranks somewhere near Gross. That doesn't tell the whole story, but I don't think anywhere you can say Ramos is blameless for the position we find ourselfs in.

 

[Michey]

Whereas you of course have the inside track...

You were more vocal than anyone else in this forum in calling for Jol to be replaced by Ramos. Now Ramos has been appointed and is struggling, you are desperate to find excuses for him, in order not to look like a tit. Yet the more you continue to slag Jol while uncritically backing Ramos, the more of a tit you look.

Yes, i thought it could be a good idea with Ramos as a new manager and still does.

Isn't obvious what has happened with the balance in our team. You don't need no "inside track" for that. Do you? :think:
I really don't know how to make it easier to understand......numbers, counting fruits??

And where did the slagging of Jol happen......when backing Ramos? You're not tasting the strong stuff during these early hours...are you

 

[mil1lion]

To who?? Hysterical fans without contact with reality, media?

And what shall he prove? That the directors can sell his best players and that he still can get results.

A monkey could understand that the team will struggle without Keane and Berbatov.....a stupid monkey that is...

To Daniel Levy. Thats what i would expect. If we're still in the same sort of position come the new year, then i think there is every chance that a new manager comes in and has the January window to bring in a couple of players. I hope that doesn't happen, and dont think it will actually happen either. But i personally think that Ramos will have until January to turn things around. Not necessarily be in a great position, but be out of the bottom 5.

And i would pobably say those two you mention too. The fans will definately lose patience in a matter of time unless we start performing and winning games. But it would probably be the Christmas period where the fans would truly judge Ramos. If we're still in the bottom 3, then i expect the fans to call for the heads of Ramos and Comolli. And the media will not let go until we're in a safe position either. They're already on our backs, and they're already talking about Comolli getting the sack. Another month like this last one, and they will be all over the 'Sack Ramos' campaign. And they'll probably enjoy doing so.

What shall he prove? Prove that theres life after Berbatov and Keane for one. They've gone, and they aint coming back. And although we can expect a new striker or two in January, he will still have to have his team playing well by then. He'll have to prove that his new team can compete and show signs that we're moving forward from last season. And he'll have to prove that he can turn things around when their not going his way.

Theres no doubting the loss of Berbatov and Keane, but they were one of the best, if not the best, striker partnership in the Premier League. We were lucky to have a striker partnership of that quality without Champions League football in the last 2 years. But we dont have worse strikers than anyone else in the bottom half of the League. We've still got enough quality up front to be at least midtable.

 

[SpurSince57]

No, not at all

But as i recall even they players said that they got comfortable after winning the cup last year.....that probaly made a huge difference.

Struggling or not....they scored 48(!) goals last season

Nothing about getting comfortable before winning the cup, though. We'd got ourselves up to 11th by Christmas and if we'd continued the form of Ramos' first nine games we would have had a real chance of getting up to fifth or sixth. We didn't, despite shoring up the defence with Woody and Hutton.

We only beat two sides that were actually any good last season, and made a real meal of seeing off some of the relegation candidates.

Losing Berbatov and Keane is only a part of the reason—a major part, admittedly, but only a part. Some people seem to believe that Ramos has had this summer's signings foisted on him by Doctor Evil. That's cock. If the balance of the side is wrong, he has to take some responsibility, because these are players he wanted. The CMs are still passing the ball from side to side. The only difference is that there's no final ball back to Robbo to hoof up to Berbatov once the opposition have got ten men behind the ball.

 

[Azrael]

To Daniel Levy. Thats what i would expect. If we're still in the same sort of position come the new year, then i think there is every chance that a new manager comes in and has the January window to bring in a couple of players. I hope that doesn't happen, and dont think it will actually happen either. But i personally think that Ramos will have until January to turn things around. Not necessarily be in a great position, but be out of the bottom 5.

And i would pobably say those two you mention too. The fans will definately lose patience in a matter of time unless we start performing and winning games. But it would probably be the Christmas period where the fans would truly judge Ramos. If we're still in the bottom 3, then i expect the fans to call for the heads of Ramos and Comolli. And the media will not let go until we're in a safe position either. They're already on our backs, and they're already talking about Comolli getting the sack. Another month like this last one, and they will be all over the 'Sack Ramos' campaign. And they'll probably enjoy doing so.

What shall he prove? Prove that theres life after Berbatov and Keane for one. They've gone, and they aint coming back. And although we can expect a new striker or two in January, he will still have to have his team playing well by then. He'll have to prove that his new team can compete and show signs that we're moving forward from last season. And he'll have to prove that he can turn things around when their not going his way.

Theres no doubting the loss of Berbatov and Keane, but they were one of the best, if not the best, striker partnership in the Premier League. We were lucky to have a striker partnership of that quality without Champions League football in the last 2 years. But we dont have worse strikers than anyone else in the bottom half of the League. We've still got enough quality up front to be at least midtable.

Just a quite point to make to all those who say we can give Juande a chance and wait until January.....if we are still in the bottom 3 by January the chances of us being able to attract Arshavin back, let alone any other decent players, will be seriously harmed.

 

[Banjo]

Seems maybe it comes down to a simple choice.

Do you look at our position in the table; our crumbling morale; our clueless team selection; decide it's all Ramos fault and kick him out ? This means history will repeat itself for the umpteenth time - a new manager arrives in the autumn and spends the season building a new team/trying to keep us afloat. (And who will succeed where all the others have failed ?)

or

Grit our teeth. Accept Ramos is absolutely the real deal and even if we get relegated, he's the one who will - given a chance - ultimately pull things round ? (After all, even Fergie took a few seasons to get going at Utd).

