The Self Preservation Society

[tony_parkes]

After the disgraceful way that France scored their handball winner tonight and book their place in the world cup finals it got me thinking.

FIFA / UEFA changed the play offs when they feared that they might have a World Cup without France and Portugal and the stars that those teams hold. A world cup without Ronaldo and Henry? Let's seed those teams to give those players a better chance of being there, it doesn't matter that the rules stated at the start of the qulifying campaign that the play off teams would be drawn at random, the reality is that they might not qualify and that would lessen the appeal of our tournament so let's change the rules at the last minute to assist them and make sure these world stars can grace SA 2010.

France's dubious winner only backs this theory up further.

The Sky 4 get more decisions and allowances than other teams in the Premier League, how often do United concede a penalty at home or score a last minute winner?

How many times do Spurs or other teams miss out on the crucial decisions in the big games?

Is our beloved game all a big fix, with the authorities making sure the supposed cream (soured) rise to the top as often as possible.

I'm not an Ireland fan, that's not the reason for this rant, but it seems that club and international football is becoming so predictable, a handful of teams eat at the top table and the rest can only bask in glorious failure having given the big boys a good game and then lost to a contentious referreing decision.

Anyway, are you Paddy's supporting us English now after we supported you?

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

I think its all in the imagination of whoever happens to get the wrong end of a decision on that particular day at that particular time.

We always think we're hard done by and the press hates us, so do Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and every team thats ever played football ever.



Itr says more about the victim mentality in this country than anything else. Its why that girl i like is interested in that other bloke, its not because im a twat and slept with her best mate, its actually a conspiricy against me orchestrated by the illuminati

True fact.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Hhhhhm, I think Ireland were hardly done by tonight, very hardly done by and have watched Spurs suffer at the hands of numerous poor decisions against the 'big boys' as have other teams but I do think not having that edge in key moments can often masquerade itself as bad luck on many occasions.

The game tonight should have been put to bed by the Irish, but they didn't and the French got a fecking lucky decision. Unfortunate but they shouldn't have needed that decision if you look at it in the cold light of day.

 

[mattdefoe]

the world cup seedings was changed for them? At the end of the day robbie keane for example would of done the same, Cause its france we hate it, Ireland lost the game in the first leg and wernt exactly through at1-1 though yes they had a chance.

 

[Booney]

You can take the cheating scum out of Arsenal but you can't take Arsenal out of the cheating scum.

 

[Kendall]

Henry isn't the ref.

 

[sheringmann]

People tend to forget that Utd is mostly the superior team and THUS will have more chances in the closing stages of a game as they pile up pressure....and seriously....how many minutes do the opposition actually spend inside the penalty box at Old Trafford..not much...thats why no penalties against...

I'm not saying corruption is out of football (look at Italy 3 years ago), but come on guys...It can't be that bad...

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I don't think the game is one big fix at all. That would have to be one helluva conspiracy involving so many people that it would surely get out. I just can't see it.

Having said that, FIFA left themselves open to the accusation when they meddled with the format of the draw for the play-offs. As you say, that reeks of favouritism but FIFA is like a closed clique full of self serving officials so what can you expect? The anger/feelings or voice of the common fan is seldom heard let alone acted upon.

As for the game being predictable, I think that mainly exists in our PL and I suppose it's down to the clubs to raise their game to catch up and that's a vicious circle in itself what with the Sky 4 getting more and more money every year, winning more an more of the trophies and getting bigger and bigger all the while. That's why the Cardiff v Pompey FA Cup final was so refreshing, it was like the competition was given back to the fan, just for a moment.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when one of the elite fails to qualify for the CL, if anyone this season it's likely to be Liverpool and even then, one season out might not make an immediate impact but fail twice in succession and they come back into the chasing pack. Hopefully.

What can be done to address it? Not much I guess. To UEFA's credit, they are looking (the last I heard), to reduce the number of CL places to 3. That's a good place to start. Personally, i'd be strongly in favour of European Football returning to the old format of UEFA Cup, European Cup and Cup Winners Cup but that' as likely to happen as me getting some sack time with Kate Winslet, Holly Willoughby and a dwarf dressed as a Japanese Admiral.

The root of all this evil?

Money.

 

[tRiKS]

Henry is a cock and last night further qualified that fact but any querstion of a life ban or a replay is silly. I'd like to see a chacnge in policy so he can be punished of course but i'm not sure i'd act any differnely to him in that situatuion. The officals were as much to blame and i think it stemed form the Anelka penalty/dive descision, someone had a word and the 4th official probably after replay thought France had a case and let the ref know about it.

Despite having no irish blood i have a very good reason to be gutted as a mate of mine would have bene in the Irish world cup squad and tickets to games in SA were a certainty

 

[mil1lion]

Generally speaking, the top 4 teams win games because they have the better players. Every team has some form of home advantage. Thats in large down to the fans, and the more fans there are (like Old Trafford), the more chance the decisions will go their way. I dont think United would get as many decisions if they played in front of 30k fans tbh. But we get just as much home advantage as most teams. It comes down to who has the better players though.

Take the loss to United last season for example. The penalty decision was wrong, but at the end of the day, they won the game because they outplayed us after that. They have genuine world class players and we bottled it under pressure. So while a decision turned the tide of the game, they still had the better players and went on to score 4 more. So more often than not, the League is correct as far as who is better and who is not.

 

[AngerManagement]

Personally I would just like to see the use of video replays for matter such as questionable goals and penalties.

