The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

[Xeeleeyid]

Strange one is Berchiche. He was a real stand out at U18 level for us, really solid defender. We let him go and I was sure we hadn't heard the last of him. I kept a eye on what he was up to and, to be honest, for three or four years the answer was - not much. He was playing lower league or making sporadic appearances for Sociedad. All of a sudden, with Berchiche in his late twenties, he seems to have finally started to fulfil his potential. Good luck to him.

Look at Vardy too. He looks a real top level striker and didn't look out of his depth in England Vs Germany - he's 29 and was playing for Halifax Town a few years ago!

 

[spursfan77]

I suspect this has been done to death over the years, but after seeing the phrase “men against boys” a few times when reading about the u18´s anhiliation at the hands of Chelsea, I thought I´d check the birth dates of the respective squads.

The well known theory is that, the world over, elite level youth teams are packed with boys born in the first few months of the eligible year; those who at the young ages that they are first spotted and recruited have a significant physical advantage. Once “in the system” they receive the best coaching and development opportunities, so their comparative advantage persists even as the initial physical edge becomes less significant over time.

So in most countries, with a cut off date of 1st January, youth teams tend to be biased towards boys born January to April; in England, with a cut off date of 1st September, birth dates from September to December are favoured.

Here is a summary of the results for Chelsea and Spurs U18 squads. Source was soccerway.com squad listings. A few lads did not have a birth date listed so the figures are not 100% complete – but close. It´s a small sample, but the results were interesting.

Chelsea: of 36 players listed, 20 were born in the first 3 months (sept to nov); 30 were born in the first 6 months (sept to feb)

Spurs: of 33 players, 12 were born in sept to nov; 22 in sept to feb.

Also note: the vast majority of players are English. Of the few European players, there was a bias towards the early months of the calender year – i.e. January to april - the favoured months for boys from those countries to hop aboard the fast-track train.

So both squads show the expected bias, but Chelsea´s much more markedly – possibly indicating that Spurs selection is more skewed to technical characteristics than physical attributes. And yes, I suspect it is possible to come back and note that Chelsea´s crop also seem to display more technical skill – no doubt down to a mixture of prime-cut selection and excellent training - but to me the fascinating and unavoidable conclusion has to be that if the FA had a qualification date of 1st jan, Chelsea would probably still be sweeping the board – but with a different set of players!

I must admit I was rather surprised at the results – small sample notwithstanding. This is such a well known phenomenem that I would have thought academies would be taking it into account. So another conclusion is that the various aims of various acadamies do not necessitate a change to current practice. If it ain´t broke don´t fix it.

It's been said previously that something we do is target players born later on the year as there is less competition for their signatures at an early age. I can't remember where I read it, I'm assuming it was on SC or COYS. I think it was in an interview with McDermott.

Edit: I see @IGSpur already covered it. I didn't think I'd dreamt it up!

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Strange one is Berchiche. He was a real stand out at U18 level for us, really solid defender. We let him go and I was sure we hadn't heard the last of him. I kept a eye on what he was up to and, to be honest, for three or four years the answer was - not much. He was playing lower league or making sporadic appearances for Sociedad. All of a sudden, with Berchiche in his late twenties, he seems to have finally started to fulfil his potential. Good luck to him.

I don't remember much about him other than his disaster of a loan to Cheltenham when he got himself axed after a terror tackle which led to him being sent back by I think Martin Allen at the time he didn't last long at Spurs after that

 

[Lemon]

Strange one is Berchiche. He was a real stand out at U18 level for us, really solid defender. We let him go and I was sure we hadn't heard the last of him. I kept a eye on what he was up to and, to be honest, for three or four years the answer was - not much. He was playing lower league or making sporadic appearances for Sociedad. All of a sudden, with Berchiche in his late twenties, he seems to have finally started to fulfil his potential. Good luck to him.

Yeah I recall he was standout at a tournament early on with us, if memory serves. Then thought he was homesick, hence his release.

Also thought we let him join sociedad, but must have heard he'd joined them later and confused the memories.

