The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[DCSPUR]

this thread oscillates between brilliant information and the life of brian

 

[topper]

this thread oscillates between brilliant information and the life of brian

Don't know what you're talking about big nose!

 

[ljinko888]

Im not sure Poch deserves half the praise we all heap on him when it comes to the youth players, to be honest.

He deserves all the praise for young players.

Youth players not so much but he is still one of the better ones out there. Winks' breakthrough goes to his name and I'll give him Mason who only made four of his seventy Spurs appearances under previous managers. It was Poch who made him a first team player for a couple of years here.

However there is a slight problem with judging managers and that is youth development is not linear and it's not black and white.

The records shows Onomah has made all thirty two of his Spurs appearances under Poch but he's further away from becoming a first team player now than when he was first getting a taste of it in the 15-16 season. In that season he was eighteen years of age and starting in Europa League games against Dortmund and Monaco while also making frequent sub appearances in the league. If Onomah leaves the club some people will point to the record and say 'he played thirty times and never showed any sign of quality' but when you break it down that's not a fair statement.

Conversely Kane had a taste of first team action under Sherwood and was useful but no more. It's under Poch who has taken him onto to where he is now.

 

[coys200]

Ccv gone to shit apparantly. Most want to drive him back here.

 

[razzmaster]

Ccv gone to shit apparantly. Most want to drive him back here.

I'm glad we don't have any fans who are that fickle

 

[Hengy1]

Ccv gone to shit apparantly. Most want to drive him back here.

Maybe we should bring him back and convert him into a striker

 

[IGSpur]

My understanding was that Onomah wanted the loan @WindyCOYS, @IGSpur or someone else may be able to clarify....that has been the missed opportunity for me because I think of JO was here this season he'd be getting some playing time for certain.

Even if that was true. Could you Blake him 2/ë years under Poch going nowhere, no real opportunities, especially in his fav position. Do I stay and hope for more chances or start thinking about my career and go out and start impressing other managers if he has to. You can't stay there until your 24 'trusting'Poch to give you a chance when no indication he will and get released from the club with zero league starts to your name. Who's going to want to pick you up?

Your argument falters a bit when we have to watch the likes of Sissoko trundling around doesn't it ? There have been games this season such as Barnsley and West Ham in the cup when Alli has played 90 mins, then you have league games against Swansea, Palace, West Brom, Leicester when we've not rested or rotated anyone, whilst playing major pressure CL games too.

And when those performances have seen us looking tired and pretty void of inspiration, you start to think what if one kid like Edwards or Shashoua had been put on the bench, Son or Nkoudou started and Alli rested completely, same Eriksen for a game here or there, and Kane, and I'd have rather seen Onomah played in midfield in the summer, and maybe we could be watching him getting ad hoc games and minutes now in CM instead of the woeful Sissoko. Even if Onomah bumbled about a bit, it would hardly make any difference to what we get with Sissoko. Same could be said for TOB.

And we could have saved ourselves 25m, continued to integrated KWP, and not been any worse off as a squad than we have been by buying Aurier, who needs as much educating and acclimatising as KWP does.

I don't see how Edwards or another being on the bench and coming on once since start of the season instead of sane exhausted places would have negatively affected anything.

I'm all for giving youth a chance but we have to be realistic, the youngsters will be integrated with the first team in training, the coaching staff will see how they perform. Youngsters playing against youngsters is a million miles away from playing first team football. Unless they can cut it on the training ground no manager is going to risk them in games.

Well Aurier was highly rated and played against seniors and looks like he's going to need as much time and patience or even more than KWP would have needed or even been afforded by managers and fans.

He only faces 'youths' and got an MOTM so this argument about what size you're playing doesn't matter. Also didn't affect Bentaleb, Winks, Loftus-Cheek, heck every young player that has ever come through as had to have fine straight from playing academy football to playing against adults, that's how it works.

 

[IGSpur]

this thread oscillates between brilliant information and the life of brian

Where are we at now

 

[DJS]

Wonder why we have to give them all daft squad numbers as looks kinda crazy.

Would have thought could give them usually 1-25 numbers for youth league / competition and a separate number for if they’re involved in first team affairs.

Sorry OCD.

 

[DCSPUR]

Where are we at now

mate, with you engaged it is always in the brilliant info category!

 

[coys200]

Maybe we should bring him back and convert him into a striker

Tbh if you don’t have the imagination to be flexible when thinking about young players, then you know little about football. There are tens of examples of players converted from one position to be More successful in another. At the weekend Onomah was literally playing 2nd striker for Villa,so I really don’t think my suggestion was or is that outlandish. Also don’t think him being a CB was either as he has played as a deep lying CM. And most deep lying CM can or have played CB. Part of Onomah problem is he is nearly 21 and nobody manager wise seems to know where to play him.

