The Cricket Thread

[LSUY]

Also, i find it hard to believe that there is no one in the County game that can bowl over 82mph for a sustained period. with little seam or swing why have an attack (and squad) full of right arm medium/fast bowlers of varying height?

The only time our bowlers gave the Aussie batsmen the hurry up was when they were late finishing their prawn sandwiches at tea...

Agreed. We have pace in the county game - Jamie Overton, Olly Stone, George Garton and Josh Tongue spring to mind. Tom Barber was clocked bowling at 91mph at Middlesex. Hopefully, this one-sided series will show those in charge that England's attack needs something more than medium-fast bowlers, with the odd bit of spin from Ali.

No idea why we didn't take Plunkett if Wood isn't fit enough to play.

Part of England's problem is the county game doesn't mirror international cricket. Off the top of my head, apart from Taunton, I'm struggling to think of a flat pitch in England (also look at the abuse Somerset gets for having a spinning pitch). The majority of the pitches in England are kinder to seam than pace so it's no surprise we're brilliant at home but struggle when we get to Australia or India.

 

[theShiznit]

Agreed. We have pace in the county game - Jamie Overton, Olly Stone, George Garton and Josh Tongue spring to mind. Tom Barber was clocked bowling at 91mph at Middlesex. Hopefully, this one-sided series will show those in charge that England's attack needs something more than medium-fast bowlers, with the odd bit of spin from Ali.

No idea why we didn't take Plunkett if Wood isn't fit enough to play.

Part of England's problem is the county game doesn't mirror international cricket. Off the top of my head, apart from Taunton, I'm struggling to think of a flat pitch in England (also look at the abuse Somerset gets for having a spinning pitch). The majority of the pitches in England are kinder to seam than pace so it's no surprise we're brilliant at home but struggle when we get to Australia or India.

They always say the county game grinds down fast bowlers until they are medium pace, but is that really an issue or just an excuse? it seems other countries quicks can maintain their pace over the years. Is our now two tier (bought in to stop that grind i believe) game that strenuous above and beyond other countries' equivalent leagues?

Plunkett is a good shout, Wood already seems to have dropped into that sub 85mph category and is no longer being captioned as "Right arm Fast" as he was. But Plunkett seems to have maintained his speed, at around 88mph and can bang it in if it's not doing much.

The only time our bowling attack has looked like getting 20 wickets was in the pink ball (day/night) test. Broad and Anderson have been written off before, and cannot be dismissed for what they have achieved but is it time to move away from them? at least on foreign shores...

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I remember it well ...

That is, I well remember my father talking about it.

I did some business with Freddie Trueman a few years ago and during the evening, we were sat having dinner and I asked him about the Gatting/Shakoor Rana thing. He almost lost the plot Gatting should haver been sacked, shameful etc etc......After that I brought it up every chance I got over the next few years

While I mention it, he asked me how you get 100 ladies to say 'bollocks'.........Get one lady to shout Bingo

And if you want to know the extent of his Yorkshireness, when we sat at the table he looked at the wine menu and complained most strongly at the prices, saying that he could get a bottle of wine for a fiver in the supermarket. Then he asked if we were paying for our own drinks and I told him I'd pay at which point he mentally added up the people who were with us (Four, me, him, another Yorkshire cricket dude and Mrs A&C), jabbed his finger against the most expensive bottle on the menu and said to the waiter that we'd have four bottles of that please

 

[LSUY]

They always say the county game grinds down fast bowlers until they are medium pace, but is that really an issue or just an excuse? it seems other countries quicks can maintain their pace over the years. Is our now two tier (bought in to stop that grind i believe) game that strenuous above and beyond other countries' equivalent leagues?

Plunkett is a good shout, Wood already seems to have dropped into that sub 85mph category and is no longer being captioned as "Right arm Fast" as he was. But Plunkett seems to have maintained his speed, at around 88mph and can bang it in if it's not doing much.