 

[Spurzinho]

I don't remember much about him other than his disaster of a loan to Cheltenham when he got himself axed after a terror tackle which led to him being sent back by I think Martin Allen at the time he didn't last long at Spurs after that

Yeh, I remember thinking it was a bit rich of Allen. Anyone who remembers the playing career of "Mad Dog" will know what I'm talking about. Berchiche was young and still learning he didn't deserve to be frozen out.

 

[Cheltenham Spur]

Yeh, I remember thinking it was a bit rich of Allen. Anyone who remembers the playing career of "Mad Dog" will know what I'm talking about. Berchiche was young and still learning he didn't deserve to be frozen out.

I can't argue about Allen as he was a complete tosser.

However I've got friends who work for Cheltenham Town and have it on very good authority that Berchiche had completely the wrong attitude.

Indeed most fans of the time will have him as first choice in their worst XI.

 

[Spurzinho]

I can't argue about Allen as he was a complete tosser.

However I've got friends who work for Cheltenham Town and have it on very good authority that Berchiche had completely the wrong attitude.

Indeed most fans of the time will have him as first choice in their worst XI.

Fair enough.

 

[Blake Griffin]

edwards on the bench again for england.

edit: unused sub, again :/

 

[teok]

ENG u21's vs GER tonight (6.45 on bt). Looks like winks is in the squad. Might have a watch.

http://www.thefa.com/news/2017/mar/16/england-under-21s-squad-aidy-boothroyd-germany-denmark-160317

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Strange one is Berchiche. He was a real stand out at U18 level for us, really solid defender. We let him go and I was sure we hadn't heard the last of him. I kept a eye on what he was up to and, to be honest, for three or four years the answer was - not much. He was playing lower league or making sporadic appearances for Sociedad. All of a sudden, with Berchiche in his late twenties, he seems to have finally started to fulfil his potential. Good luck to him.

Didn't he get player of the tournament in one of the international tournaments he played in for one of our academy sides ?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

KWP out of England U20 squad.

Do we know why ?

 

[Blake Griffin]

ENG u21's vs GER tonight (6.45 on bt). Looks like winks is in the squad. Might have a watch.

http://www.thefa.com/news/2017/mar/16/england-under-21s-squad-aidy-boothroyd-germany-denmark-160317

pickford; holgate, stephens, mawson, chillwell; chalobah, winks, baker; murphy, gray, abraham

ko at 7.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Do we know why ?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSCBL_jBI0b/

'slight injury'

 

[IGSpur]

edwards on the bench again for england.

edit: unused sub, again :/

Tbf it worked well. Looks like we sat back against Spain and got the 3-0. Mount as a no.10 probably has a slightly all-round better game, but Edwards going forward is more dangerous, as we know. Same with Willock when compared to Mount

 

[IGSpur]

England u18s beat Qatar u19s 2-1 Shashoua got a goal and an assist

 

[mpickard2087]

Winks has probably been England's most technically assured player so far, but that isn't saying much as they have been schooled for long spells of the first half (1-0 down) and offered very little tbh.

 

[kmk]

pickford; holgate, stephens, mawson, chillwell; chalobah, winks, baker; murphy, gray, abraham

ko at 7.

Very few of that team are playing regular games in the PL compared to the German U21 lineup. It's also disappointing that Chalobah is playing in the middle instead of Winks who is stuck on the right. Boothroyd out.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Tbf it worked well. Looks like we sat back against Spain and got the 3-0. Mount as a no.10 probably has a slightly all-round better game, but Edwards going forward is more dangerous, as we know. Same with Willock when compared to Mount

that doesn't explain why he didn't play in the first game, nor why he's not even coming off the bench ahead of someone like isaac buckley-ricketts. he's gone from being the standout star of this team to being an unused sub and his place has been taken by kids from lower age groups. i thought the international break would be good for him to get some game time again seeing as he's gone from being professional footballer to professional trainer this season but he can't even get a game for england now either.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Very few of that team are playing regular games in the PL compared to the German U21 lineup. It's also disappointing that Chalobah is playing in the middle instead of Winks who is stuck on the right. Boothroyd out.

winks is playing cm but he's drifting out to the right quite a bit trying to find space to get on the ball.

 

[paulcumpstone]

England have been woeful. Haven't looked organised at all. No pressure or shape.