The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 10th August

[danny32]

The unwanted players are a bottleneck that have been building up over the last 2-3 years coupled with poor recruitment and our total failings in managing the squad in a prudent manner. They need to accept the situation as bad business decisions and take the hit to correct it in the best possible manner. If we need to rip up contracts be ruthless and do it.

 

[midoNdefoe]

Thanks for the updates.

As far as I see it, we need a top WF or striker and a top CB to give Ange a decent crack at it.
We also need a DoF who can take the reigns off Levy again as things were starting to seem a bit more functional with Paritici doing the transfers.

We also need everyone to have a quick 10-count before regurgitating the same Levy bile every time we get info. Not that I don’t agree, but it’s like everyone is waiting for more itk so they can paste their standard response again

 

[mattspur1986]

How is it waffle?
Do you think that's good for morale? Some of these players are friends with other players. Negative attitudes can be insidious.

Ange doesn't come across as a dick.

I'm not saying it's facts, I'm saying it's a possibility.

But they aren’t being played now, and clearly won’t be played regardless if they get moves or not. How is training with the 1st team knowing you’re 99%not being selected any different to training with the u21s? So many of these players have taken so much from the club without giving ANYTHING back ( I don’t include dier in this ) as I think he’s been a good servant.

but to say ange may not want any more players seems wide of the mark, maybe saying it was waffle was harsh so I’m sorry.
Any way I don’t want to derail the thread any more - so think we should probably leave it there.

 

[KingNick]

The unwanted players are a bottleneck that have been building up over the last 2-3 years coupled with poor recruitment and our total failings in managing the squad in a prudent manner. They need to accept the situation as bad business decisions and take the hit to correct it in the best possible manner. If we need to rip up contracts be ruthless and do it.

Using even an average of £70,000 a week (which is too low especially with Ndombele on much higher and two years left), it would cost the club at least £26million to pay off 7 players.

By contrast, as with last season, we are probably able to find loans for most of those 7 where we get a significant contribution to those wages.

So "ripping up contracts" is not ruthless, it's just plain stupid.

 

[spurslenny]

How many of those we want out have a realistic chance of making a Euro's squad?

Dier, Hoijberg, Davies, Gil (?), Reguilon (?).

Anyway, stop pissing on my optimism chips.

 

[WiganSpur]

Using even an average of £70,000 a week (which is too low especially with Ndombele on much higher and two years left), it would cost the club at least £26million to pay off 7 players.

By contrast, as with last season, we are probably able to find loans for most of those 7 where we get a significant contribution to those wages.

So "ripping up contracts" is not ruthless, it's just plain stupid.

There's a difference between a full rip up and a mutual termination though. As an example if the rest of Tanguy's contract is worth say £10m, then you might come to an agreement on £5m say, as he can then pocket that and get paid by another club for the next couple of years. Clearly paying off a full contract is pointless though unless they are a disruptive influence. I do agree that it should be kept to a minimum though, as it sets a bad precedent. Loaning with partially subsidised wages is a better option as then there is always a small chance the player might impress and earn a permanent deal.

 

[SpursSince1980]

So basically, based on ITK - the stuff to get super-excited about over the next week is OUTGOINGS!

Perhaps we need a reverse Stoof stamp to celebrate!

 

[danny32]

Using even an average of £70,000 a week (which is too low especially with Ndombele on much higher and two years left), it would cost the club at least £26million to pay off 7 players.

By contrast, as with last season, we are probably able to find loans for most of those 7 where we get a significant contribution to those wages.

So "ripping up contracts" is not ruthless, it's just plain stupid.

Contracts don't normally get paid up in full and can have clauses that if alternative employment is found the settlement is reduced. I can't imagine that any player who is left out of the squad whose contract is terminated will want to do nothing for a year and will seek to negotiate a mutual payoff.

You are also unlikely to ripup 7 players contracts as i am sure we will be able to offload some of them, but 3-4 would be palaptable if it meant getting in the players you want and finishing higher in the league where the prize money is greater.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I think with Tanguy the only humane thing to do is, on the next away match day, ask him to investigate a weird noise at the back of the bus and then drive off.

