The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 10th August

[chas vs dave]

Herc has posted in the nuamah thread:

"This is true"

 

[KingNick]

Maybe we should have contracts like they do in the NFL; if you don’t make the squad your contract is terminated although we would still hold the player’s registration so would still be due a transfer fee should they move to another club. Radical I know but this logjam has to be broken up somehow . That might make players and agents more keen to find a new club.

Retaining financial control over a player no longer under contract sounds suspiciously like “Bosman”

 

[JayB]

Herc in the Ernest Nuamah thread.

This is true

 

[Ginola+Tonic]

I’m loving the links to the pacy wingers, I believe it’s vital in Ange’s system and definitely something we need to address before the window shuts.

Here’s hoping

 

[spursville]

I’m loving the links to the pacy wingers, I believe it’s vital in Ange’s system and definitely something we need to address before the window shuts.

Here’s hoping

I don't care how fast they moan, I've had enough of whingers!

 

[krafty007]

This is not itk, its ikt, I know this, all the talk about h kane, leaving no one player is bigger than the club, modric berbatov, I would not hold anything against this caliber of player, kane is a spurs legend, and he is right to move to bayern a top top club we have been blessed to have had him and I hope he goes on to win the balloon dor cause he is that good

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I’m loving the links to the pacy wingers, I believe it’s vital in Ange’s system and definitely something we need to address before the window shuts.

Here’s hoping

*Almost* makes me wonder if this is the reason Ange left Deki in for 90 minutes.

 

[Chris Flynn]

This is not itk, its ikt, I know this, all the talk about h kane, leaving no one player is bigger than the club, modric berbatov, I would not hold anything against this caliber of player, kane is a spurs legend, and he is right to move to bayern a top top club we have been blessed to have had him and I hope he goes on to win the balloon dor cause he is that good

Powerful stuff

 

[dirtyh]

Loving these links to young exciting wingers backed up by itk. Fantastic.
The rest of the whiny negative bullshit overloading this thread can fuck right off.

 

[Ginola+Tonic]

Loving these links to young exciting wingers backed up by itk. Fantastic.
The rest of the whiny negative bullshit overloading this thread can fuck right off.

I’m all for the positivity but they’re just links so far, nothing advanced it seems.

I do think we’ll get Orban eventually but I can only see us getting a winger aswell if we sell a few, so yeah……… Levy

 

[DiVaio]

Let me add here. We are having difficulty selling. Why? Because Daniel still wants a penny out of the pound., when to be frank, just write it off as much as you can. Take the loans with not great terms. We have money, and now we are stuck, because this is embarrassing.

This just doesn’t make any sense at all and will only create the same situation in every future transfer window with Spurs having trouble to sell unwanted players when other clubs will know that we are bad at selling.
Exactly the reason why Chelsea doesn’t have a problem with this and us or for example Arsenal have.

 

[yido_number1]

This is not itk, its ikt, I know this, all the talk about h kane, leaving no one player is bigger than the club, modric berbatov, I would not hold anything against this caliber of player, kane is a spurs legend, and he is right to move to bayern a top top club we have been blessed to have had him and I hope he goes on to win the balloon dor cause he is that good

berbatov plays well
berbatov is samelar hound when he run with the ball
berbatov is bright like dogs bright
his face looks like deer face

Similar vibes to this classic from this one.

 

[Cinemattis]

Relating to the posts from WLB and Herc (big thanks to all the ITKs for their continued charing of inside info!) and our continued problems to sell players:

I found the Athletic article by C. Eccleshare from Wednesday ("Why Tottenham are struggling to sell their unwanted players") quite interesting. The usual arguments on our price demands and players reluctance to leave as well as the chasm like divide between PL clubs and the rest of Europe when it comes to financial muscle is discussed. But there is also a fourth point which I think is very relevant to our position:

It should also be pointed out that a club’s reputation can have a big effect on how easy or hard it is to sell players. (...) it’s amazing how different perceptions are of players when they’re at a club deemed to be a good place for them to develop. (He refers to how Man City can receive good money for their fringe players). And the opposite can be true — as Spurs have demonstrated. Tottenham’s struggles over recent years make it even harder to sell unwanted players because there’s no real sense from prospective buyers that it’s been a place where individuals have been well coached or picked up good habits. Until this perception changes and until big contracts that were handed out pre-Covid expire, selling players will remain a particularly acute problem for Spurs.

