The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Hello

[Finchyid]

I know some will criticise that we might end up keeping certain players but I think overall it’s good if Ange thinks he can coach up ‘some’ of our youngsters and ‘a few’ of our underperformers as frankly Jose and Conte especially made it very difficult for certain players to be able to thrive in such rigid defensive counter attacking tactics.

The update also states we are making moves on a number of different incomings so overall that seems to be a nice balance, bring a good 5-6 in and coach up some youngsters and ‘underperformers’ and then get rid of a ton of players to slim down the squad.

Happy days.

We haven’t had a coach for 4 years so would be nice to have one who tries to get the best of players instead of slating them

 

[FloridaSpur]

Prof on COYS:

Not only working on gk and mid. Initial list of cb targets cut down to those approved by Ange. Two approaches made so far - one young and promising, the other a little older and more experienced. If they seem doable we’ll negotiate. If not we’ll move on. Would like 3 new defenders for the squad - number depends on outgoings. Ange bullish he can coach up some of our youngsters and a few of our under performers which is music to the boss’s ears. Lol

With all due respect, if Poch, Nuno, Jose, Conte and Mason can't "coach up" our under performers i doubt Ange can.

I just can't see Winks, Tanganga, Lo Celso, N'Dombele and the rest playing to yet another tune.

I thought that i read in here a few days ago that Levy was going to be "ruthless" with those same players, or was that "toothless"?

 

[Thenewcat]

Considering how hard Ange wants players to work, it's hard to see what he could do to get Ndom to break a sweat, think he may be getting encouragement from Levy & co to persist as it looks like we cannot get rid.

That might well be true, but it doesn’t contradict what I said. I said if Ange wants to keep him that’s fine, not if Ange is forced to keep him that’s fine

 

[BasingstokeYid]

Harsh on Richy mate.

That's who I thought he was talking about, lol

 

[jolsnogross]

Ange has quite a job on his hands to turn our shitshow around. Part of that challenge is the hierarchy building a load of nonsense squad across several managers. And we can't get shot of many wasters, even though chelsea and others seem not to have issues offloading expensive mistakes.

I hope Ange can get to grips on who he wants out and stick to it. Otherwise another false dawn could be incoming.

 

[rawhide]

Oh yeah I forgot the window closes a few days into pre season or the season starts a few days after pre season. It doesn't take long to determine if a player has the fundamentals. A month of pre season ahead of the start of the season is plenty for him to decide. Why do people think they know better than the manager?

Because on the internet, everyone believes their opinion carries equal weight to actual facts and experts just because they’re on the same social media platform - it’s literally a post truth environment we are currently experiencing.

 

[Mr Pink]

That's who I thought he was talking about, lol

Me as well!

I though Ndombele was 52/54 million.

 

[dontcallme]

Because on the internet, everyone believes their opinion carries equal weight to actual facts and experts just because they’re on the same social media platform - it’s literally a post truth environment we are currently experiencing.

Or maybe we’re just fans sharing our views.

It’s very weird to interpret me saying we should sell a player because I don’t think he’s good enough as I think I know better than the manager because he wants to assess the squad first.

 

[theicemanspursscotty]

With all due respect, if Poch, Nuno, Jose, Conte and Mason can't "coach up" our under performers i doubt Ange can.

I just can't see Winks, Tanganga, Lo Celso, N'Dombele and the rest playing to yet another tune.

I thought that i read in here a few days ago that Levy was going to be "ruthless" with those same players, or was that "toothless"?

I'm willing to give the 'wasters' in the squad the benefit of doubt under an attacking coach - they've been forced to deal with negative, defensive managers for the best part of the last four years (I'm not including Poch and Mason in this, Poch only had 14 games with Lo Celso and N'Dombele and Mason even less). Nuno, Jose and Conte systematically destroyed the confidence of our entire squad and didn't encourage any development or attacking philosophies - I am willing to bet that an attacking, front foot manager will be able to get more out of this squad than the previous managers and actually coach them. I remember everyone writing off Dembele before Poch showed up (he was shunted out to wing for most of his first couple of years with us) and then he became a world class midfielder within a few years.

It might be too late for some of the squad but I'm willing to reserve judgement until an attacking coach has had at least 12-18 months with some of these players.

