The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

[C0YS]

He also has a better brain and his technique doesn't turn to that of a 5yo when he's confronted with a defender.

I always thought his Brain was by far his biggest weakness. Even in under 21 football, and certainly in the england 20s and under 21s he was constantly caught out of position. He had a wonderful technique and was great going forward but he would give wingers the space to be done by simple balls over the top time and time again. I'd rather a player who makes an embarrassing mistake but at least was in the right position to make that mistake than one who is absent.

I never rated him particularly highly, for all his qualities I don't believe at the time he was ready to be a premier league fullback yet alone a tottenham one. And if you look at Bournemouth forums, he wasn't ready to be a fullback at championship level a few seasons ago.

 

[beats1]

So he's not signed for Chelsea yet?

No

 

[Grim54]

Miracle if he comes back. He does have somee very good offers.

Sounds as though we will have to offer the best kids a 'guarantee' of a pro contract at 17, with maybe a 'pre-contract agreement' before that - as West Ham did with Reece Oxford.

 

[Spurzinho]

Its not unheard of for kids to want a guarantee of a pro-deal before they sign their scholarship. We let Kodi Lyons-Foster walk when he demanded one, he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. Its also possible that Kirby has looked at the size of the U18 & U21 squads and asked for a certain amount of playing time & we couldn't give it to him. The problem for him is all the best academies have this problem. Chelski & Man City are even more crazy competitive than ours. Sure the Gooners & Spammers could give him game time but that's because their academies are in disrepair

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Its not unheard of for kids to want a guarantee of a pro-deal before they sign their scholarship. We let Kodi Lyons-Foster walk when he demanded one, he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. Its also possible that Kirby has looked at the size of the U18 & U21 squads and asked for a certain amount of playing time & we couldn't give it to him. The problem for him is all the best academies have this problem. Chelski & Man City are even more crazy competitive than ours. Sure the Gooners & Spammers could give him game time but that's because their academies are in disrepair

Who?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I always thought his Brain was by far his biggest weakness. Even in under 21 football, and certainly in the england 20s and under 21s he was constantly caught out of position. He had a wonderful technique and was great going forward but he would give wingers the space to be done by simple balls over the top time and time again. I'd rather a player who makes an embarrassing mistake but at least was in the right position to make that mistake than one who is absent.

I never rated him particularly highly, for all his qualities I don't believe at the time he was ready to be a premier league fullback yet alone a tottenham one. And if you look at Bournemouth forums, he wasn't ready to be a fullback at championship level a few seasons ago.

I think you missed the part where I said better brain than Walker. I have a magnetic thing for keeping paperclips on my desk that has a better brain than Walker.

Of course Smith had learning to do, like Walker hasn't taken 8 years to learn how to defend remotely acceptably, he was doing all those things and bloody ridiculous shit for years. I've watched Walker (and he did again last season) completely ignore the man with the ball, get distracted by someone running off the ball and follow him and leave the man with the ball to do what he likes. There was that thing he used to to do all the time where he'd stand off the man with the ball and almost say "go on then, I'll race you". He cost Eng;and a goal at the Euro's by simply not tracking his man.

I didn't say Smith was a genius. But at least he has some kind of football cognisance. He doesn't panic the second he's confronted by a defender when dribbling in forward areas and trip the ball straight to him.

I've never said Smith was or would be a world beater, but he should have got a chance, even if you like Walker, buying Naughton too was ridiculous when we had Smith, and he proved last season he can at least hold his own at EPL level, who knows where he'd be now if he'd got a chance a few years ago.

 

[Spurzinho]

Who?

Was with us as a schoolboy until three years ago. He was an England U16 regular and had featured for our U18s. He seemed a shoo-in for a scholarship but ended up doing the rounds, trialling at the Spammers, the Gooners, Liverpool even. He ended up signing for Villa, who offered him the deal he wanted. Subsequently he was left in the ludicrous situation of spending the two years of his scholarship not even getting into the U18 side but still graduating up to their U21 side and spending another 12 months after that watching on the from the sidelines because he couldn't get into that side either. When Sherwood arrived as manager he briefly invited Kodi to train with the first team (obviously remembering him from his time as our development coach) but within a couple of weeks Kodi was back with the kids. Kodi was let go this summer, having played hardly any football for the last three years, and signed for Bristol City.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Was with us as a schoolboy until three years ago. He was an England U16 regular and had featured for our U18s. He seemed a shoo-in for a scholarship but ended up doing the rounds, trialling at the Spammers, the Gooners, Liverpool even. He ended up signing for Villa, who offered him the deal he wanted. Subsequently he was left in the ludicrous situation of spending the two years of his scholarship not even getting into the U18 side but still graduating up to their U21 side and spending another 12 months after that watching on the from the sidelines because he couldn't get into that side either. When Sherwood arrived as manager he briefly invited Kodi to train with the first team (obviously remembering him from his time as our development coach) but within a couple of weeks Kodi was back with the kids. Kodi was let go this summer, having played hardly any football for the last three years, and signed for Bristol City.