The only time our bowling attack has looked like getting 20 wickets was in the pink ball (day/night) test. Broad and Anderson have been written off before, and cannot be dismissed for what they have achieved but is it time to move away from them? at least on foreign shores...

I think it's a combination of reasons. The season is still too long - iirc a couple of years back Surrey once played 30 days out of 38. The pitches and balls we use suit our current crop of bowlers so it's not a surprise we have a seemingly endless supply of them. Very little thought seems to be put into winning in Australia, India, etc. it's as if the ECB doesn't care what we do overseas as long as we win at home. Also, we coach pace out of them. When Finn first arrived on the scene he was bowling in the 90s but because he was costly England screwed with his action to improve his line and length at the expense of pace.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

16/2 needing 300 to make them bat again

 

[aussiespursguy]

16/2 needing 300 to make them bat again

So your saying theres a chance?

 

[alfie103]

There are too many counties with too much mediorce cricket being played. The counties need to be forced to merge with each other until there about 6 to 8 teams. This means we can:

1. Get rid of mediorce journeymen from the game who are frankly clogging up the game and get the best players playing against each other more which will help them improve.

2. Freeing up the schedule so the workload isn't nearly as demanding which will help players stay fresh and can give it all when they play the games. You would also still have room for T20 and one day tournaments as well.

3. IMO, it will help make the games matter more as they aren't so many which will help with the big game feel and intensity of the match, helping to sort the wheat from the chafe.

I know this won't happen as the counties won't allow it but to be honest, the counties can go f**k themselves. England is the team that matters.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Come on guys be fair, we do look like taking it to the 5th day

 

[Arnoldtoo]

Is there rain in the forecast?

Lots and lots of rain?

 

[Deleted member 27995]

There are too many counties with too much mediorce cricket being played. The counties need to be forced to merge with each other until there about 6 to 8 teams. This means we can:

1. Get rid of mediorce journeymen from the game who are frankly clogging up the game and get the best players playing against each other more which will help them improve.

2. Freeing up the schedule so the workload isn't nearly as demanding which will help players stay fresh and can give it all when they play the games. You would also still have room for T20 and one day tournaments as well.

3. IMO, it will help make the games matter more as they aren't so many which will help with the big game feel and intensity of the match, helping to sort the wheat from the chafe.

I know this won't happen as the counties won't allow it but to be honest, the counties can go f**k themselves. England is the team that matters.

LOL at this rubbish again. You can't streamline something when you have the central contracts in place, those players you want to be playing against one another will still most likely miss most of the year unless the England management see otherwise.

As for the workload It's the Shorter formats of the game that clog it all up.

They book end the the Championship around the 50 and 20 over formats of the game now. You want people to improve then cut the shorter shit out, that or accept that some of the top talent in England would rather play the gravy train cricket than the stuff that requires them to get their heads down and dig in.

Bit like groundhog day by two weeks later ....

As for the cricket ...

Why would you change this England set up going into New Zealand? Perfect litmus test in my opinion for all those who have underperformed in this series. It would be such an England thing to do to make sweeping changes, someone from Lancashire or Surrey (any of the larger counties) comes in, smashes a hundred against a New Zealand attack and is proclaimed to be the next Jack Hobbs.

My onions of course, but the time to make the sweeping changes if they are genuinely needed in the test cricket arena are at the start of our Test Summer.

 

[WorcesterTHFC]

Come on guys be fair, we do look like taking it to the 5th day

Mazel tov to the England team.

 

[Pellshek]

.Part of England's problem is the county game doesn't mirror international cricket. Off the top of my head, apart from Taunton, I'm struggling to think of a flat pitch in England (also look at the abuse Somerset gets for having a spinning pitch). The majority of the pitches in England are kinder to seam than pace so it's no surprise we're brilliant at home but struggle when we get to Australia or India.

The solution to this isn't to make English pitches more like Aussie or India, but to make Aussie and Indian pitches more like England.