 

[Albertbarich]

With all due respect, if Poch, Nuno, Jose, Conte and Mason can't "coach up" our under performers i doubt Ange can.

I just can't see Winks, Tanganga, Lo Celso, N'Dombele and the rest playing to yet another tune.

I thought that i read in here a few days ago that Levy was going to be "ruthless" with those same players, or was that "toothless"?

Really disagree with this as it's taking your imagination to make half truths.

Let's go back.

Poch had Winks firing but it's widely acknowledged he hasn't been the same since an ankle injury but he was a good player for Poch. Tanganga never played for Poch and Lo Celso and N'dombele only had 2 months under him. The rest? Dier had some very good seasons as a centre back and a defensive midfielder, Sanchez I can't defend and I'm not even going to justify the stick Ben Davies gets because he has been a great club servant for years.

Mourinho didn't like Winks, gave Tanganga his debut and got some very good performances out of him, had Lo Celso flying to the point he wanted to sign him permanently, got some good but inconsistent form out of N'dombele and liked Dier.

Nuno? If you're using him as a stick to beat our players with them I don't know what to say. He should never have been here. Full stop.

Conte. So we got rid of Winks for him, kept Tanganga despite how harmful it's been to the lads career and Conte having no desire to play him, got rid of Lo Celso and N'dombele for him and he loved Dier. Loved him

So really a lot of this is these managers giving these players no chance and them not playing and if they were the form going up and down much like these managers mood.

We have to ship out about 20 players due to numerous factors and of course a new manager isn't going to come in and say they're all shit . That would be stupid. The more talented who are harder to sell will get pre season or at least some of it to impress. But this is a manager known to be ruthless in getting rid of players who don't perform or buy in to his methods so I hardly think he is going to throw away his biggest ever job to build a team around a semi fit N'dombele. If however the player gets himself in shape then he has the talent for any club so why not give him a few weeks?

I swear these so called proven winners have convinced some of you that these players are Nazis or something. They're just hugely talented under performing players and it's the managers job to help and improve them or at least try , if he had gone into the interview like some would have wanted he wouldnt just not get this job but any job in the world.

EDIT - Sorry mods just realised this is the ITK thread, if it's too off topic will happily delete

 

[BENNO]

Really disagree with this as it's taking your imagination to make half truths.

Let's go back.

Poch had Winks firing but it's widely acknowledged he hasn't been the same since an ankle injury but he was a good player for Poch. Tanganga never played for Poch and Lo Celso and N'dombele only had 2 months under him. The rest? Dier had some very good seasons as a centre back and a defensive midfielder, Sanchez I can't defend and I'm not even going to justify the stick Ben Davies gets because he has been a great club servant for years.

Mourinho didn't like Winks, gave Tanganga his debut and got some very good performances out of him, had Lo Celso flying to the point he wanted to sign him permanently, got some good but inconsistent form out of N'dombele and liked Dier.

Nuno? If you're using him as a stick to beat our players with them I don't know what to say. He should never have been here. Full stop.

Conte. So we got rid of Winks for him, kept Tanganga despite how harmful it's been to the lads career and Conte having no desire to play him, got rid of Lo Celso and N'dombele for him and he loved Dier. Loved him

So really a lot of this is these managers giving these players no chance and them not playing and if they were the form going up and down much like these managers mood.

We have to ship out about 20 players due to numerous factors and of course a new manager isn't going to come in and say they're all shit . That would be stupid. The more talented who are harder to sell will get pre season or at least some of it to impress. But this is a manager known to be ruthless in getting rid of players who don't perform or buy in to his methods so I hardly think he is going to throw away his biggest ever job to build a team around a semi fit N'dombele. If however the player gets himself in shape then he has the talent for any club so why not give him a few weeks?

I swear these so called proven winners have convinced some of you that these players are Nazis or something. They're just hugely talented under performing players and it's the managers job to help and improve them or at least try , if he had gone into the interview like some would have wanted he wouldnt just not get this job but any job in the world.

EDIT - Sorry mods just realised this is the ITK thread, if it's too off topic will happily delete

Hopefully this won't be deleted because it's an excellent post

 

[Trix]

Me as well!

I though Ndombele was 52/54 million.

