The Gio Debate

[stemark44]

Some of our fans would be happy for us to sell the likes of Jamie O'Hara who was outstanding for Portsmouth, playing in the Premiership last season.
A local lad and a fan but they think he isn't good enough to play for us because he can't run fast enough.
Jamie has as much talent as Gio and a much,much larger set of balls.
If I had to pick one to sell,it would be an easy choice.

 

[phil]

The problem with phil and others like him is that they seem to have this irrational hatred of someone like Giovani, whom it seems they decided to dislike from the beginning for his exotic name, the "hype" and the appreciation from others that they just cannot live with. The way they gleefully latch on to the rumours and snippets about his off-the-field issues as some kind of proof of their point is laughable, like the ridiculously exaggerrated furore about the late night gathering of the WHOLE Mexico team after the friendly match where GDS was among 13 other players (many of whom were much more senior, incl the captain Marquez) and received one of the smallest fines, suggesting he was guilty of just being there with others.

phil constantly peddles the cliche about GDS not working hard enough, not doing much etc - instead of opening his mind and seeing the much improved work ethics this year. Even in the 45 min on Tuesday he tracked back and won the ball at least several times from the start (dispossessing Wilshere in our half to stop the attack in the first few minutes and dispossessing Vela in the last couple of minutes with good strength and persistence, winning a free kick) - much more than the a lot more experienced Bentley for example, whom same people are quite ready to excuse.

'Irrational hatred'? Not sure it's me who is being irrational.

I don't class public statements by Harry and Keane as being rumours. Either they are not telling the truth (possible with Harry) or there has been problems with Gio's work ethic. I treat itk with a pinch of salt but there has been more about Gio's lifestyle than there has for other players in the squad. The problem with players like Gio who have picked up a certain reputation is that any further incident, such as the Mexico party (where Gio was not a ringleader), just perpetuate peoples view of them.

I don't know if Gio's work ethic has improved this season as you would need to witness training to know that. In the Ratings thread after Tuesday match, I posted that Gio had tracked back and tackled early on in the match but was pretty anonymous after that. I was surprised that he was taken off at half-time (I would have kept him on a bit longer) but you cannot argue with Harry's decision as we were far better after the break.

In the second half in Berne, I didn't see much evidence of this 'improved work ethic' you talk about. He neither tracked back to help Corluka nor made any runs forward. The fans around me were screaming for him to be taken off. Lennon was warming up, presumably to replace Gio, when Defoe got injured.

I am not ready to excuse Bentley. For me, he is far more of a disappointnment than Gio as he cost almost four times as much and had previously performed well in the EPL. The difference is, we do not get interminable threads suggesting Bentley has been badly treated and that we should change our formation to suit him.

You, BC and others seem to believe that Gio has been badly handled and is deserving of special treatment. I disagree with that view. I am sure that everybody on the Forum would love Gio to live up to his hype. He clearly has talent but has not yet reproduced it at club level. With our present squad he is going to get limited opportunities to make an impression, especially now that we are out of the CC. I just can't see where we would play him in a 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1, or 4-5-1 formation. Barring injuries, I doubt if we shall be seeing much more of Gio.

 

[Kendall]

Don't bad mouth Gio or he'll tell his agent on you.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You're right it's not adulation, in the same sense that it's not 'hatred' that viola keeps banging on about, but then he is a special case.

The one thing is though BC, you more than anyone on this site demand the absolute perfect performances from the players and management on a week to week basis. You're constant comments and reports regarding Huddlestone are an example of this, so how in the name of god can you EVER describe one of Giovani's performances for us as 'outstanding'.....?

The mind boggles, the game you are talking about must be Doncaster away in the CC, where GDS did in fact play reasonably well? But 'outstanding', come off it, he wasn't even as good as Bentley that night!

As I said before it all boils down to how you judge what 'excelling' or 'shown us what he is capable of' actually means. For a forward player who was let go by Barcelona for a pittance, has done nothing substantial for us in the limited appearances he has had so far, didn't set the Championship alight, was poor for Galatasary and came away from the World Cup apparently smelling of roses with 0 goals and 0 assists, it would appear the term for that wouldn't come anywhere near 'excelling' would it?

Viola banging on yet again about people 'hating' Giovani and having made their mind up about him and refusing to change their opinion, is no different to the select few like yourself, that are still holding on with every shred that you can that he is going to turn into some kind of superstar and is being unfairly treated, who wont change their opinion.

There's an amazing amount of utter bollocks in the post. If you had read and understood my previous couple of posts you would know that I don't think he's going to be a superstar. The bit of my post that you actually quoted where I said:

I don't think any of us think he has earned a regular starting birth given that we have now also added VDV as well, but I think for most of us we have seen a genuine talent (not stratospheric just pretty good) too promising to discard out of hand - unlike many that warrant it.

I don't think GDS is ever going to be a world beater but I think he could be a decent footballer for a decent side who get the best out of him.

Should have been an indication to you of that. Hardly sycophantic adulation was it. But hey, I'm sure ranting at BC has earned you brownie points with the lemmings.


You riding the white cotton pony ?

 

[tony_parkes]

i think gio needs to be somewhere where he gets a lot of game time and that isn't going to happen with us. redknapp isn't going to play him at the expense of VDV, Lennon, Bale, Defoe, Crouch, Modric and nor should he.

He is the type of player who you have to accommodate into your system, 442 doesn't really do it for him it would seem.

We should sell him and be done with it, he may be a good player elsewhere but I doubt he will end up being the world beater some seem to think.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

But why should he be given a chance on the basis of what he's done elsewhere?

FFS are you pretending to be this incapable of thinking through and processing the simplest of text.

