The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 30 June 2011

[Bobbins]

knowing Wenger he'll have a couple of very tasty replacements who will slide right into their side...easier said than done mind.

What like the incredibly successful Squillaci, Koscielny and Chamakh? :wink:

Awful players.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

If they get Joey Barton, it could be a masterstroke.

 

[Mr Pink]

What like the incredibly successful Squillaci, Koscielny and Chamakh? :wink:

Awful players.

Well if its replacements of that ilk I'll certainly be smiling :wink:

 

[MilkyBarYid]

If they get Joey Barton, it could be a masterstroke.

Why? He is a mid table player at best.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Why? He is a mid table player at best.

Because he's a nasty piece of work and they are crying out for a couple of players like that.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And how much do you think we were prepared to pay for Suarez before we turned our noses up at him?

Hard to say. I'd like to think we'd have paid what ever he cost. I'm not having a pop at Levy (it probably sounded like it), more the nonsense idea that he was flying around europe with 30m+ in a suit case trying to Aguero, Rossi etc. I'm not suggesting we are super frugal either or skint. But I think we may not be about to spend the kind of money that some think.

knowing Wenger he'll have a couple of very tasty replacements who will slide right into their side...easier said than done mind.

I think they have players like Arshavin and Rosicky who can come in and contribute offensively some of what Nasri does, but they are not as good as Nasri. Losing Fabregas - who IMO is the best attacking midfielder in the EPL - is not easy to replace. Wiltshire is a great little player but he's not Fabregas.


I also think Clichy is one of the three best LB's in the EPL, better than people on here give him credit and certainly better than Ekotto. Again, Gibbs is a promising understudy, but not as good yet.

Three big losses IMO.

 

[faze_coys]

If they get Joey Barton, it could be a masterstroke.

i agree tbh.

 

[Mr Pink]

Hard to say. I'd like to think we'd have paid what ever he cost. I'm not having a pop at Levy (it probably sounded like it), more the nonsense idea that he was flying around europe with 30m+ in a suit case trying to Aguero, Rossi etc. I'm not suggesting we are super frugal either or skint. But I think we may not be about to spend the kind of money that some think.



I think they have players like Arshavin and Rosicky who can come in and contribute offensively some of what Nasri does, but they are not as good as Nasri. Losing Fabregas - who IMO is the best attacking midfielder in the EPL - is not easy to replace. Wiltshire is a great little player but he's not Fabregas.


I also think Clichy is one of the three best LB's in the EPL, better than people on here give him credit and certainly better than Ekotto. Again, Gibbs is a promising understudy, but not as good yet.

Three big losses IMO.

Arshavin is highly inconsistent but on his day he's a very dangerous player. Rosicky hasn't been great for them but I agree with the point you're making.

Clichy isn't that great for me, and certainly not better than Ekotto - IMO.

 

[werty]

I used to be a Clichy fan, but he's been shit for at least two years now. Gibbs won't be much of a downgrade for them.

I wouldn't be too sure if Wenger can spend the money well either. He's great at unearthing great young players and turning them into gems, but any time he's tried to spend on older, established players he hasn't been all that successful. No doubt they'll have some youngster ready to step in though. :roll:.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Hard to say. I'd like to think we'd have paid what ever he cost. I'm not having a pop at Levy (it probably sounded like it), more the nonsense idea that he was flying around europe with 30m+ in a suit case trying to Aguero, Rossi etc. I'm not suggesting we are super frugal either or skint. But I think we may not be about to spend the kind of money that some think.

You sounded a bit flippant, yes-to me, anyway. I believe that we did indeed bid big money for the likes of Rossi late in the January transfer window. And I believe we were prepared to spend big money on Carroll and Suarez. And far from bidding £8m-£10m for a superstar, we had a last minute bid accepted for Charlie Adam, as I understand it.

I do not agree that we are selling Palacios because we are quite possibly up shit creek for cash. I think it is because he has fallen way down the pecking order and the player himself is keen to move on.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Three big losses IMO.

I am not sure about this. I think they can survive just fine without Clichy and Fabregas. However, losing Nasri and Fabregas would be plain unfortunate. And despite losing three good players (two of them outstanding, in my book), do they have a pair of balls between them?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You sounded a bit flippant, yes-to me, anyway. I believe that we did indeed bid big money for the likes of Rossi late in the January transfer window. And I believe we were prepared to spend big money on Carroll and Suarez. And far from bidding £8m-£10m for a superstar, we had a last minute bid accepted for Charlie Adam, as I understand it.

I do not agree that we are selling Palacios because we are quite possibly up shit creek for cash. I think it is because he has fallen way down the pecking order and the player himself is keen to move on.

I wouldn't have wanted us to spend anything on Carroll, but I don't understand why 20m for Suarez wasn't snapped up. I hope it wasn't the money, and just the stupid crap Redknapp came up with about some scout telling him Suarez was not worth it (I paraphrase).

