The Cricket Thread

[southlondonyiddo]

Wonderful series, ironically lost to the English weather.
England should have won at least one of the first two
but threw the 1st with that awful first day declaration.
Batted too long yesterday especially in view of the weather.

In the main this has been a proper 5 day test series,
some fine bowling and outstanding batting from Root on the first day
to Labuschagne on what turned out to be the last.
Bazball has no place in a five day test, there are plenty of forms of cricket
where Bazball is not only appropriate but required.
It's not cricket but few seem to care
except us old fogies struggling to keep the flame alive in every sense.

 

[JimmyG2]

View attachment 129356 View attachment 129356

Yeah, and that.

 

[PCozzie]

moving on to Thursday. sad to say, but there's no room for Anderson in this side. as long as Woakes and Wood are fit, that will probably be the only change I reckon.

In principle I think you're right, but If he said he was retiring after the fifth test I think England would be pretty much obliged to play him. There's no way his international career ends today at Old Trafford.

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

Excuse the pun, but this should be a watershed moment and a wake up call for test cricket.

It's quite ridiculous that one of the best and most exciting Ashes series for many a year is effectively being decided by two days of rain.

The Ashes and matches between India and Pakistan are the two most intense rivalries in cricket. It is frankly embarrassing to the game and farcical that a match should be decided in this way by chance rather than being decided on merit.

It is high time we introduced reserve days and charged much lesser prices for these reserve days so as to engage and enthrall the next generation so as to make it more accessible to the masses as many parents would bring kids if it was clearly affordable. We know how many overs have been lost to the weather so it should be possible to introduce reserve days.

Yes as an England fan we've benefited from rain giving us a get out of jail card, but this is about much more than that. Making it and keeping it relevant and moving with the times, is more important if it means England lose a few more because rain doesn't save them so be it.

Some may say history is important but let's face it, rain influencing outcomes harks back to a bygone era of W.G Grace and Public School Ties and Goodbye Mr Chips. Not all history is good history either, if that was the barometer women would still be excluded from the MCC and cricketers from working class backgrounds would be playing from their country. Fortunately those elitist and sexist traditions are being removed, albeit not before time and there is still some way to go and we all know that recent reports have highlighted widespread racism which needs to be tackled.

In conclusion, whilst much needs to be changed, introducing reserve days that take the weather out of deciding games, and effectively in this case a series should be consigned to history IMHO.

I've been chuckling at this all evening. Comparing a day being rained off to elitism, sexism and racism - I've heard it all now .

Everyone knew the game was effectively a 3 day game - losing two days was not a surprise. Like @PCozzie said, the tactics and game adjusted accordingly and actually is part of why the game is interesting. England misjudged the tactics IMO and Australia showed some fight yesterday, so I don't have any issues with the draw.

I agree with all the points about doing more to get more play in within the 5 days though. The slow over rate and the close of play in blazing sunshine is painful.

 

[Impspur1]

Wonderful series, ironically lost to the English weather.
England should have won at least one of the first two
but threw the 1st with that awful first day declaration.
Batted too long yesterday especially in view of the weather.

In the main this has been a proper 5 day test series,
some fine bowling and outstanding batting from Root on the first day
to Labuschagne on what turned out to be the last.
Bazball has no place in a five day test, there are plenty of forms of cricket
where Bazball is not only appropriate but required.
It's not cricket but few seem to care
except us old fogies struggling to keep the flame alive in every sense.

Bazball is the reason we’ve had such wonderful series. As you say we could and should have won at least one of the first two, it was poor fielding not bazball or the declaration that cost us. In fact it was the reason we came so close to hammering the reigning world champions

 

[Impspur1]

christ, Glen McGrath doesn't half come out with some utter garbage.

Terrible pundit on TMS

 

[Impspur1]

I think Tongue for Anderson for the oval which is traditionally quick and bouncy. Hit them with more pace

 

[JimmyG2]

Bazball is the reason we’ve had such wonderful series. As you say we could and should have won at least one of the first two, it was poor fielding not bazball or the declaration that cost us. In fact it was the reason we came so close to hammering the reigning world champions

Bazball hardly featured and when it did it threw us off course.
Australia were befuddled by the weather forecast
and England by the Bazball mentality.
There was no Bazball influence on Crawley's fine innings, or on Root most of the time.
It's a useful tactic at the right moment but not as an underlying philosophy.
It's fine as long as entertainment is the main concern and winning is not the priority.

