Team vs. Arsenal(H)

[thfc1989]

From Coulbally's(SP?) twitter, not sure if it's actually him. If it is, nice to see him getting in the spirit.

"Sunday is #nld lets destroy scum #coys spurshavethebestfans"

it's obviously not him

 

[Spurger King]

My preferred team:

Hellboy​

Walker - King - Kaboul - Disco​

Parker - Sandro​

Vdv - Modric - Bale​

Adebayor​

Harsh on Defoe but VdV will be up for this and I'm not sure I feel confident enough to go Parker Modric against the Goons. Someone needs to keep Arteta quiet.​

Bring Defoe on for VdV and go 4-4-2 with Bale left and Modric right if need be.​

My choice too. Defoe would be a good option to come off the bench if we're struggling. It is harsh as he's started the season pretty well, but I want to see VDV start, and wouldn't drop Parker or Sandro either, so there isn't really any other choice. I don't consider replacing BAE with Bale to be a realistic alternative.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I think all the posts quoted above show a fundamental misunderstanding of the 4-2-3-1 formation.

According to them the 4-2-3-1 is primarily a defensive set-up and therefore should usually be used against tougher opposition, whereas 4-4-2 is more attacking and therefore should be used against weaker opponents where we can afford to simply go for it and score goals.

As I say I think this is a complete misunderstanding.

Attacking football comes on the back of dominating opponents, it is about keeping the ball, preferably in their half, not letting them keep the ball and leaving their morale low and our own high. From that platform all the clever movement, the incisive passing, the chances and the goals flow.

4-3-2-1 is about stifling your opponents creativity so you can unleash your own. For it to work however you need DMs who are also useful on the ball, a striker who cannot only hold the ball up but is lethal in front of goal and an AM three of vision, skill and verve.

4-4-2 on the other hand is a less certain platform, it's for teams who are unable to control games through their skill and ability, it's what you play whe you've got a good punch but a weakish defence. Play it and the other team will always have a sniff. Play it against a better side and sometimes you'll end up dominated, play it against a weaker side and there are liable to sit back, try absorb when you have the ball and take a breather and feel more comfortable when they have the ball. They will also get good opportunities to hit back on the break, just as 4-4-2 lends itself to the better team also scoring on the break.

For me 4-4-2 is a sign of weakness, its what you play we you haven't the players to make a 4-2-3-1 type set-up work. If you want to play really attacking football, if you want the chance to knock up good scores and totally dominate your opponent you play 4-2-3-1.

I'm certain Harry realises this and that we'll set up exactly as DA has us below.

PS - about a third of the way through re-watching the Wigan match and contrary to what I thought at the time I think we were playing 4-2-3-1 rather than 4-4-1-1; I would prefer to see Modric in the centre of the AM 3 however and VdV more on the right.

this Modric came into a central area with and without the ball more ofter than not. When we attacked their box Bale was pretty much moving into the same positions as a striker would take up. This proved to me that their was great fluidity amongst the front 4.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Same team as Wigan. Gives us fluidity upfront to trouble their flakey defence and gives us good cover in midfield to counter their dangerous attackers.

I think Walker v Corluka is the only decision to make. I'd go with Walker just to give us an extra attacking element to worry them with.

 

[RJ1882]

Our strongest 11 picks itself. complimented by Defoe and Lennon from the bench if needed. Bassong / Corluka / Rose adding defensive cover, Livermore probably our only other fit CM and Cudicini completes the bench.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Gomes
Walker Kaboul King Ekotto
Sandro Parker
VDV Modric Bale
Adebayor​

I don't really care whether it's called a 4411, 451, 433 or 4231, those are the players I want to see.​

 

[Hugh DeMann]

We need to set ourselves out attacking and go for the jugular from the whistle. With their shaky confidence, an early goal could really sap their motivation.