I do believe he´s on to something here; when, over the past 4 years, would one say that we have been a club where players will have had a positive development tactically, technically, physically and/or mentally? Spurs players might very well be seen as damaged goods because they are Spurs players.

You wouldn´t buy a car from a dodgy dealer with a bad rep would you? The car itself might be outstanding, but the seller isn´t and thus you don´t trust that the car is actually any good.

 

[Zaphod]

The above is very true. Aside from Kane, who was the last player that another club actively wanted from our first team? Deli in his prime? I can’t actually remember when I last saw a story about Man Utd/Madrid etc wanting player x from Spurs.

I know we are uncomfortable when we see the media trying to unsettle our players or sell the to ‘bigger’ clubs but I’m reminded of that saying by some old movie star (I think), ‘What’s worse than people talking about you? People not talking about you.’ There’s a reason that aside from Harry no one was talking about our players.

 

[rawhide]

“Some old movie star” being Oscar Wilde.

But aside from that I sort of agree it could be contributory factor, but still think that by far the main problems are how hard it is to negotiate with DL. and that most of our players haven’t been as good as Man City’s. or Chelsea’s because they throw cash at the best youngsters and farm them out with little expectancy of doing much other than selling them on.

It’s part of their MO, and not ours.

Their MO feels like a no lose gamble - bring in young talent, work with them and loan them out. If they develop into a great player in a couple of years, keep them and integrate them into the squad. If not, sell them on for a small profit.

They may not catch all of their world class players during this period (De Bruyne and Salah were both famously sold by Chelsea) but it’s a self sustaining business model, with a potential huge upside.

But for it to work, clubs need to be able to make a decision, and sell players.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Their MO feels like a no lose gamble - bring in young talent, work with them and loan them out. If they develop into a great player in a couple of years, keep them and integrate them into the squad. If not, sell them on for a small profit.

They may not catch all of their world class players during this period (De Bruyne and Salah were both famously sold by Chelsea) but it’s a self sustaining business model, with a potential huge upside.

But for it to work, clubs need to be able to make a decision, and sell players.

There are other issues too, but it probably deserves a different thread.

 

[Lancaster Spur]

Relating to the posts from WLB and Herc (big thanks to all the ITKs for their continued charing of inside info!) and our continued problems to sell players:

I found the Athletic article by C. Eccleshare from Wednesday ("Why Tottenham are struggling to sell their unwanted players") quite interesting. The usual arguments on our price demands and players reluctance to leave as well as the chasm like divide between PL clubs and the rest of Europe when it comes to financial muscle is discussed. But there is also a fourth point which I think is very relevant to our position:

It should also be pointed out that a club’s reputation can have a big effect on how easy or hard it is to sell players. (...) it’s amazing how different perceptions are of players when they’re at a club deemed to be a good place for them to develop. (He refers to how Man City can receive good money for their fringe players). And the opposite can be true — as Spurs have demonstrated. Tottenham’s struggles over recent years make it even harder to sell unwanted players because there’s no real sense from prospective buyers that it’s been a place where individuals have been well coached or picked up good habits. Until this perception changes and until big contracts that were handed out pre-Covid expire, selling players will remain a particularly acute problem for Spurs.

I do believe he´s on to something here; when, over the past 4 years, would one say that we have been a club where players will have had a positive development tactically, technically, physically and/or mentally? Spurs players might very well be seen as damaged goods because they are Spurs players.

You wouldn´t by a car from a dodgy dealer with a bad rep would you? The car itself might be outstanding, but the seller isn´t and thus you don´t trust that the car is actually any good.

There's also the issue that man city's fringe players are competing with the absolute best for a world class manager. If the player can't get into a team it's probably not because he's not good, it's probably that there are just 2/3 outstanding players for each position.

Conversely at Spurs, we've done a terrible job recruiting the right level of players recently and for our fringe players not getting the game time is more likely down to them being not good enough. Teams looking at our fringe players know it is a substantial drop in standard compared to the likes of man city and therefore a they aren't going to pay decent money for them.

So using your analogy, the dodgy sales person with dodgy merchandise is even less likely to get the sale.

 

[danny32]

I have a question. If all itk are from different sources, why do they all collectively go quiet at the same time ?

The collective sum of nothing = nothing

 

[ardiles&villa]

The collective sum of nothing = nothing

Just to add I’m not itk bashing at all was just curious that’s all.

 

[Rob]

Please don't bother all PMing me later to ask why you lost access to here.