Every player we buy, we buy, and subsequently play, based on what he does elsewhere. If, during his time with us he is (whilst not playing for us much) putting in great performances for his country that show real talent it doesn't mean he gets a guaranteed start in our line up but it means we can see potential and that that potential is being produced under pressure in front of big crowds. A reasonable indication of ability. It doesn't guarantee him anything but you cannot help but form an opinion one way or the other when the evidence is there, which it isn't with Rose who's exposure to the viewing punters like you and me has been minuscule in comparison.

 

[tony_parkes]

Having said the above I did feel sorry for him on Tuesday night, he probably felt it was a good chance to shine and he hardly got a kick.

The midfield was so inept and unbalanced in that 1st half that he didn't get the ball in any areas where he could show what he can do.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

There's an amazing amount of utter bollocks in the post. If you had read and understood my previous couple of posts you would know that I don't think he's going to be a superstar. The bit of my post that you actually quoted where I said:

I don't think any of us think he has earned a regular starting birth given that we have now also added VDV as well, but I think for most of us we have seen a genuine talent (not stratospheric just pretty good) too promising to discard out of hand - unlike many that warrant it.

I don't think GDS is ever going to be a world beater but I think he could be a decent footballer for a decent side who get the best out of him.

Should have been an indication to you of that. Hardly sycophantic adulation was it. But hey, I'm sure ranting at BC has earned you brownie points with the lemmings.


You riding the white cotton pony ?

Who or what are lemmings? I don't need to score points with anyone BC, you mug yourself off constantly without anyone helping you.

If what I wrote was such an 'amazing amount of utter bollocks' why didn't you answer it then? Was it the Doncaster game you were talking about where he wasn't as good as Bentley? Is a return of 1 goal in a year's worth of football for 2 clubs and country a good return for an attacking player?

The 'superstar' thing was directed at viola, but don't let that throw you off the scent of trying to swear your way out of the fact it was you talking 'an amazing amount of utter bollocks.'

 

[adiepf]

giovani dos santos is just not good enough....

even during the world cup he actually only had a few dribbles...he didnt score or create anything at all...he just looked busy...

now of course this is just my opinion but he has been given a chance to shine & has never taken it....he was poor when loaned to ipswich & even poorer when loaned to gala last season....

he slows down play & often passes backwards when he should attack players....i think there is ability in there but im not sure he believes enough in himself...ive seen it plenty of times before, people who are amazing in training but when it comes to the crunch they avoid the ball & look busy.....

the jamie o`hara point is brilliant....ii would take him every time because he has stepped up to the plate on more than one occasion for spurs & pompey through hard work & graft & gio has never ever done that!

 

[sim0n]

Portugal is the best place for him now - best of... :adios:

 

[Michey]

But why should he be given a chance on the basis of what he's done elsewhere?

:rofl:

 

[AngerManagement]

I think the bottom line is this, GDS works with the squad and coaching staff day in day out. If he is good enough and has the right attitude to show what he can do in training he will be given chances, perhaps on the sub bench at first.

There are two variables at play, one wheter or not he is good enough to play in our team and or his style fits in to our league and team and two if he has the attitude and determination to work hard and show that he is both good enough and able to fit in with our team.

If his head goes down from not playing and he feels he is poorly treated which results in him not performing well enough in training..the bottom line is he doesn't have enough determination to make it.

He needs to be both good enough and determined enough to play for us, I have no doubt Redknapp would play him if he could prove himself on the training field.

So to me the fact he rarely plays just represents that thus far he has not proven himself good enough to play and unless he does so soon he will be moved on.

 

[YiddoJames]

I still don't think he's been given a proper chance

Both games he's played in this season have been AWFUL team performances with makeshift teams.

good point

 

[MendD3]

:rofl:

:stupid:

 

[Stoof]

I think he's been given more than enough of a chance.

Maybe it's not a coincidence that the team has played poorly with him in it ...

Both games he's played in this season have been AWFUL team performances with makeshift teams.

I love the fact that it's a Gio + rest of team analysis. As opposed to an overall team analysis as per my point above.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Bale played 25 games for Spurs without a win

Under your logic he would have used up all his chances

 

[Stoof]

Bale played 25 games for Spurs without a win

Under your logic he would have used up all his chances

Not really?

I mean Bale had great games for us, scored and set-up goals for us (from left back).

Gio has never been the best player in a competitive game for us, not even in the top half of best players.

Give it up!

 

[NEVILLEB]

Not really?

I mean Bale had great games for us, scored and set-up goals for us (from left back).

Gio has never been the best player in a competitive game for us, not even in the top half of best players.

Give it up!

Never!

 

[Legacy]

Not really?

I mean Bale had great games for us, scored and set-up goals for us (from left back).

Gio has never been the best player in a competitive game for us, not even in the top half of best players.

Give it up!

I seem to recall him being one of our better players against Shakhtar in the UEFA Cup. He also started really well in the Carling Cup last season before unfortunately picking up an injury.

He looked fantastic in pre-season too. I know you said competitive game, but how many games has he actually started for Spurs? When he starts for us, I'd say he's generally done decent. Not spectacular, but not everybody is capable of hitting the ground running.

Look at Bentley. He had to make do with the odd appearance for a while, looking generally poor for the most part. It was only after Lennon got injured and he was given a run in the team that he was able to get some good form going. You could use the same argument for Bale, Huddlestone and Pavlyuchenko too, in my opinion.

Although I still don't think he'll be at Spurs for too long. Not that he's a bad player, it's just we have an abundance of quality in that area already.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

How the f%ck did we end up keeping Gio and sellind Adel

AT might think he's the greatest player on the planet (you do need a bit of confidence) but he's very unorthodox, is blessed with amazing skill and at some points would no doubt unlock a defence

What a cock-up