This Ashes for me has been the most disappointing sporting event since the Beijing Olympics. Was so looking forward to it, but have hardly enjoyed a single session. Two woefully mismatched teams, horrible flat pitches (the MCG was a disgrace), the soporific Kookaburra ball, impossible viewing hours (though I tried), horrific match presentation by BT, and just a general sense of massive anti-climax. This is how you kill Test cricket. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I've massively knocked the coverage, but to be (reluctantly) fair to BT, Michael Slater hasn't been too bad. I thought Vaughan got slightly better and Boycott is always worth a listen. I get the impression that BT have borrowed a chunk of the BBC TMS team, weren't Vaughan and that Alison Mitchell sort working for them? Swann needs binning, I don't think he's cut out for it.

But overall, give me Sky. I'm pretty sure they have the New Zealand test matches so it'll be nice to slip back into a more comfortable and familiar format.

 

[aussiespursguy]

The solution to this isn't to make English pitches more like Aussie or India, but to make Aussie and Indian pitches more like England.

This Ashes for me has been the most disappointing sporting event since the Beijing Olympics. Was so looking forward to it, but have hardly enjoyed a single session. Two woefully mismatched teams, horrible flat pitches (the MCG was a disgrace), the soporific Kookaburra ball, impossible viewing hours (though I tried), horrific match presentation by BT, and just a general sense of massive anti-climax. This is how you kill Test cricket. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

You are usually a pretty level poster, but to be honest some these comments are plain tripe.

The solution to this isn't to make English pitches more like Aussie or India, but to make Aussie and Indian pitches more like England.
You are kidding me. Apart from firstly the different soils etc, should we change our climate to suit you?

Two woefully mismatched teams
And whose fault is that?

horrible flat pitches (the MCG was a disgrace)
No denying the MCG was rubbish, but overall the pitches have offered something to both batsmen and bowler. Not our fault if your players have well and truly underperformed. Your bowlers took a total of 53 wickets in 5 Tests.

the soporific Kookaburra ball
Well you will be using it again in New Zealand! And in South Africa. And all three of us have been using it since 1946. Perhaps try practicing with it before you tour. But just because you don't like it, doesn't mean we are going to change.

impossible viewing hours
Lets move the continent closer to you shall we?

But don't worry. In a couple of years you will spank us at home, and all will be good for you.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

Lets move the continent closer to you shall we?

Don't worry - we're setting sail away from Europe soon, and hopefully we'll be heading south!

 

[aussiespursguy]

Don't worry - we're setting sail away from Europe soon, and hopefully we'll be heading south!

God help us!

 

[Pellshek]

You are usually a pretty level poster, but to be honest some these comments are plain tripe.

The solution to this isn't to make English pitches more like Aussie or India, but to make Aussie and Indian pitches more like England.
You are kidding me. Apart from firstly the different soils etc, should we change our climate to suit you?

Two woefully mismatched teams
And whose fault is that?

horrible flat pitches (the MCG was a disgrace)
No denying the MCG was rubbish, but overall the pitches have offered something to both batsmen and bowler. Not our fault if your players have well and truly underperformed. Your bowlers took a total of 53 wickets in 5 Tests.

the soporific Kookaburra ball
Well you will be using it again in New Zealand! And in South Africa. And all three of us have been using it since 1946. Perhaps try practicing with it before you tour. But just because you don't like it, doesn't mean we are going to change.

impossible viewing hours
Lets move the continent closer to you shall we?

But don't worry. In a couple of years you will spank us at home, and all will be good for you.

Whoa, sorry, I didn't mean any of what I said as a pop at Australia, though I can see how it came across that way. Apologies.

First, I'm not English, so it's not a partisan thing. I'm Irish, and while I usually like to see England do well in cricket, I'm really a neutral & just a fan of the game. So it's not about you vs. us for me. It's about good, healthy test cricket.

Re: the mismatched teams, yeah, this is primarily England's fault for sucking. Aussie have been outstanding, and it's not their fault they had no competition. Not at all.

Re: the bad viewing hours, again, I didn't mean this as a pop at Aussie (of course not!), just one of the reasons I gave for the disappointment of the series for me. It's ok to stay up all night when there's competition, but watching double centuries and 2-wicket days for 6+ hours isn't a great motivation to stay up till 5am.

