The Self Preservation Society

[WexfordTownSpur]

It hit his hand, he gained an advantage from that...but the ref should've spotted it.

He didn't actually attempt to control the ball with his hand.

Nope, I am sorry, he did try to control with his hand, in fact he did it twice! maybe the fist one did hit his hand, but when it wasn't stopping the ball for going out he quite clearly flicked the ball forward with his fingers and then passed it to gain an advantage. Let alone the fact that when he was passed the ball in the first place, 2 players were clearly in an offside position, and then when he passed the ball to the goalscorer, the goalscorer was in an offside position - One of the worst decisions I have seen (except for Carrol of course) but on par!)

BUT, having said this, I do except that there is the ole, some you get some you don't unwritten rule in football - TBH, what really pisses me off is the "seeding". Can someone explain to me what seeding is in International football, and how it isn't just a blatant way for FIFA to include the top teams at the expense of the weaker teams - surly this is the real infringement of Fair Play! maybe this is something that should be looked at by a department of justice..........oh yer, I always forget, as my wife keeps telling me, "It's just a game of football" get on with it will yer!

 

[Dougal]

I agree with Kendall though. From a neutral stand point i dont think he intentially handballed to gain advantage. It happened too quick for him to do it on purpose. Its just the way the human body reacts when the ball is near the arm like that. You instinctively handle it because you dont have time to think about it. I've seen plenty of defenders do similar inside their own box, and feel embarassed after when the penalty is given. They obviously didn't handball it on purpose to give away the penalty. Much like Henry didn't deliberately handball it to set up a goal. Its just unfortunate the ref nor linesman saw it.

But i dont think that incident is really relevant. Ireland weren't screwed last night. If they had, it would have been done in normal time. It was an unfortunate incident and a shame for Ireland because they were excellent.

And I think you believe it too which is fair enough. Kendall is just trolling looking for a reaction.

But I think you argument is wrong. At a push you could use it for the first instance but not a chance on the second and 100% not for both. He cradled the ball to keep it on the pitch. As I said before, if that's not handball what is?

I'm not saying it was a big conspiracy. FIFA are happy yes and they did their bit by moving the goalposts before. We then had a level playing field (in physical terms, not by law), a tête-à-tête (pardon my french), were the better team and got cheated. That is my problem with it.

 

[cabinfever]

But i dont think that incident is really relevant.Ireland weren't screwed last night. If they had, it would have been done in normal time. It was an unfortunate incident and a shame for Ireland because they were excellent.

I do agree it was an error by the officials to miss the offside and both hand balls, rather than a giant plan, however, I disagree, while the first may have been instinctive, the second handball was deliberate.

 

[Kendall]

What are you, the Mike Parry of Spurs Community? He does it to encourage revenue for the station through people ringing in and telling him he is talking absolute shit. He has a purpose. There's no-one ringing in to SC Kendall, what's your purpose? WUM.

What a fucking **** I am for giving an opinion that differs from yours.

 

[Dougal]

What a fucking **** I am for giving an opinion that differs from yours.

Well it's good to know we don't always disagree on an outcome even if how we got there by differing means.

 

[Kendall]

My post/opinion on the incident is a perfectly valid one and actually one mil1ion and a couple of others have agreed with.

OK, so I've riled you and yours a bit in the other thread, but don't let it spill into this one, Mr Moderator.

 

[Dougal]

My post/opinion on the incident is a perfectly valid one and actually one mil1ion and a couple of others have agreed with.

OK, so I've riled you and yours a bit in the other thread, but don't let it spill into this one, Mr Moderator.

Don't even bother with the moderator bit.

 

[AngerManagement]

I agree in as far as more blame should be put on the officals (to an extent) one of the ref or his linesman should certainly have seen the incident, they are professionals and this was the big call they needed to make....they got it wrong and it is a huge injustice.

However, I think the opinion that Henry did not intentional handle the ball is an incorrect one. There was clearly movement hand to ball, even should you discount the intial contact (give him the benefit of the doubt) in which he cusioned the ball with part of his forearm, there was further movement from his wrist and hand which he used to direct the ball back into a postion in which he could deliver the ball to Galls with his foot.