He was over £60mil (62 iirc)and the only player we have bought that was, but that's besides the point. I honestly didn't think that post and description of the player was open to interpretation, but I guess I forgot where I was.

 

[gavspur]

He was over £60mil (62 iirc)and the only player we have bought that was, but that's besides the point. I honestly didn't think that post and description of the player was open to interpretation, but I guess I forgot where I was.

Why the constant put down of people? I appreciate your info, but you don’t need to be quite so edgy, as if everyone is below you.

 

[SaKkA.kenchiku]

Scott Munn?

But, I thought he has not really started yet - I guess he can pull some strings behind the scenes.

I am based in Shanghai and good mate coaches his son in school here, he had a chat with him and definitely seems Munn is already working and was involved talking with Ange and had chats with Kane also. Apparently said he Luis Enrique presented a team to them that would have cost 500m to build so Ange was the best fit for what we wanted…..

I am not ITK but my very close friend does coach his kid so I shared as the info is nothing spectacular but gives insight in Munn’s involvement and interesting regarding Luis Enrique…..

of course this came from an friend (really close and honest) but none the less not directly from me….

 

[yido_number1]

I am based in Shanghai and good mate coaches his son in school here, he had a chat with him and definitely seems Munn is already working and was involved talking with Ange and had chats with Kane also. Apparently said he Luis Enrique presented a team to them that would have cost 500m to build so Ange was the best fit for what we wanted…..

I am not ITK but my very close friend does coach his kid so I shared as the info is nothing spectacular but gives insight in Munn’s involvement and interesting regarding Luis Enrique…..

of course this came from an friend (really close and honest) but none the less not directly from me….

I'd guess 500m would be an exaggeration.

I don't think there's any doubt he's working after seeing him in the lounge with levy. I think anyone of that level would be and will just not put his name to any paper work yet.

 

[Timberwolf]

I am based in Shanghai and good mate coaches his son in school here, he had a chat with him and definitely seems Munn is already working and was involved talking with Ange and had chats with Kane also. Apparently said he Luis Enrique presented a team to them that would have cost 500m to build so Ange was the best fit for what we wanted…..

I am not ITK but my very close friend does coach his kid so I shared as the info is nothing spectacular but gives insight in Munn’s involvement and interesting regarding Luis Enrique…..

of course this came from an friend (really close and honest) but none the less not directly from me….

That kinda sums up why I wasn't keen on Enrique. Despite his more positive style of play I think his expectations would've never aligned with the reality under Levy and he would've gone the same way as Jose and Conte after 12-18 months.

 

[Trix]

Why the constant put down of people? I appreciate your info, but you don’t need to be quite so edgy, as if everyone is below you.

Apologies to all.

 

[jbstarr14]

Bloody hell could he move that night

Strange to see him not backing off to be honest.

 

[Roynie]

I don't know why anyone worries about players getting another chance. Ange isn't going to pick anyone who doesn't impress at the end of the day. So what if someone we wrote off ends up proving us wrong? All that matters is we have a squad Ange is happy with. We have a massive squad and only the best will make the cut. Ange is no mug.

THIS.

The defensive tactics of a number of our last few managers would break the enthusiasm and motivation of a saint. If Ange can regenerate our under performing players and get them playing as he wants, what's the problem? If he can't then definitely get rid!

 

[cliff jones]

I'm willing to give the 'wasters' in the squad the benefit of doubt under an attacking coach - they've been forced to deal with negative, defensive managers for the best part of the last four years (I'm not including Poch and Mason in this, Poch only had 14 games with Lo Celso and N'Dombele and Mason even less). Nuno, Jose and Conte systematically destroyed the confidence of our entire squad and didn't encourage any development or attacking philosophies - I am willing to bet that an attacking, front foot manager will be able to get more out of this squad than the previous managers and actually coach them. I remember everyone writing off Dembele before Poch showed up (he was shunted out to wing for most of his first couple of years with us) and then he became a world class midfielder within a few years.

It might be too late for some of the squad but I'm willing to reserve judgement until an attacking coach has had at least 12-18 months with some of these players.

another 12-18 months with which players? Hope you're not including Dier, Sanchez, Davies, Rodon, Sess, Regi, all of whom have had their day or are/were oddly never fit- manager or coach irrelevant

We desperately need new blood at the back, hope some of those linked have good pace