 

[$hoguN]

Friedel

Walker King Kaboul Assou-Ekotto

Sandro Parker

Modric Van der Vaart Bale

Adebayor​

Subs: Gomes, Corluka, Rose, Townsend (or Krancjar if fit), Dos Santos, Lennon, Defoe

 

[DJS]

Friedel

Corkula Kaboul King Assou-Ekotto

Lennon Parker Modric Bale

van der Vaart

Adebayor


Subs: Cudicini, Walker, Bassong, Dos Santos, Krancjar, Sandro, Defoe

 

[chinaman]

I think BBLG's and $hogun"s line-up should be starting. The likes of Ade, Bale, DVD and Modric will be enough to bring in 2 to 3 goals while 2 DMs will ensure there will not be a sucker punch by them.

 

[ShelfSide18]

I think all the posts quoted above show a fundamental misunderstanding of the 4-2-3-1 formation.

According to them the 4-2-3-1 is primarily a defensive set-up and therefore should usually be used against tougher opposition, whereas 4-4-2 is more attacking and therefore should be used against weaker opponents where we can afford to simply go for it and score goals.

As I say I think this is a complete misunderstanding.

Attacking football comes on the back of dominating opponents, it is about keeping the ball, preferably in their half, not letting them keep the ball and leaving their morale low and our own high. From that platform all the clever movement, the incisive passing, the chances and the goals flow.

4-3-2-1 is about stifling your opponents creativity so you can unleash your own. For it to work however you need DMs who are also useful on the ball, a striker who cannot only hold the ball up but is lethal in front of goal and an AM three of vision, skill and verve.

4-4-2 on the other hand is a less certain platform, it's for teams who are unable to control games through their skill and ability, it's what you play whe you've got a good punch but a weakish defence. Play it and the other team will always have a sniff. Play it against a better side and sometimes you'll end up dominated, play it against a weaker side and there are liable to sit back, try absorb when you have the ball and take a breather and feel more comfortable when they have the ball. They will also get good opportunities to hit back on the break, just as 4-4-2 lends itself to the better team also scoring on the break.

For me 4-4-2 is a sign of weakness, its what you play we you haven't the players to make a 4-2-3-1 type set-up work. If you want to play really attacking football, if you want the chance to knock up good scores and totally dominate your opponent you play 4-2-3-1.

I'm certain Harry realises this and that we'll set up exactly as DA has us below.

PS - about a third of the way through re-watching the Wigan match and contrary to what I thought at the time I think we were playing 4-2-3-1 rather than 4-4-1-1; I would prefer to see Modric in the centre of the AM 3 however and VdV more on the right.

Excellent post, just because 4-4-2 includes 2 forwards doesn't mean it is any more attacking, formations are essentially neutral - it is how they are applied on the pitch.

The 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 allows us to control possession, just because Sandro and Parker are partnered together doesn't mean we are 'defensive', in fact the more they win possession of the ball the more time Modric/VDV/Bale/Ade gets on the ball. Give them 40% of the ball and they'll be dangerous, give them 60% then you're laughing - there must be few better attacking units in world football than Adebayor/Modric/VDV/Bale/Lennon/Kranjcar - Give them a platform then we'll be hearing those sweet Champions League tones at WHL very soon.

Friedel
Walker King Kaboul Ekotto
Parker Sandro
Modric
**VDV******Bale
Adebayor​

First off I would say I would have Gomes as no1, but it's obvious Brad is Harry's No1. Secondly there is a lot of debate about VDV and Modric and who should play from the wider area - I'm happy for Rafa to come from the right hand side - you only have to remember his goal against them last year to show he can be effective in the right inside forward slot, he's just not a right winger. Walker needs to bomb up the wing at will beyond Arshavin/Gervinho and occupy their left flank by being aggressive and proactive. If he sits back and tries to defend Arshavin/Gervinho then he'll get found out. He did this well against Liverpool with Suarez and Enrique, hopefully he does the same again.

2-0 Spurs, Adebayor brace.

