The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

[spurs9]

same goes for ccv with us supposedly looking at the 19 year old argentine cb.

I don't think Foyth affects CCV. From the looks of style of play, he seems more of a Dier back up in a 3-4-2-1, in that he is very comfortable on the ball and can play in CM. CCV, for me, is a Toby back up.

I think we will even see more of 4-2-3-1 to 3-4-2-1 transitional play next season and I think this is our long term thinking. In fact, I think one of the reasons we are looking at Barkley is because we see him as a CM that can transition into AM (or vice versa).

 

[Krafty]

Litmus test with the right back position. I thought KWP looked very good in the worlds, even though he was on the left, he's now at the age that he should be able to cover against lesser opposition, and we have someone like Dier who could offer more experienced cover if we are up against one of the top teams and trippier is injured.

Get another right back in and I think that will be the beginning of the end for KWP, almost similar for Onomah if another standard CM is brought in. They just wouldn't get games (and I don't think josh should be played as an AM)

My gut makes me feel Poch will promote little Kyle and Josh, Barkley or the like will provide competition for one of the AM slots, and we still won't have any decent out and out winger options

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I don't think Trippier will be here for long tbh.

 

[coys200]

Pereira situation with KWP is really interesting.Also interesting that pereira KWP Rose are all very similar all could easily play as out and out wingers ,something you couldn't really say about walker,maybe another reason poch got rid.
But imo pereira could defo play as a winger/AM and not look out of place.So he could almost dove tail with KWP in the understudy role.What is very noticeable is how flexible our squad is.We have very few players that just play one position ,possibly wanyama but even he can play CB if really neede.Theres literally nobody else ,even Kane can play the no10 role.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

We aren't privy to what goes on within Poch's mind. We have to choose what we believe to be the case and then accept it's implications. Either Poch is willing and able to give youngsters a chance if they prove certain things in training, or Poch is reluctant or unwilling to give youngsters a chance no matter what they do in training.

The first implies that there is more all of the youngsters could do to push themselves into contention & that when they do they will get the opportunity. The second implies the opposite.

Players like Winks, Bentaleb, Mason, Dier & Alli were all young(ish) and had a lot to prove but Poch gave them a shot, so we know that the manager isn't Redknapp/AVB level distrustful of the youngsters. We know at Southampton & Espanyol that Poch wasn't at all reticent when it came to throwing youngsters in. Now, you could argue that in both cases that was due to necessity but I would argue that there have been times in the last couple of seasons where we needed reinforcements. Clearly there are senior players that have lost Poch's trust; Sissoko, Wimmer & GKN to mention but the three most recent and Poch, for what ever reason didn't give the youngsters a chance.

Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see but I can't imagine that Poch is holding back players that would aid his system, our performances and our chances of success. He must genuinely believe that there is something that seperates your Harry Winks from your Josh Onomah & your, barely trusted, Kevin Wimmer from your CCV and your, frankly, god awful Jansson from your Shayon Harrison.

There's a whole load of separate player issues bundled into that post, that have good and bad connotations, but don't really correlate to support one clear thesis about Poch and integration of academy players. Does Poch play youngish players? yes. What none of those players represent is an example of Pochettino bringing through a player from our academy, with no senior experience anywhere and establishing him as a first team player.

Harry Winks is the only Spurs academy player with no first team miles on the clock, that Poch could have said to have brought through development process to first team, and he got what 2/3 league starts (?) last season, when we had to watch Dier plod around midfield and Dembele take about 6 months to reach match fitness. And we didn't even get to see Onomah start a game, even in the cup, in his proper position, or make it onto the pitch when we are 3,4,5.6 nil up.

It's no more about choosing to believe when it comes to academy players than it is about any first team players, we don't see any of them train. What we do know is that if they didn't have the aptitude they wouldn't be anywhere near first team training because Poch does not suffer fools. What we have seen is all of them, first team and academy players play. So we make all our judgements based on that.

I've not really banged on or complained much about CCV or Harrison, because based on what I've seen of them I don't think they have the potential that Onomah and KWP do.

But players this talented need proper chances, which is where we started this with your statement that they need to "step up and prove it" and "come good". How can they do this unless they are given a proper chance. And that doesn't mean one game every three months in a make shift team out of position. That isn't a chance. They need more than that. French, German and Spanish kids are all getting much more than that, which is why we are constantly buying their kids. I haven't seen a French or German 19/20yo better than KWP or Onomah in their respective positions. But I've seen a lot more French and German 19/20yo's playing first team football.

What I would like is for Poch to step up and prove he has the balls to trust his coaching and training and give a couple of extremely talented and dedicated kids proper chances in their correct positions more often. Hell. we do it with purchased players all the time. Its the only way they stand any chance of stepping up and coming good.

 

[IGSpur]

Litmus test with the right back position. I thought KWP looked very good in the worlds, even though he was on the left, he's now at the age that he should be able to cover against lesser opposition, and we have someone like Dier who could offer more experienced cover if we are up against one of the top teams and trippier is injured.

Get another right back in and I think that will be the beginning of the end for KWP, almost similar for Onomah if another standard CM is brought in. They just wouldn't get games (and I don't think josh should be played as an AM)

My gut makes me feel Poch will promote little Kyle and Josh, Barkley or the like will provide competition for one of the AM slots, and we still won't have any decent out and out winger options

Completely forgot about Dier being able to fill in there. Perfect.