You would have thought the best bit of advice for any kid lucky enough to find themselves in a decent situation at the age of 16/17 is to knuckle down at the club that's seen fit to support them, rather than go off hunting for greener grass. Doesn't seem to bode all that well for their temperament if they head off in search of 'better' treatment etc.

 

[loaderspurs]

I can only think he was seeking assurances on his progression. Not first team minutes as such, but something concrete that he would be offered a pro contract on decent terms when he was able to sign, with targets that if he met improvements would be triggered. Similar to what we do with more senior players, such as we've seen Kane sign 4 or so contracts since he broke through.

 

[elDiablo]

Oh well. A nya one bites the dust

 

[beats1]

Its not unheard of for kids to want a guarantee of a pro-deal before they sign their scholarship. We let Kodi Lyons-Foster walk when he demanded one, he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. Its also possible that Kirby has looked at the size of the U18 & U21 squads and asked for a certain amount of playing time & we couldn't give it to him. The problem for him is all the best academies have this problem. Chelski & Man City are even more crazy competitive than ours. Sure the Gooners & Spammers could give him game time but that's because their academies are in disrepair

TBH we have done it before ourselves when trying to lure players here

 

[IGSpur]

Right after clearance from the mods. I will be very selective with words to not get anyone into trouble. He (Kirby) did not want to leave. We did not give him the assurances he sought which were not financial. Management liked him a lot, but our policy of keeping young players is becoming dated, and almost lost another (no hard guess) if it wasn't for Poch's personal intervention

Levy has to value his staff better, and the young precocious talent we have. Levy has been told to basically get with the times, and you cannot keep gems in the youth set-up on poultry incentives that are so dated it is now s very serious issue, and trying to address it.

No surprise the management wanted to keep him, I know you say bridges are burnt but I'd hope we give him a more tempting offer, as he is a real talent. Sometimes reminds me of Modric in his style, so would be good to find a resolution.

Otherwise some of this isn't new, I think a few have said we are quite dated in our methods and need to change them if we want to retain players int eh future. An obvious one that comes to mind is Milos and how we won't give chances unless they sign long contracts. I understand the theory but we will lose players. I have also heard that our players are treated quite poorly and other clubs players are quite put off from joining us, when speaking to our youth players in terms of their treatment monetary or otherwise.

Finally while I like our wage cap, if we don't adapt we will of course begin to lose our better players, or at least offer better incentives. Kirby wasn't the only one being tempted away, and he may not see as many pathways to the first team as clear as the fans believe.

Also I'm not sure if we offer advanced pro contracts. but 'm aware scholarships have already been offered to certain players for next years age group, so plausible we could do the same for pros, but that is a pre-contract.

Thanks for sharing

 

[IGSpur]

Was quite surprised that I had only heard about Madeuke being called up for an England u15 camp as we have few good players in that age group.

But now unsurprisingly Malchi Walcott (CB) and Rafferty Pedder(CM/AM) have both been called up, along with Blake Darcy. I have heard about Darcy but not seen him play much so can't offer any views on him.

England u16s are playing a match against Romania soon, hoping Clarke eventually gets the call-up he deserves. Plenty of other talents, but despite England having some good wingers surprised Clarke hasn't made it yet. Neither has Taylor Richards though from City (previously Fulham) so hope they are just looking at options.

For those who haven't seen this and are curious, Clarke is in this, I don't think I need to say who

 

[Hercules]

No surprise the management wanted to keep him, I know you say bridges are burnt but I'd hope we give him a more tempting offer, as he is a real talent. Sometimes reminds me of Modric in his style, so would be good to find a resolution.

Otherwise some of this isn't new, I think a few have said we are quite dated in our methods and need to change them if we want to retain players int eh future. An obvious one that comes to mind is Milos and how we won't give chances unless they sign long contracts. I understand the theory but we will lose players. I have also heard that our players are treated quite poorly and other clubs players are quite put off from joining us, when speaking to our youth players in terms of their treatment monetary or otherwise.

Finally while I like our wage cap, if we don't adapt we will of course begin to lose our better players, or at least offer better incentives. Kirby wasn't the only one being tempted away, and he may not see as many pathways to the first team as clear as the fans believe.

Also I'm not sure if we offer advanced pro contracts. but 'm aware scholarships have already been offered to certain players for next years age group, so plausible we could do the same for pros, but that is a pre-contract.