 

[felmani26]

Sloth,

If you've read my previous posts then you'll find i'm not a staunch supporter of 442 and certainly not in the guise we've been accustomed to in recent times with Bale and Lennon wide and Modric plus one in the centre as it not only makes us predictable but also, very exposed centrally.

I've championed the 4231 as it plays to our strengths in terms of personnel, whilst making us very hard to break down when we are not in possession and this is why it should be adopted against the other top 5 teams in the league and generally away from home this year. This isn't just to stifle the opposition as it should enable us a fair amount of possession even away from home and a solid platform for us to base our attacks upon.

You argue the case against 442 but if Harry picks the right team, which he did against Liverpool, then it's still a viable formation for us and one which can still yield effective results.

 

[spurslenny]

All about who dominates the midfield for me, so I would go with..


------------------hellboy------------------

Walker-----Kaboul------king---------disco

VDV------Parker-------modric--------bale

----------JD----------Adebayor------------

Subs: Cuddly, Bassong, Sandro, Townsend, Pav, Gio, Lennon.



Arsenal are likely to play...

-----------------chesney-------------------

Sagna------Mertesaker---Song----santos

-------------frimpong-----arteta-----------

Walcot----------Ramsey-----------Rosicky

------------------RVP----------------------


Doubts over Walcott, gervinho, and koscelney and schillaci are ruled out.



It's all about us.

 

[ShelfSide18]

All about who dominates the midfield for me, so I would go with..


------------------hellboy------------------

Walker-----Kaboul------king---------disco

VDV------Parker-------modric--------bale

----------JD----------Adebayor------------

Subs: Cuddly, Bassong, Sandro, Townsend, Pav, Gio, Lennon.



Arsenal are likely to play...

-----------------chesney-------------------

Sagna------Mertesaker---Song----santos

-------------frimpong-----arteta-----------

Walcot----------Ramsey-----------Rosicky

------------------RVP----------------------


Doubts over Walcott, gervinho, and koscelney and schillaci are ruled out.



It's all about us.

So you say it's about who dominates the midfield, which is correct (doesn't this apply to all football games!) then you suggest we play 2 CMs up against their 3, and one of those is not a ballwinner?

 

[talkshowhost86]

All about who dominates the midfield for me, so I would go with..


------------------hellboy------------------

Walker-----Kaboul------king---------disco

VDV------Parker-------modric--------bale

----------JD----------Adebayor------------

Subs: Cuddly, Bassong, Sandro, Townsend, Pav, Gio, Lennon.



Arsenal are likely to play...

-----------------chesney-------------------

Sagna------Mertesaker---Song----santos

-------------frimpong-----arteta-----------

Walcot----------Ramsey-----------Rosicky

------------------RVP----------------------


Doubts over Walcott, gervinho, and koscelney and schillaci are ruled out.



It's all about us.

If it's about dominating the midfield (which I agree with) shouldn't we be matching them up rather than playing with one man less than them in there?

Sandro is tailor made for a game like this. He has to play IMO.

 

[yusrisafri]

I think Parker and Sandro should both play as anchors, thus allowing Walker to bombard forward, whihc subsequently means that there is no requirement for a RM. So with that in place, I'd play

......................Grandpa........................
Walker......Kaboul.........King............Snoop
...............Parker.......Sandro..................
......................Modric.....................Bale
...............Ade..........Defoe....................

VDV wont be happy defintiely but he needs to realise that his place in the team is not guaranteed, and it is a team game, and he should not be a primadonna about it....

 

[sloth]

Anyone know where you can get team by team pass completion stats for the season to date?

Sloth,

If you've read my previous posts then you'll find i'm not a staunch supporter of 442 and certainly not in the guise we've been accustomed to in recent times with Bale and Lennon wide and Modric plus one in the centre as it not only makes us predictable but also, very exposed centrally.