 

[EQP]

Tbh if you don’t have the imagination to be flexible when thinking about young players, then you know little about football. There are tens of examples of players converted from one position to be More successful in another. At the weekend Onomah was literally playing 2nd striker for Villa,so I really don’t think my suggestion was or is that outlandish. Also don’t think him being a CB was either as he has played as a deep lying CM. And most deep lying CM can or have played CB. Part of Onomah problem is he is nearly 21 and nobody manager wise seems to know where to play him.

But you noted in of our other posts that when he was deployed as a CM, he looks comfortable and actually impacts the game. He showed in the Youth WC and for some of the games that he played for Villa that CM is his strongest position. So why would you suggest 2 other position changes if we know that he excels as a CM?

 

[blackburn]

Can't help thinking we're complicating the issue here. At every club across the world there are a total of thousands of promising young footballers, a tiny % establish themselves, its been the same for decades. Some lack discipline, others desire, most simply aren't good enough. Supporters of every club hope to bring through and develop their own players but it happens very rarely.

 

[spursfan77]

youngsters playing with youngsters against youngsters is a fair way away from first team football but a youngster playing with seniors against seniors isn't really, fans have this idea that they'd be a massive weak-link and entirely out of their depth but how many examples of this happening can you actually give? it works the same the other way too, one senior player playing alongside a team of kids is unlikely to dominate. i don't really buy that if they perform against the first teamers in training then they'll get their chance either as there will still be the question of how they'll do in games.

despite this there's only really been a couple of occasions this season where i've been genuinely annoyed at the (mis)use of young players. the first being onomah in pre-season. he's just won the u20 world cup putting in several quality performances as a cm, his confidence is high and this was the perfect time to try him there(even more so given wanyama's problems) to see what he's got ... but no, poch sticks him back out wide and unsurprisingly he doesn't do much, then he gets packed off on loan. the other was kwp not playing in the cup game against west ham. he'd already put in two solid performances against newcastle in the league and barnsley in the previous round, this would've been a good game for his development and with rose still out injured it would've given davies a bit of a rest but nope, even in a competition we clearly don't rate of much importance(pochettino's words) he still didn't get to play ... and we lost anyway.

I find the whole treatment of KWP utterly bizarre to tell you the truth. He should have been out on loan getting regular football and not sitting at home or on the bench watching our games. He could have 40/50 odd league appearances under his belt at some level by now. That simply has to be more beneficial than not giving him games and only training with the first team

 

[nicdic]

Wonder why we have to give them all daft squad numbers as looks kinda crazy.

Would have thought could give them usually 1-25 numbers for youth league / competition and a separate number for if they’re involved in first team affairs.

Sorry OCD.

They are playing for Tottenham in an FA competition, so the squad numbers include our first team.

 

[coys200]

But you noted in of our other posts that when he was deployed as a CM, he looks comfortable and actually impacts the game. He showed in the Youth WC and for some of the games that he played for Villa that CM is his strongest position. So why would you suggest 2 other position changes if we know that he excels as a CM?

The reason I originally said it was because of the number of promising CM we have. The most excited I’ve got about Onomah was the World Cup. The deep lying CM looks his natural position. And he looked superb there. However my enthusiasm for him has been slightly tempered by his Villa performances. But I still feel he is a talented boy, technically very good,if not somewhat lazy in his application. If we let him go nobody would be surprised if in 3 years time he turned out to be a top draw CM. But my feeling is he is 4 th in pecking order behind winks TOB Skipp. And this doesn’t include anyone we might buy at CM. So that’s what got me thinking instead of losing him, could he possibly be proficient in another position. As said some may have derided my opinion, but I’ll stand by it and don’t think it’s that fanciful.

 

[coys200]

I find the whole treatment of KWP utterly bizarre to tell you the truth. He should have been out on loan getting regular football and not sitting at home or on the bench watching our games. He could have 40/50 odd league appearances under his belt at some level by now. That simply has to be more beneficial than not giving him games and only training with the first team

Even weirder that he can’t play U23 football either. Think he has played 4 or 5 games since season started and 3 of those were with England. Has to go on loan January. The sad thing is it’s very hard to see a pathway for him. If Rose leaves we will buy a replacement. And I don’t think he was ever seen as a LB, but someone who can play there if needed. That means somehow he will have to supersede Trips and Aurier. Personally I think ultimately he will be better than both. But it would be brave for poch to sell either and put trust in KWP.

 

[Hengy1]

Sterling & Amos training with first team today. ( Kane & Dier aren’t )

 

[spursfan77]

Sterling & Amos training with first team today. ( Kane & Dier aren’t )

If they don't play some part tomorrow then they never will.

 

[coys200]

If they don't play some part tomorrow then they never will.

Can say same about Edwards. Won’t get a look in this season if can’t even get on bench for this. What’s the deal with Amos feels like he’s been around forever and never really heard any praise for him. Still only 20.5. My impression is an average CM who may have career in championship? Almost a bit Livermore like.