But let's agree to disagree.
I'm out

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think Tongue for Anderson for the oval which is traditionally quick and bouncy. Hit them with more pace

Woakes seems to be a doubt and suggestions by whoever the journo was on the BBC that Broad having played five test already this summer will count against him. If it goes bandy we could have to use a half arsed attack

 

[Impspur1]

Woakes seems to be a doubt and suggestions by whoever the journo was on the BBC that Broad having played five test already this summer will count against him. If it goes bandy we could have to use a half arsed attack

The seam attack have had a nice break and Broad has been able pretty good all through, not sure we will go into a must win without him. I’m assuming they will call up extra bowlers to cover for potential injuries. Would be a shame to not have Woakes though

 

[UncleBuck]

I can’t criticise anything we done in this test, initially I thought we should have declared earlier but the Aussies were due one of their guns to pull out something decent which Labs did.
Putting the runs on the board in the first innings knowing what the weather might have been like was the right thing to do.
Unfortunately it’s just one of them things that happens in test cricket, not sure if I’d want an extended day but play shouldn’t start so late and finish as early as it does though, especially in this country.

 

[1882andallthat]

I've been chuckling at this all evening. Comparing a day being rained off to elitism, sexism and racism - I've heard it all now .

Everyone knew the game was effectively a 3 day game - losing two days was not a surprise. Like @PCozzie said, the tactics and game adjusted accordingly and actually is part of why the game is interesting. England misjudged the tactics IMO and Australia showed some fight yesterday, so I don't have any issues with the draw.

I agree with all the points about doing more to get more play in within the 5 days though. The slow over rate and the close of play in blazing sunshine is painful.

If you interpreted it this way as a comparison that was definitely my intention but I can see why you may have thought this was the case on reading my statement back.

What I meant was that just because historically weather can force a draw in Tests it doesn't make it right and appropriate so I can see why you thought I was making a comparison about history and I concede that it wasn't the best comparison it was simply an attempt to say that just because historically things have happened that way it doesn't make it right .

Yes I get that slow over rates are an issue but starting earlier and a faster over-rate would not have made up for that much of a loss in play. Had this Ashes been so one sided it may not have mattered. It was finely balanced and to have it decided that way because historically that happens doesn't mean things should stay that way. We need to move with the times and find solutions.

Deciding a game this wsy where so much is at stake way is akin to the ref halting the game on 60 minutes because of the weather in an FA Cup Final with Arsenal when we're 2-1 down and saying that's it rain has to stop play, and we can't restart so let's give the cup to Arsenal.

As an England fan I know we've been saved in this way in the past but that too doesn't make it right.

I stand by my assertions that we should re-consider reserve days. I've heard that this was an option with the World Test just a few weeks ago where a 6th day would have been possible with a series of such importance in cricket as the Ashes why not apply it here too.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I remember when the Sunday of a test match was a rest day. Test matches ran from Thursday to Tuesday and that was that. Mind you, that was when a tour was a tour and visiting sides played a county or three before the first test and often times in between tests as well. Obviously that's in the past now but it does make you wonder if at least the 'rest' day of old could have been given up back then and the Tuesday made a reserve day. But that's captain hindsight thinking, the conditions in the game weren't such that it would even have been dreamed of back then.

 

[UncleBuck]

I remember when the Sunday of a test match was a rest day. Test matches ran from Thursday to Tuesday and that was that. Mind you, that was when a tour was a tour and visiting sides played a county or three before the first test and often times in between tests as well. Obviously that's in the past now but it does make you wonder if at least the 'rest' day of old could have been given up back then and the Tuesday made a reserve day. But that's captain hindsight thinking, the conditions in the game weren't such that it would even have been dreamed of back then.

Let’s not forget just how important the hundred is in all of this to the ECB.

 

[UncleBuck]

It was said on here by loads of us ages ago that the ECB had sacrificed the Ashes for their vanity project, well here we are.
Quite a few of us predicted this would happen when they called the dates, the guys on the field have done everything that they can to force results but ultimately as far as I can see it not winning the Ashes back lays solely at the ECB’s schedule.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

As disappointing as it is, England got 30 overs in yesterday (albeit mostly with spin) and should’ve done better than just one wicket.