Personally, I genuinely don't know. The endless manager changing has achieved nothing (OK - a CC) - but nothing I've seen so far with Ramos gives me any real encouragement. But I do think the Board panicked at the start of last season and were too quick to dump Jol.

Pretty much agree. But note well that Spurs won a league cup in '99 and in 2001 were through to a semi-final of that competition, under the same manager - Graham.

Levy arrived in Febuary 01. Within a month had sacked a relatively successful manager, in Graham, and has since instituted the DoF system. He has appointed as head coach, Hoddle, Pleat (acting), Santini, Jol and Ramos in these seven years. As DoF he has appointed Pleat, Arnesen and DC as DoF. None of the senior coaching staff have stayed more than 2 to 2 and a half years. We have, as a result had a 'revolving door' in terms of player staff? Over 40 first team players have been signed in the last 4 years; I believe! Bar Lennon, Dawson and the sadly injured King none of the other members of first team squad at the club have been at WHL for more than two years.

I believe that this constant chopping and changing is one of the underlying factors for our under-achieving over the last few years. We have had good players and damn near got into the CL league.

However, there has been one constant factor in these years. Daniel Levy. He has been in charge for nearly eight years, been a serial sacker, achieved far less than his own stated goals (CL football) and kept on shifting the blame on to one scapegoat after another. He will try this again, with Comolli being the favourite to go. But I reckon it's time Levy fell on his own sword.

I'm sick of the apologies for Levy. He's been getting just short of a million pounds a year for nearly eight years to deliver mg: one CC cup, a squad with the same old problems and gaps and a position at the bottom of the EPL, the only side in the league, without a league win! (On average Spurs win a cup/competition every eight years!)

Perhaps we might leave off Ramos for a while?

 

[striebs]

Pretty much agree. But note well that Spurs won a league cup in '99 and in 2001 were through to a semi-final of that competition, under the same manager - Graham.

Levy arrived in Febuary 01. Within a month had sacked a relatively successful manager, in Graham, and has since instituted the DoF system. He has appointed as head coach, Hoddle, Pleat (acting), Santini, Jol and Ramos in these seven years. As DoF he has appointed Pleat, Arnesen and DC as DoF. None of the senior coaching staff have stayed more than 2 to 2 and a half years. We have, as a result had a 'revolving door' in terms of player staff? Over 40 first team players have been signed in the last 4 years; I believe! Bar Lennon, Dawson and the sadly injured King none of the other members of first team squad at the club have been at WHL for more than two years.

I believe that this constant chopping and changing is one of the underlying factors for our under-achieving over the last few years. We have had good players and damn near got into the CL league.

However, there has been one constant factor in these years. Daniel Levy. He has been in charge for nearly eight years, been a serial sacker, achieved far less than his own stated goals (CL football) and kept on shifting the blame on to one scapegoat after another. He will try this again, with Comolli being the favourite to go. But I reckon it's time Levy fell on his own sword.

I'm sick of the apologies for Levy. He's been getting just short of a million pounds a year for nearly eight years to deliver mg: one CC cup, a squad with the same old problems and gaps and a position at the bottom of the EPL, the only side in the league, without a league win! (On average Spurs win a cup/competition every eight years!)

Perhaps we might leave off Ramos for a while?

Here here .

Yes Ramos must have had input into signings but was entitled to expect that Levy would have completed the job before the window closed .

The failure permeates from the top down .

Like him or loathe him , Levy just isn't good enough and his uncle should put someone in charge who is up to the job , like David Dein .

 

[piedpiper]

Whereas you of course have the inside track...

You were more vocal than anyone else in this forum in calling for Jol to be replaced by Ramos. Now Ramos has been appointed and is struggling, you are desperate to find excuses for him, in order not to look like a tit. Yet the more you continue to slag Jol while uncritically backing Ramos, the more of a tit you look.[/quote]

I second that. :hump:

 

[AngerManagement]

Stick or Twist hey?

I suggest we stick as we have a winning hand, and our previous record with twisting suggests we are likely to bust if we do so

 

[Banjo]

Stick or Twist hey?

I suggest we stick as we have a winning hand, and our previous record with twisting suggests we are likely to bust if we do so

I'm not sure that Spurs have a winning hand - and I feel that all the 'twisting' has been by Levy.

Nevertheless, I would stick. Having repeatedly made the same mistake - twisting - we should not repeat it.

But I also believe that Levy's position really is becoming untenable. If he should twist again like he did last summer - well then he's nothing more nor less than Chubby Checker!

:razz:

 

[southcalispur]

Ramos cannot be in charge if we are still in the bottom three come christmas. He has 4 games and that is fair. All games are winnable and anything less than 2 victories will be unacceptable. Ramos has had a year and 70 mill to play with. I still believe he can turn it round but he has to perform now!

Possible Managers to replace Ramos if he is sacked:
Keane
Frank R
Harry R
Martin J

 

[Bulletspur]

Yes, the kick Levy out brigade have come out their holes. Levy the one who has continously put his money where his heart is, and wants only the best for us! If the results were the way that we wanted and expected, wonder if we would be hearing this crap.

I am not saying that I agree with everything Levy has done, but be careful what you wish for.