The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Or is it? 28th July 2014

[Everlasting Seconds]

And lo! It came to pass, herbert A makes a comment that herbert B can't let slide, which begets herberts C and D to join in….. we're about to get 3 or 4 pages on Paulinho. Paulfuckinginho.

*Slowly removes banstick from velvet bag

I like Paulinho, I think he will come good, I don't think he is our new Jenas and I'm, happy about the lack of ITK mentioning him.

 

[CockOnBall]

Don't rate him. Also not wise to have a player with a heart defect in a team that will be pressing hard most of the game, game after game. But that's besides the point really, I just don't dig this player.

Remy is not right up Levy's street if he's failing medicals.
It's been suggested he has a knee issue on top of the heart thing, which would explain why it fell down at the very last minute, Liverpool would have been well aware of the heart thing prior to going so far on the deal.

As for Griezmann, I find it hard to think that was ever anything more than paper/agent talk, so call me unbothered by news of his impending transfer

I found Remy's failed medical as little more than an excuse for LFC to back out of the deal. After all, they only moved for Remy when the bid for Borini was accepted. Conveniently, the deal is now off as Borini's move collapses.

I am not saying Remy doesn't have a minor heart defect. But Bale also has a back alignment problem too. If you test almost every human being as thoroughly as a medical, you will find some issues. Almost like a house survey. It's all about risk assessment. Fact is that Remy has passed medicals at QPR, Newcastle and Marseille.

I am not a medical expert but my guess is that he will sign for another club following a passed medical. Clubs, when they actually want to, will build contigencies in the contract to guard themselves. No greater example than Demba Ba who passed a medical at Chelsea, West Ham and now some Turkish club despite a knee injury which Stoke told us "can blow any minute".

All just opinion of course. I respect yours. I just think at 8-11m, Remy is too good value. Wouldn't surprise me if Levy felt the same especially when he looks at other 1 in 2 pl record strikers around (if that's what he's looking for).

 

[Klinsmannesque]

Pretty sure both Lallana and Lovren were quoted at £5m more than the figure they went for (AL - £30m, DL - £25m) and even then those headline figures were inclusive of add-ons. I'm sure a deal could be struck around £20-22m with add ons of around £4-5m, and then if Levy works some part-ex magic like with Gylfi (inflated price as part of the deal) we could end up getting a better deal than most who dealt with Soton this summer.

I think the fact that Pool had an influx of Suarez cash was the reason behind their deals being tied up quicker - I think they lost a little of value-for-money sense, maybe like we did last summer. Coupled with Utd splashing 27m on a teenager Soton probably felt they could squeeze over-market value for all their players. Levy this summer is involved in a different game, wont be held to ransom, and will negotiate as he knows how. If Mopo wants MS its irrelevant whats going on elsewhere, Levy will go at his pace and his valuation.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I think the fact that Pool had an influx of Suarez cash was the reason behind their deals being tied up quicker - I think they lost a little of value-for-money sense, maybe like we did last summer. Coupled with Utd splashing 27m on a teenager Soton probably felt they could squeeze over-market value for all their players. Levy this summer is involved in a different game, wont be held to ransom, and will negotiate as he knows how. If Mopo wants MS its irrelevant whats going on elsewhere, Levy will go at his pace and his valuation.

The only issue with this is that Arsenal may get more serious as the window goes on, which would make us signing him even more difficult...

 

[Mr Pink]

I'd suggest that the main difference between MS and Bentaleb/Mason is experieince, I would agree it might well take both the youngsters a season to become as good as MS, so the question becomes 'what's it worth to get the player we want/need a year earlier than we could by developing our own young players'.

If a players + cash deal can be done, we may get MS, otherwise I'm not sure we'll want to pay the amount Southamptoin want

Conversely though mate, its conceivable that neither would become as good as MS. That doesn't mean neither wouldn't be valuable players for us though, just that Schneiderlin is a player of extreme quality for his position/role IMO.

 

[CockOnBall]

I have a deep sense of distrust and caution towards anyone who uses an exclamation mark to end every one of their sentences.

Don't be ridiculous!
There's nothing wrong with emphasising your opinion!
Especially if there is a helicopter flying overhead!

 

[Spursidol]

I found Remy's failed medical as little more than an excuse for LFC to back out of the deal. After all, they only moved for Remy when the bid for Borini was accepted. Conveniently, the deal is now off as Borini's move collapses.

I am not saying Remy doesn't have a minor heart defect. But Bale also has a back alignment problem too. If you test almost every human being as thoroughly as a medical, you will find some issues. Almost like a house survey. It's all about risk assessment. Fact is that Remy has passed medicals at QPR, Newcastle and Marseille.

I am not a medical expert but my guess is that he will sign for another club following a passed medical. Clubs, when they actually want to, will build contigencies in the contract to guard themselves. No greater example than Demba Ba who passed a medical at Chelsea, West Ham and now some Turkish club despite a knee injury which Stoke told us "can blow any minute".

All just opinion of course. I respect yours. I just think at 8-11m, Remy is too good value. Wouldn't surprise me if Levy felt the same especially when he looks at other 1 in 2 pl record strikers around (if that's what he's looking for).