With that said, Labuschagne batted excellently. I don’t have much time for many of the guys in the Aussie team but I love watching him bat. Seems like a really odd dude off the pitch and it bleeds into his game on it but he’s pure entertainment.

 

[Timbo Tottenham]

Regaining the Ashes may be gone, but the Aussies haven’t won a series over here since 2001 and here’s our chance to stop another generation from doing so. It would be great to stop Smith, Warner and Co from having it on their record.

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

If you interpreted it this way as a comparison that was definitely my intention but I can see why you may have thought this was the case on reading my statement back.

What I meant was that just because historically weather can force a draw in Tests it doesn't make it right and appropriate so I can see why you thought I was making a comparison about history and I concede that it wasn't the best comparison it was simply an attempt to say that just because historically things have happened that way it doesn't make it right .

Yes I get that slow over rates are an issue but starting earlier and a faster over-rate would not have made up for that much of a loss in play. Had this Ashes been so one sided it may not have mattered. It was finely balanced and to have it decided that way because historically that happens doesn't mean things should stay that way. We need to move with the times and find solutions.

Deciding a game this wsy where so much is at stake way is akin to the ref halting the game on 60 minutes because of the weather in an FA Cup Final with Arsenal when we're 2-1 down and saying that's it rain has to stop play, and we can't restart so let's give the cup to Arsenal.

As an England fan I know we've been saved in this way in the past but that too doesn't make it right.

I stand by my assertions that we should re-consider reserve days. I've heard that this was an option with the World Test just a few weeks ago where a 6th day would have been possible with a series of such importance in cricket as the Ashes why not apply it here too.

I know you didn't mean it like that - it just tickled me that those words could even appear in the same paragraph as a day's play being lost to rain.

I think you're underestimating how much the weather forecast factored into how the first 3 days played out. IMO it would be very wrong to assume that we would have murdered the Aussies had there been reserve days to ensure 5 full days play.

Even before a ball was bowled the certainty of a shortened game played into so many things:

1.) TEAM SELECTION: England needed to win so Australia likely assumed we would produce a pitch that would produce a result inside three days. So they picked a team that batted deep and with an extra swing bowler in Marsh. Had 5 days been guaranteed then I think they would have gone with a spinner for a pitch that is traditionally spin friendly on days 4 and 5.

2.) PITCH PREPARATION: The forecast should have factored more into how the pitch was prepared (should have done much more for the bowlers in hindsight). They probably thought their ability to score quickly would speed the game up more than their ability to bowl the Aussies out faster.

3.) THE TOSS: Might England have batted first with 5 days guaranteed? Unlikely but possible knowing Moeen and Root might come more into it on Day 5. I'm sure it would have changed the decision at the toss under Root and Cook's captaincy.

I love all that stuff and it's part of the game. I think England have themselves to blame more than the weather. To be an innings and 61 runs ahead at the end with only 5 wickets to take is ridiculous. Even more so when we were only 9 overs from the new ball. We should have been more aggressive at the end of Day 2 and declared 100 runs ahead which would have given 90 overs guaranteed (and whatever we could get on Days 4 and 5 which turned out to be 30 overs) to bowl them out and knock off whatever lead they had. This is not complaining - I just want to point out that the game isn't flawed by the weather and the opportunity was there to win. Sporting decisions played into the result as much as the weather.

 

[PCozzie]

I remember when the Sunday of a test match was a rest day. Test matches ran from Thursday to Tuesday and that was that. Mind you, that was when a tour was a tour and visiting sides played a county or three before the first test and often times in between tests as well. Obviously that's in the past now but it does make you wonder if at least the 'rest' day of old could have been given up back then and the Tuesday made a reserve day. But that's captain hindsight thinking, the conditions in the game weren't such that it would even have been dreamed of back then.

I was talking to someone about this recently as I was sure I remembered rest days but it seemed like something that would have happened pre-war. Apparantly the last Test match rest day in England was 1996, and the last one worldwide was 2001 in Sri Lanka.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I was talking to someone about this recently as I was sure I remembered rest days but it seemed like something that would have happened pre-war. Apparantly the last Test match rest day in England was 1996, and the last one worldwide was 2001 in Sri Lanka.

I used to hate Sundays for that very reason. Watching a great test match and then on a day when you had full day to watch it, you had some songs of praise rubbish. Wimbledon was the same until much more recently