Now this could be labelled as instinctive, well I would counter that by saying a FOOTballer trains day in day out for years and years and develops footballing instincts that does not including using the hand to control or manipulate the ball in anyway, with that in mind I would suggest it was opportunistic rather than instinctive.

I personally feel there is little doubt he intentionally handled the ball to gain an advantage. He saw the opportunity to send his nation to the world cup and he took a chance i.e. go for it and put the ball in the refs court, much like Anelka tried when he dived minutes ealier.

So rather than debating wheter or not Henry intended to handle the ball (which in my opinion there is little doubt) I would call for focus as to what would you have done put in the same postion.

As much as I dislike Henry from his time at Arsenal and his general arrogant cheesy persona (and being half Irish myself), what occured last night is he was put in a postion with a decision to make in a split second, the ball hand slightly ran away from him but he was in the danger zone and had a simple pass to make to set up a goal and send France to a world cup should he be able to get the ball under control.

I think the real justification for what Henry did was the time in which he had to make a decision what to do it was split second thinking and I can't genuinely blame him for taking a risk to do what he did, it was up to the ref to decide to rule out the goal.

After all how many of us would have been complaining had Keane found himself in the same postion in a Spurs shirt in a game to win us CL qualification or a cup final? I am sure we would all have been delighted to see him turn to ball onto Kings head for the win.

It's wrong yes, but I think you could use the lack of reaction time as well as instinct and or opportunism to justify what happened and as a result the majority of the blame should be shoulder by the match officals and this is further evidence for the need to introduce video replays for such important decisions.

 

[Adam456]

I was going to bounce my 'video technology and retrospective action' thread last night when I got home from the pub but was too tired !

On the gist of conspiracies - in general I don't think there is one but the sudden decision to seed looked bad and last night's decision made it look worse. The mere fact that people talk about it shows just what affect it has.

On video replays - anybody who remembers my thread knows what I think. I hope those who continue to scoff at replays have another little think after last night. I was watching as a complete neutral (I have loads of Irish friends and wanted to see Keano in the WC but my parents live in France and we have loads of French friends and I sit next to a French guy at work) but I felt absolutely robbed at the end. A great footballing spectacle counted for zero in the end due to an absolutely awful decision.

On Henry, dishonesty and retrospective action - we obviously can't bring in a rule and then apply it to previous incidents - we have to draw a line e.g. start of next season. We need to brief the players fully on what is expected in terms of sportsmanship and honesty and make it quite clear that blatant transgression of that will be SEVERELY punished. An incident last night or, for instance, Carroll at Old Trafford should bring a 1-year ban. There's just no place for it. It's not like having a game of pool with a mate in the pub and not declaring touching a ball by accident !

And on the sports psychology point - yes we'll never know whether we'd have won that game before the Carrick/Gomes incident (since none of us are clairvoyant or whatever you have to be to predict an outcome based on something that didn't happen anyway).

Anybody who says we shouldn't be bothered as 'they would have won anyway' might as well just give up watching sport.

 

[Rumbaldo]

He should have owned up!

He would of been hung drawn and quartered by the french if he had owned up.

 

[cabinfever]

On Henry, dishonesty and retrospective action - we obviously can't bring in a rule and then apply it to previous incidents - we have to draw a line e.g. start of next season. .

That's right, you can't change the rules in the middle of a tournament......... oh, wait..........yes you can, if it looks like the "big" teams might not go through.

 

[tRiKS]

couple of days afterwards and i've softened to the whole thing. I'm starting to sway towards the arguement that the hand balls were karma payback for Louis Walsh and Jedward.

 

[ultimateloner]

Victory is more important than integrity and sportsmanship. This isn't just true of sport, its true of everything and it has always been like this.

I think Henry has done the right thing as a French player. He has done what he needs to help his team, at the cost of his reputation. He should be considered a cult hero, but now his country is screaming for his head. I hate that hypocrysy - France is the beneficiary and is trying to find a scapegoat.