IMO there are very few 'failed' medicals. However all clubs seek to insure the players after the medical is done - and it could well be that the cost of the annual insurance premium plus the players wages make the deal (Plus a transfer fee) too hard to swallow for the buying club, especially FFP targets to meet.

 

[Spursidol]

Conversely though mate, its conceivable that neither would become as good as MS. That doesn't mean neither wouldn't be valuable players for us though, just that Schneiderlin is a player of extreme quality for his position/role IMO.

Very fair point. But I think it becomes a risk/reward decision as to what size of fee (+players invlved in the deal) that Spurs are prpared to pay to get certainty of a beter player than we've already got in our youngsters

 

[felmani26]

And lo! It came to pass, herbert A makes a comment that herbert B can't let slide, which begets herberts C and D to join in….. we're about to get 3 or 4 pages on Paulinho. Paulfuckinginho.

*Slowly removes banstick from velvet bag

Eye think you know what's required...

 

[Klinsmannesque]

The only issue with this is that Arsenal may get more serious as the window goes on, which would make us signing him even more difficult...

I dont really buy into that, I cant believe clubs buy players on a whim, their hand may be forced sooner than they were anticipating, but if say as a hypothetically Arsenal beat us to MS on August 23rd, they probaly would have on July 29th as well.

 

[CockOnBall]

IMO there are very few 'failed' medicals. However all clubs seek to insure the players after the medical is done - and it could well be that the cost of the annual insurance premium plus the players wages make the deal (Plus a transfer fee) too hard to swallow for the buying club, especially FFP targets to meet.

Quite possibly. I only bring up the Ba comparison because there are so many similarities. Similar age, position and fee. He's had 3 moves since his failed medical with Stoke. As you say, it's all about risk assessment. I wouldn't be at all surprised if another club didn't sign him this Summer and were amply reward with 15 plus goals. A risk worth taking but then again, I haven't seen the medical report!

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

*Slowly removes banstick from velvet bag

Pretty harsh to describe the condition of your missus' lady parts like that.

 

[punkisback]

As good as Mason has looked I think we need to be careful that we don't build him up too quickly, like we did with Carroll. Speaking of the latter, I don't think he looks anywhere near good enough if I'm being honest.

Bentaleb certainly has some strong similarities with MS, but he's not at the level of him yet. Schneiderlin is simply a level above any of these options quality wise at the moment but Bentaleb would surely rotate nicely with Schneiderlin in our new look set up IMO.

I think Carroll's QPR move was a few steps back tbh; looked a better player last year. Playing in a CM two with Karl Henry or Joey Barton in the championship with Redknapp managing can't be good for you.

 

[Mr Pink]

I think Carroll's QPR move was a few steps back tbh; looked a better player last year. Playing in a CM two with Karl Henry or Joey Barton in the championship with Redknapp managing can't be good for you.

Yeah good point. He certainly looks to have regressed because of that move. Still not convinced he'd be quite good eough to a regular for us though.

 

[stevenurse]

Hmmm. The last time we signed someone purely on the basis of opening up new commercial channels overseas was Toda. I wish I could erase it from my mind, but sadly it's burnt in like a bad childhood trauma.

Khumalo? Same could be said tbf

 

[25P Tesco Value Ham]

Khumalo? Same could be said tbf

Blast from the past
Mbulelo Mabizela

 

[sickboy_se]

I'd have him back personally, but im a soft fucker

Happens to all of us, mate. Try cutting back on the brew before bedtime!

 

[St José Dominguez]

Re: Green. We moan that we don't pick up players early in career before their price tag increases and/or before facing competition from CL clubs. Then if linked we complain that the player is not what we need right now..

 

[Xeeleeyid]

The only issue with this is that Arsenal may get more serious as the window goes on, which would make us signing him even more difficult...

Yes, but I don't think MS is a 'must have', it s a 'nice to have' and dependent on some of our current CMs moving on. Therefore its less of "we must do everything we can to get him now while Arsenal haven't made their move" and more of "if one of our first-team CMs moves this window and IF we can get MS for a reasonable fee and reasonable wages we'll do it".

At the moment I hope most of our efforts are looking to strengthen our CB position.

 

[Parkie]

I'd suggest that the main difference between MS and Bentaleb/Mason is experieince, I would agree it might well take both the youngsters a season to become as good as MS, so the question becomes 'what's it worth to get the player we want/need a year earlier than we could by developing our own young players'.

If a players + cash deal can be done, we may get MS, otherwise I'm not sure we'll want to pay the amount Southamptoin want

Oddly enough, despite the usual warnings that swap deals and deals involving multiple players tend never to come off, given the number of outgoings at Southampton, I can see them being quite happy with a deal that gets them 2-3 players with some PL experience in. Even if it means they lose another star player.

The fans are already going to be livid with the team that lines up for the first match of the season - the club need to ensure that there are still 11 players to field!

I would imagine that a package of Dawson, Holtby/Capoue, etc could restock some key areas for them - it is not as if they can use the "were not a selling club ... We have ambition to compete" line, is it?!