I say use KWP in preseason. Trippier starts Prem, KWP gets the cups to see how he is coping, if he is struggling then Dier can play RB.

I don't think Trippier will be here for long tbh.

As in you expect him to leave by end of next season if so why?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Fucking typical, took me all day to type that response to Spurzinho (been really busy, dipping in and out on my phone whilst sitting on the bog or getting a break from doing stuff etc, trying to word it right) finally sit down and finish it off and realise @IGSpur had nailed it about 4 hours ago.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

As in you expect him to leave by end of next season if so why?

He'll be nearly 28, and I wouldn't be surprised if Pereira overtakes him (providing he signs). He'll also be 1 year into a new contract so we should get decent money for him.

 

[spurs9]

As well as LB.

Just to reiterate Pereira's versatility, as well as RB, LB, & RW , he also played 17 games a s a Striker for Portugal U21s and scored 7 goals and got 5 assists, including 2 goal vs Netherlands U21s and a goal and an assist (as well as an assist to an assist) vs Germany U21s, just 2 years ago.

If we are going to sign a RB, he is the best option in order not to effect KWPs chances IMO.

 

[littlewilly]

The current front page of the UEFA U19 site is interesting. Coincidence?
http://www.uefa.com/under19/index.html

 

[IGSpur]

Fucking typical, took me all day to type that response to Spurzinho (been really busy, dipping in and out on my phone whilst sitting on the bog or getting a break from doing stuff etc, trying to word it right) finally sit down and finish it off and realise @IGSpur had nailed it about 4 hours ago.

Took me an age too, yours, as ever, reads a lot better though haha

 

[IGSpur]

Just to reiterate Pereira's versatility, as well as RB, LB, & RW , he also played 17 games a s a Striker for Portugal U21s and scored 7 goals and got 5 assists, including 2 goal vs Netherlands U21s and a goal and an assist (as well as an assist to an assist) vs Germany U21s, just 2 years ago.

If we are going to sign a RB, he is the best option in order not to effect KWPs chances IMO.

Sounds a very good squad player. How good is he on the wings?

 

[IGSpur]

He'll be nearly 28, and I wouldn't be surprised if Pereira overtakes him (providing he signs). He'll also be 1 year into a new contract so we should get decent money for him.

Good points

 

[agrdavidsfan]

I think we are at the moment after the luck with Kane and co we are guility of really over rating some of our youth prospects if KWP was the messiah that many believe him to be you would think Poch would at least have given him some game time by now like edwards and co.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

I don't think Trippier will be here for long tbh.

always thought he was a transitional signing until kwp is promoted when he joined us

 

[Cornpattbuck]

I think we are at the moment after the luck with Kane and co we are guility of really over rating some of our youth prospects if KWP was the messiah that many believe him to be you would think Poch would at least have given him some game time by now like edwards and co.

You know he's officially been moved into the first team squad now and just won the U20 World Cup, right?! Not everything has to be rushed in football...

P.S. No one's saying he's the messiah, he's just a proper nawty boy who could become a very good wing back.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

You know he's officially been moved into the first team squad now and just won the U20 World Cup, right?! Not everything has to be rushed in football...

P.S. No one's saying he's the messiah, he's just a proper nawty boy who could become a very good wing back.

I am not bashing KWP, what I am saying is the people who are having a go that we are going to buy another right back instead of promoting KWP need to calm down.

He's obviously not quite ready for the step up yet, he's talented yes but he's got a huge amount to do before he's considered a second choice right back for us.

 

[danielneeds]

always thought he was a transitional signing until kwp is promoted when he joined us

I think that's poppycock. Trippier was signed because of his outstanding metrics and creativity.

 

[spurs9]

Sounds a very good squad player. How good is he on the wings?

No idea TBH. He did get a goal and an assist v PSG playing RW though.

 

[Locotoro]

We have to bear in mind a couple of points. A few seasons ago we fans were praying for a CM player who could hold and we thought we'd missed out on our targets. What happened? Dier stepped into the fold and played out the season fantastically. Similarly, we are now on the brink of losing arguably our first choice RB and we may or may not sign another, but if we don't there will be opportunities for KWP and he can prove himself. Sometimes proving yourself, despite game time is just as important to progressing, as with players leaving and getting injured they have to be ready to step into the fold.

Additionally, whilst I do believe Poch gives youth a chance in so far as age is not a factor for him, I also believe he expects a player (signing or youth product) to work hard and understand his tactics and strategy instinctively. So he's not one to throw someone into the deep end. We've signed Lamela, N'Jie, Son, N'koudou, Janssen, Wimmer, all of these players (bar Wanyama - who previously played under Poch) showed underwhelming form in their first season and took at least a season to adapt to Poch's system. I think Poch knows this and understands that players need to be brought through slowly and this has manifested in bringing in younger players who are more amenable to playing the waiting game.

This point also counts for our youth players, I think Poch sees that a youth player training with the first team for a season (at a much higher intensity than they are used to) is the development step before game time.

I fully expect the players who were training with the first team last season to get much more game time this season