Re: the pitches & the ball, these are perennial debates as you know.

Here's the bottom line for me, and I don't care how it comes about, as long as it does: I want to enjoy the full range of skills of all 22 players. Batsmen scoring runs, playing all the shots in their arsenal; fast bowlers being rewarded for pace; something there for seamers & swingers; spinners having a chance later in the match. How do we make that happen? I don't know, but for me that should be the sole focus of pitch prep & the ball used.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned centrally-contracted international groundsmen. I was being kinda facetious, but might it work if their sole mandate was to ensure an even contest of bat & ball? I suspect advances in grass/soil technology could be used way more than they are at present to improve the situation. Are we really still that much at the mercy of the sun & rain? 20 years ago European football pitches in winter were mud baths. Today they're bowling greens. Couldn't cricket get to a similar place of artificially-aided pitch prep?

Anyway, sorry for misunderstanding, maybe this is the post I should have made first time around.

 

[alfie103]

LOL at this rubbish again. You can't streamline something when you have the central contracts in place, those players you want to be playing against one another will still most likely miss most of the year unless the England management see otherwise.

As for the workload It's the Shorter formats of the game that clog it all up.

They book end the the Championship around the 50 and 20 over formats of the game now. You want people to improve then cut the shorter shit out, that or accept that some of the top talent in England would rather play the gravy train cricket than the stuff that requires them to get their heads down and dig in.

Bit like groundhog day by two weeks later ....

As for the cricket ...

Why would you change this England set up going into New Zealand? Perfect litmus test in my opinion for all those who have underperformed in this series. It would be such an England thing to do to make sweeping changes, someone from Lancashire or Surrey (any of the larger counties) comes in, smashes a hundred against a New Zealand attack and is proclaimed to be the next Jack Hobbs.

My onions of course, but the time to make the sweeping changes if they are genuinely needed in the test cricket arena are at the start of our Test Summer.

What are you talking about? It is nothing to do with central contracts. My point if we can reduce the number of teams playing, we can reduce the number of matches (four day, one day and T20) and we can still have four day cricket in the middle of the cricket season. Many players have talked about having to pick and choose the matches are switched on for as there is just so much cricket and one I remember referred to it as being like a zombie. The best players will be concentrated and playing each other improving their skills and having quality cricket at full intensity rather than just playing against mediorce players not being switched on.

There are too many bang average journeyman in county cricket who are not preparing the potential international players for international cricket (which is the whole point of county cricket)

 

[Deleted member 27995]

What are you talking about? It is nothing to do with central contracts. My point if we can reduce the number of teams playing, we can reduce the number of matches (four day, one day and T20) and we can still have four day cricket in the middle of the cricket season. Many players have talked about having to pick and choose the matches are switched on for as there is just so much cricket and one I remember referred to it as being like a zombie. The best players will be concentrated and playing each other improving their skills and having quality cricket at full intensity rather than just playing against mediorce players not being switched on.

There are too many bang average journeyman in county cricket who are not preparing the potential international players for international cricket (which is the whole point of county cricket)

Jesus fucking wept at that bit in bold.

You either have it or you don't. Can't teach mental fortitude and as far as technique goes you either learn at a young age and grow within the sport or you find something else to do. Slim lining something to produce better cricketers is pointless if you're not plowing cash in a grass roots.

You continue to ignore the fact the county game isn't played in the central months of the year due to the fact of the limited overs stuff, cut down on the number of county teams playing you still won't learn how to grind out an innings playing 50/20 over cricket. The ECB have pitched their tent of intent to the limited format of the game. Money talks and the this Ashes series, my opinion, shows that from top to bottom. Be interesting to see if all that time spent was worth it with the limited overs stuff coming up.

 

[Sweetsman]

Is there rain in the forecast?

Lots and lots of rain?

Joe Root's got heat stroke and is in hospital. Apparently, it was almost 58C at the wicket!