 

[DC_Boy]

re Henry's status - it didn't seem to do Maradona much harm in his homeland when he punched in the goal against England

and that was in a bigger game - a world cup quarter final - with Argentina going on to win the tournament (I don't anticipate France winning the WC) and England would have had a massively good chance of winning the tournament had they not been so cruelly cheated - and Maradona's punch was probably even more blatant cheating than Henry's handball - though certainly Henry's second touch was a blatant 'hand control' and not accidental at all (IMHO)

 

[Kendall]

DC Boy! where have you been all my life?

 

[DC_Boy]

DC Boy! where have you been all my life?

Hi Kendall

Am still an avid reader, but tend not to be too popular with some/many on this site, so am keeping the posts down to a few

to be fair I know I overdo the posts at times and the 'i told you so' stuff

so in the interests of everyone's sanity and blood pressures trying to keep the posting levels down

 

[kingofspurs]

I always enjoy your posts DC_Boy, so don't hold back too much fella!

 

[Gilzeanking]

What surprises me about all the coverage of the Henry incident and in here too I see...

....is that noone has pointed out that this couldn't have happened in the Europa Cup(ex-UEFA) . I attended a match recently...they have three refs . Its an experiment the authorities are running . The other two refs hang about in the respective penalty areas .

Henry would have practically crashed into a ref where he handballed .

and don't be intimidated DC , always a bit of rough and tumble in here.

 

[3Dnata]

I don't know about couldn't have happened inthe Europa cup. I've seen at least two penalty area farce's involving Fulham.
As for the Maradona point by DC who it is always good to hear from, you have to bear in mind that was Argentina against England with all the history-cheating against Ireland is a bit like mugging a granny.
I think Henry's totally dishonest attempts at calling for a replay show that he's fearing the affects on sponsors-should be interesting to see how Gillette take this.
There comes a point though like with the Mendes goal against Manu you've just got to let go.

 

[lifeof...]

It does make me laugh, the hypocricy and hyperbole that this type of thing produces, how Henry is vilified. There are injustices in nearly every game played. It is part of the game. And Obviously when those injustice are critical ones, they highlight the injustices and weakness of the “game”. And I support the call for video tech to become part of the game.

But what has Henry done. He has handled the ball, So what? All Players seek to gain unfair advantages all the time in football, the greater crimes is diving, as this not only is trying to gain an unfair advantage, the pen or free kick. But is also getting an opposition player booked or sent off for doing nothing. A double cheat if you will, where as handling the ball, pulling, pushing etc is a singular cheat.

It is not up to Henry to ref the game. The player should not be so castrated for this, If you want to complain and or blame, this should clearly be aimed at the official/s. for not seeing and giving the hand ball. Its not Henrys “fault” it is bad officialing “fault”

Its also worth remembering he didn’t score with his hand, where were the defense?

The crys for replays, the if the goal had been disallowed we would in the WC..etc.

Whilst we all know the replay was never going to be, IMO, the IFA calling for it, whilst makes them look like spoilt petulant kids, with the “it’s the only just and fair thing to do” kind of rallying call, is just plain silly and hypocrisy in its purest form. Where were theses replay calls in the Irish need for only winning fairly and justly when Ireland played Georgia, and the ludicrous penalty awarded to Ireland? Which was more unjust? The greater injustice between these two is at least arguable, which makes them of the same stature. But all they BOTH are, are examples of poor officialing.

Had the goal not stood, it was still 1-1(over 2 legs) with potentially lots of time to play and even pens to decide the outcome of the game. So it’s a little silly to shout we would have won etc.

Why not just blame Oshea( I think it was him) who should have scored earlier with a fairly easy chance, And there by winning the match?

The simple reason that Ireland are not going to the world cup, is not because of Henry, it is not because of poor officialing, It is because they were not good enough to get through the qualifying stages.

The only thing I do think is wrong, is the decision to seed the play off games. I think its wrong, only because this was a change in the competition format, after the competition had started. And that is just plain wrong.


Edited to UN bold it