If you are right about Palacios, I'd be fucking disappointed, but not totally surprised. But he is one of only two DM's we have. Hudd isn't one and neither is Jenas (also up for sale), and nor is Pienaar. I'm positive that given the choice Redknapp would like to keep Palacios around. I just think Levy has told Redknapp the squad has to be trimmed and funds raised and with the others proving hard to shift, Palacios at 15m all of sudden became tempting. We have spent 90m I think since Redknapp arrived and recouped no more that a third of that possibly.

Question: If we were prepared to bid 30m+ on Jan 31, why did we not go straight back the minute the season finished and bid it ?

Again, I'm not having a pop at Levy, I'm not sure I want Rossi for 30m to be honest, what I'm saying is Levy might have tried to bring in a striker, but I reckon he was trying to do a deal, he would have a valuation and a position - I just don't think Levy would be comfortable paying 30m+ for as player valued at 18m a few months earlier. It's not his style to go in all Ron Atkinson style and throw money like confetti.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I am not sure about this. I think they can survive just fine without Clichy and Fabregas. However, losing Nasri and Fabregas would be plain unfortunate. And despite losing three good players (two of them outstanding, in my book), do they have a pair of balls between them?

They both have balls in terms of how the play. Players like Nasri and Fabregas get kicked to fuck, quality flair players always do, and these two are two of the best. Would you want them as busy ****'s in a CM battle ? No. But that's not their forte. THe provide intelligence, guile and creativity in abundance.

Maybe they should stick a bid in for Palacios ?

 

[jonathanhotspur]

It was widely reported that we bid in excess of £20m (somewhere around the £23m mark, I believe, for Carroll).

We have been hearing for a number of months that Palacios is looking for a fresh start. He has blatantly fallen way down the pecking order (from first choice cm to fourth, I think you could say).

In my opinion, the reason we're not going straight back with a £35m offer for Rossi (for instance) at this time is at least partly because there was a "January tax" built into that figure.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

People's opinion of Clichy is strange. He goes forwards much better than Ekotto. He's quick, skilful, and defends pretty well - better than Ekotto and certainly no worse.

If you think about left backs and full backs in general, they are such niche position. They have to be quick and skilful but also tenacious. They must be attackers and defenders. Getting up and down the length of the pitch all day long. Possibly the only player on the pitch whose remit covers the full length and all disciplines when they are good. I think Clichy is in the top 3 in the EPL.

Really top class FB's are pretty rare.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

They both have balls in terms of how the play. Players like Nasri and Fabregas get kicked to fuck, quality flair players always do, and these two are two of the best. Would you want them as busy ****'s in a CM battle ? No. But that's not their forte. THe provide intelligence, guile and creativity in abundance.

Maybe they should stick a bid in for Palacios ?

When the chips are down at the Emirates, who provides the leadership? Why have they made a name for themselves in the art of implosion? Is it not widely acknowledged that Cesc is not captain material? Are there not rumblings from Arse fans that he doesn't always have the heart for a battle?

As I was saying above, a player like Barton could galvanise them.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It was widely reported that we bid in excess of £20m (somewhere around the £23m mark, I believe for Carroll).

We have been hearing for a number of months that Palacios is looking for a fresh start. He has blatantly fallen way down the pecking order (from first choice cm to fourth, I think you could say).

In my opinion, the reason we're not going straight back with a £35m offer for Rossi (for instance) at this time is at least partly because there was a "January tax" built into that figure.

Maybe. I think it's a mistake if so. I think one of the reasons we threw so many points away this season is because Palacios was omitted so often.

The season we finished fourth I think he was our second most important player, maybe even first over the course of the season.

I'm resigned to loosing Palacios now, but I'm gutted, I think he's been mismanaged and wasted, and now fucked off so Redknapp can bring in Scotty Parker and his little thunderbird legs. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm going to bed.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

When the chips are down at the Emirates, who provides the leadership? Why have they made a name for themselves in the art of implosion? Is it not widely acknowledged that Cesc is not captain material? Are there not rumblings from Arse fans that he doesn't always have the heart for a battle?

As I was saying above, a player like Barton could galvanise them.

But not at the expense of Fabregas. You need both, creativity and balls. And they can do better than Barton as well.

Fabregas is the best attacking midfielder - in fact the cleverest footballer - in the EPL.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

People's opinion of Clichy is strange. He goes forwards much better than Ekotto. He's quick, skilful, and defends pretty well - better than Ekotto and certainly no worse.

I think he's good, without being outstanding. If they got Baines in (and there's more talk about this Enrique chap), they mightn't suffer too much. I agree that Clichy's better than BAE when it comes to his attacking play-but I don't rate BAE anyway.

People are probably just quick to the boot into him because he's one of Wenger's boys, BC. You know the type who can't acknowledge the brilliance of players like Nasri, preferring instead to call him a fat lesbian they'd like to slap.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

But not at the expense of Fabregas. You need both, creativity and balls. And they can do better than Barton as well.

Fabregas is the best attacking midfielder - in fact the cleverest footballer - in the EPL.

I think Fabregas-in terms of his ability-is the nuts, the best footballer in the PL. I think Barcelona's offers for him have been derisory beyond belief but I believe they have reached a point where they are as well to cut their losses.

I am not saying they should replace Fabregas with Joey Bleeding Barton!