Thanks for sharing

In bold you have hit the nail on the head full 100%

 

[BPR_U16]

No surprise the management wanted to keep him, I know you say bridges are burnt but I'd hope we give him a more tempting offer, as he is a real talent. Sometimes reminds me of Modric in his style, so would be good to find a resolution.

Otherwise some of this isn't new, I think a few have said we are quite dated in our methods and need to change them if we want to retain players int eh future. An obvious one that comes to mind is Milos and how we won't give chances unless they sign long contracts. I understand the theory but we will lose players. I have also heard that our players are treated quite poorly and other clubs players are quite put off from joining us, when speaking to our youth players in terms of their treatment monetary or otherwise.

Finally while I like our wage cap, if we don't adapt we will of course begin to lose our better players, or at least offer better incentives. Kirby wasn't the only one being tempted away, and he may not see as many pathways to the first team as clear as the fans believe.

Also I'm not sure if we offer advanced pro contracts. but 'm aware scholarships have already been offered to certain players for next years age group, so plausible we could do the same for pros, but that is a pre-contract.

Thanks for sharing

So do i have this right - our youth system is currently has a number of highly regarded players and though we are developing them well we may have longer term problems because they want more and we need to change our structure to accommodate?
They are starting to make requests on the club which we cannot keep because one of the problems of having a good academy is that all cannot get game time?

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Was quite surprised that I had only heard about Madeuke being called up for an England u15 camp as we have few good players in that age group.

But now unsurprisingly Malchi Walcott (CB) and Rafferty Pedder(CM/AM) have both been called up, along with Blake Darcy. I have heard about Darcy but not seen him play much so can't offer any views on him.

England u16s are playing a match against Romania soon, hoping Clarke eventually gets the call-up he deserves. Plenty of other talents, but despite England having some good wingers surprised Clarke hasn't made it yet. Neither has Taylor Richards though from City (previously Fulham) so hope they are just looking at options.

For those who haven't seen this and are curious, Clarke is in this, I don't think I need to say who

Do spurs youth teams play a lot of futsal now or was this a one off match?

 

[IGSpur]

So do i have this right - our youth system is currently has a number of highly regarded players and though we are developing them well we may have longer term problems because they want more and we need to change our structure to accommodate?
They are starting to make requests on the club which we cannot keep because one of the problems of having a good academy is that all cannot get game time?

I guess so. The we have lots of top players so say each year we have 15 players. 5 are average/won't make it, 5 are very good players that could make it with us, 5 are top players who could be stars and are wanted by lots of clubs. The top 5 ones are being tempted away with money, promises of better pathways, so on and so forth. Not a terrible situation as the middle 5 could be very good and will supply the first team, but we want to try and keep the best 5. It's a problem of having a top academy, but we need to decide if we are willing to let the really top ones go and not offer incentives, to work on our other players.

We changed our structure for Edwards and I agree with that. Before he had a couple of appearances in preseason, based off only academy reports people were saying we shouldn't change anything and noone should get special treatment, now after the 2 appearances in preseason people are saying he could be a star for us this season, after finally getting a glimpse. Should we be making an effort to keep these players? or let them go?

 

[IGSpur]

Do spurs youth teams play a lot of futsal now or was this a one off match?

Don't mean to sound difficult but what do you mean a lot? It's not a one off. That same age group has featured in other futsal tournaments. I don't know of all of them but I imagine they use them quite a lot. Not sure what age groups they go upto though

 

[newbie]

I think we miss the "Sherwood" role the link between John mc, Manager and Levy, a guy who sweet talks the parents makes. Spurs do have a strict hirachy system which kids at 15-18 will be like marmite I don know what is provided for the accademy but the first team aphas it's own wing in the complex own privileges, do the accademy teams have a Allan Dixon ( ray Donovan just joking top bloke but I recon his hard as nails) as Allan looks after the players and if they need / want things dotes it out?

On a another note how do we do on technology, sports science, massages, scans, head doctors for the first team and youth teams I wonder? Be crazy to think there is not a professional to speak to for the accademy the British cycling team one of the key guys behind the scences is the psychiatrist

 

[Spurzinho]

I think we miss the "Sherwood" role the link between John mc, Manager and Levy, a guy who sweet talks the parents makes. Spurs do have a strict hirachy system which kids at 15-18 will be like marmite I don know what is provided for the accademy but the first team aphas it's own wing in the complex own privileges, do the accademy teams have a Allan Dixon ( ray Donovan just joking top bloke but I recon his hard as nails) as Allan looks after the players and if they need / want things dotes it out?

On a another note how do we do on technology, sports science, massages, scans, head doctors for the first team and youth teams I wonder? Be crazy to think there is not a professional to speak to for the accademy the British cycling team one of the key guys behind the scences is the psychiatrist

McDermott has taken over Sherwood's role. He is now the development supremo, not just the academy manager. He is in charge of all player development from U9 through to the first team.