I've championed the 4231 as it plays to our strengths in terms of personnel, whilst making us very hard to break down when we are not in possession and this is why it should be adopted against the other top 5 teams in the league and generally away from home this year. This isn't just to stifle the opposition as it should enable us a fair amount of possession even away from home and a solid platform for us to base our attacks upon.

You argue the case against 442 but if Harry picks the right team, which he did against Liverpool, then it's still a viable formation for us and one which can still yield effective results.

[Edit] Just re-read your post so changed mine...

In the posts I quoted previously the general theme seemed to be that 4-2-3-1 is a less attacking formation than 4-4-2. It is more defensive than 4-4-2. Therefore people seem to want to play it against stronger opponents, but feel that against weaker opponents 4-4-2 offers a better chance of scoring and therefore presumably winning.

I'm saying that I think this is a misunderstanding on their part. I think with players of the quality and type we have, 4-2-3-1 is more attacking than 4-4-2, in fact I think 4-2-3-1 will result not only in fewer goals conceded, but in more goals scored and therefore more victories.

Crucially I think this argument applies as much (if not more) for matches against weaker opponents as it does for matches against stronger ones.

Do you think the same? or do you think 4-4-2 is better for weaker opponents? If so, why?

None of which says 4-4-2 is not also a viable system with the players we have, but that it is the less preferable one. As the season progresses we may wish to rest Sandro or Parker, we may get injuries to one of them or Adebayor or VdV and if/when this happens there may be a stronger case for 4-4-2, but as long as we have the personnel available that we do for this match then 4-2-3-1 should be the formation we play against every opponent.

 

[gregga]

I think Parker and Sandro should both play as anchors, thus allowing Walker to bombard forward, whihc subsequently means that there is no requirement for a RM. So with that in place, I'd play

......................Grandpa........................
Walker......Kaboul.........King............Snoop
...............Parker.......Sandro..................
......................Modric.....................Bale
...............Ade..........Defoe....................

VDV wont be happy defintiely but he needs to realise that his place in the team is not guaranteed, and it is a team game, and he should not be a primadonna about it....

I don't think he should be guaranteed a place in the team but VdV was outstanding in last year's NLDs and I think he will have a big part to play tomorrow.

 

[felmani26]

Anyone know where you can get team by team pass completion stats for the season to date?



[Edit] Just re-read your post so changed mine...

In the posts I quoted previously the general theme seemed to be that 4-2-3-1 is a less attacking formation than 4-4-2. It is more defensive than 4-4-2. Therefore people seem to want to play it against stronger opponents, but feel that against weaker opponents 4-4-2 offers a better chance of scoring and therefore presumably winning.

I'm saying that I think this is a misunderstanding on their part. I think with players of the quality and type we have, 4-2-3-1 is more attacking than 4-4-2, in fact I think 4-2-3-1 will result not only in fewer goals conceded, but in more goals scored and therefore more victories.

Crucially I think this argument applies as much (if not more) for matches against weaker opponents as it does for matches against stronger ones.

Do you think the same? or do you think 4-4-2 is better for weaker opponents? If so, why?

None of which says 4-4-2 is not also a viable system with the players we have, but that it is the less preferable one. As the season progresses we may wish to rest Sandro or Parker, we may get injuries to one of them or Adebayor or VdV and if/when this happens there may be a stronger case for 4-4-2, but as long as we have the personnel available that we do for this match then 4-2-3-1 should be the formation we play against every opponent.

That is a fair enough assessment and whilst i'm not saying 442 will necessarily be the better formation against 'lesser' opponents, invariably, we will need to rotate our squad and as such, players like Defoe, Lennon, Pavlyuchenko et al - typically 442 players who will feel more comfortable playing in that system than 4231.

Bar this, I whole heartedly agree that if and when possible, I would like us to utilise 4231 with the proviso that we can adopt a more direct approach, such as 442, mid-game should circumstances change.

 

[RichSpur58]

Defoe and Lennon on the bench I think.

They would be good to bring on for the last 20 minutes.

The 451 from last week should start. They will suffocate the arse midfield.