Maybe have a set up like Tennis in which a team has a set amount of challanges for a decision per half and lose a challange everytime the make an incorrect challange or simply like rugby/cricket where the ref counsults the video officals whenever he is not 100% sure.

I don't subcribe to all this talk of it slowing down the game, in my personal opinion it actually serves to add to the excitment of rugby so don't see why this would not be the case with football.

It would bring things down to matter of facts, level the playing fields and go a long way to elimanting injustices such as last night.

If a goal is scored and there is a question of offside, handball or wheter it went over the line etc...the ref could simply consult his video officals and in a short time the result would be conclusive (same with penalties)

To ensure continuity, if the game was still flowing a flag should be raised on the play so to speak, like in American Football where both teams continue to play and with the next natural break of play the flagged up issue can be assessed. So if I goal had been scored but ref was not sure it went over the line and the defending team broke up the other end and scored their goal would be the break in play, if the previous goal was over the line that would count and the break away goal would not if not naturally the break away goal would stand.

It would have took barely more time to consult a video offical and have him determine Henry handled the ball yesterday as it did to get Given back in his goal and the Irish team ready to kick off.

With such high stakes involved in top flight and international football these days it really seems crazy to me that the powers that be seem so resistant to introducing such technologies.

It would change the game at first, but then so did the subsitution when it was first introduced as did the no back pass rule both examples are now something we take for granted as part of the game. If video replays were introduced now within 5 years we would all barely remember the game without them and I don't see how it would damage the intregity of the game at all (if anything it would enhance it)

Its all well and good saying these things even themselves out but they clearly do not. All hyperthectical of course but what if Carrick's penatly had not been given last season? perhaps we would have held on to our lead, perhaps Liverpool would have won the league. In the season in which we last fourth place on the final day there were lead up games Arsenal had to win to even be in with a chance to overtake us (man city for one I believe) in which they scored questionable goals to win the game and ultimately we lost out where with such technology things could have been differnt. (to name only a couple of examples)

 

[AngerManagement]

Take the loss to United last season for example. The penalty decision was wrong, but at the end of the day, they won the game because they outplayed us after that. They have genuine world class players and we bottled it under pressure. So while a decision turned the tide of the game, they still had the better players and went on to score 4 more. So more often than not, the League is correct as far as who is better and who is not.

What you say is true, but you are leaving out the psycological impact the decision had on both sets of players. Man U have better players yes, but they were not performing at all until they got that goal, we will never know if they would have still rallied the way they did had they gone a further 10 mins with us in control of the game.

Our players bottled it no question, but again we will never know if they would have collosped in such a fashion had they not felt so agrieved and had the wind knock out of them by the decision. Old Trafford is a hard place to get a result, mental issues play a big part in any top flight sport in my opinion and while professionals on the money they are on should never bottle it in that way it does not detract from the issue that the penatly was a key turning point and it is very possible (if not probable) that events would have panned out very differntly had the penalty not been given.

A counter arguement could suggest that Palacios should have been sent off previously and we would have been playing with 10 men but then a decision like yellow card/red card offence is alot more subjective than a was it wasn't it issue like penalty or goal....so these should be left to the descression of the ref, unlike (in my opinion) questionable goals and penalties.

 

[Welshiespursboyo]

Henry isn't the ref.

No but he is a cheating french gooner twat bastard dickface. :-|

 

[Kendall]

No but he is a cheating french gooner twat bastard dickface. :-|

It hit his hand, he gained an advantage from that...but the ref should've spotted it.

He didn't actually attempt to control the ball with his hand.

 

[Welshiespursboyo]

He should have owned up! But loads of footballers are cheating scumbags these days. And I disagree - I think he was aware of what he was doing.

Although of course it could be my anti-Thierry Henry, anti-gooner scum, side talking!

;-)

 

[Peters]

It hit his hand, he gained an advantage from that...but the ref should've spotted it.

He didn't actually attempt to control the ball with his hand.

It was hand to ball twice. The first time may have been accidental, but the second was deliberate. It is still cheating.

The problem is that some people find cheating acceptable and while honesty and integrity used to be standards required by society, times have changed.

 

[nightgoat]

It hit his hand, he gained an advantage from that...but the ref should've spotted it.

He didn't actually attempt to control the ball with his hand.

Except the second handball... :wink:

 

[Dougal]

It hit his hand, he gained an advantage from that...but the ref should've spotted it.

He didn't actually attempt to control the ball with his hand.

What are you, the Mike Parry of Spurs Community? He does it to encourage revenue for the station through people ringing in and telling him he is talking absolute shit. He has a purpose. There's no-one ringing in to SC Kendall, what's your purpose? WUM.

 

[mil1lion]

I agree with Kendall though. From a neutral stand point i dont think he intentially handballed to gain advantage. It happened too quick for him to do it on purpose. Its just the way the human body reacts when the ball is near the arm like that. You instinctively handle it because you dont have time to think about it. I've seen plenty of defenders do similar inside their own box, and feel embarassed after when the penalty is given. They obviously didn't handball it on purpose to give away the penalty. Much like Henry didn't deliberately handball it to set up a goal. Its just unfortunate the ref nor linesman saw it.

But i dont think that incident is really relevant. Ireland weren't screwed last night. If they had, it would have been done in normal time. It was an unfortunate incident and a shame for Ireland because they were excellent.

 

[cabinfever]

It hit his hand, he gained an advantage from that...but the ref should've spotted it.

He didn't actually attempt to control the ball with his hand.

Less of the shit stirring, please.