He won't be arsed to find his way back and maybe he'll accidentally end up at Watford or something.

 

[talkshowhost86]

So basically, based on ITK - the stuff to get super-excited about over the next week is OUTGOINGS!

Perhaps we need a reverse Stoof stamp to celebrate!

We're going to cheer a Tanganga loan like its a World Cup win dammit!

 

[chas vs dave]

But they aren’t being played now, and clearly won’t be played regardless if they get moves or not. How is training with the 1st team knowing you’re 99%not being selected any different to training with the u21s? So many of these players have taken so much from the club without giving ANYTHING back ( I don’t include dier in this ) as I think he’s been a good servant.

but to say ange may not want any more players seems wide of the mark, maybe saying it was waffle was harsh so I’m sorry.
Any way I don’t want to derail the thread any more - so think we should probably leave it there.

I never said ange didn't want more players.

I said he may want to trim the squad before adding more. I'm certain he's had honest conversations with some of these players about their opportunities.

 

[Japhet]

To be honest, I think we're already past the point of being able to complete coherent business. It's hard to see us getting more than another 4 to 5 players out the door now, when we need to double that figure. It is nothing short of a disgrace that we have managed to move only 2 players out (1 permanent) since May. And it's been a number of weeks since Ange will have made his assessments. We should have been lining up moves for those with question marks way before that point. Levy should have been hard at work the moment Ange was appointed. Line up transfers for the 10/12 players that we weren't 100% on keeping and then let Ange pull plugs where necessary. Instead Levy has been fast asleep and still to this day has not awoken.

All sounds remarkably simple.

 

[KingNick]

Contracts don't normally get paid up in full and can have clauses that if alternative employment is found the settlement is reduced. I can't imagine that any player who is left out of the squad whose contract is terminated will want to do nothing for a year and will seek to negotiate a mutual payoff.

"ripping up a contract" necessarily involves paying it up in full, which is the point I was responding to. So yes, the club needs to find a mutually acceptable solution if they want to pay less than the full amount. But even then, if a player puts money over playing time (or simply tries to bluff that they would), they can leverage their position better than the club can. And their agents will certainly be looking to get as big a share of the amount the club would be saving for themselves.

 

[WiganSpur]

I never said ange didn't want more players.

I said he may want to trim the squad before adding more. I'm certain he's had honest conversations with some of these players about their opportunities.

I think you have to be prepared to bring in whoever you need no matter what as long as you're within the FFP boundaries which we clearly are. That puts it beyond doubt for those on the fringes of the squad and likely gives them the final push to leave. I bet Dier is thinking why leave when the club won't actually replace me until I leave?

 

[Dannyspur]

Stadium will be a game changer he said loooool

When we’ve paid for it?

 

[wrd]

When we’ve paid for it?

The year 2050?

 

[parklane yid]

So we get ITK saying big bid submitted for David, then you all lose your heads over ITK from D1 . Honestly I do wonder how many of you cope with day to day life.

 

[SCUMmucs]

Its a strange situation with outgoings, you’d think we’d be desperate to sell at any price considering some are on the last year or second to last year.

Then you look at Doherty who was release purely due to a screw up… maybe incompetence is our last hope?

 

[danny32]

"ripping up a contract" necessarily involves paying it up in full, which is the point I was responding to. So yes, the club needs to find a mutually acceptable solution if they want to pay less than the full amount. But even then, if a player puts money over playing time (or simply tries to bluff that they would), they can leverage their position better than the club can. And their agents will certainly be looking to get as big a share of the amount the club would be saving for themselves.

Interestingly Arsenal paid Aubayemang £7mio to terminate and Ozil £7.5 mio to terminate.
Pretty decisive from them that enabled to get them off the books and rebuild succesfully.

 

[chas vs dave]

Interestingly Arsenal paid Aubayemang £7mio to terminate and Ozil £7.5 mio to terminate.
Pretty decisive from them that enabled to get them off the books and rebuild succesfully.

It was only a portion of their contract. The players agreed it because they had moves lined up to barca and fenerbace respectively.

People like dier are probably looking for their final big contract and may feel better suited to sit it out.