The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[Blake Griffin]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...-swoop-tottenham-defender-kyle-walker-peters/

don't see much point in this if he's just going to be a back-up.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I just posted this in the ratings thread, but it's probably worth posting it in here too.

The reason they were getting joy down the right was because of Pochettino's tactical set up, which had two narrow CM's, Sissoko in the centre and two narrow CF's, it was fucking atrocious tactically :

And don't forget that positional map is influenced by the fact that Vertonghen spent 45 minutes as a LB/LW and Dier as LCB - in reality you can move both of those 5 yards right for the time KWP was on the pitch and it tells you how exposed he was.

It was really poor tactically to expose any FB to that, let alone a rooky RB playing at LB. There were several, much better tactical solutions to start or correct this with, and there were players who were much less exposed by Pochettino's tactical clusterfuck who performed even worse - in terms of their remit - than KWP, who actually showed intelligence when getting forward, took up several great positions, but because neither of Dembele or Sissoko could get their heads out of the arses and pass to him when he was in space, went to waste.

It wasn't just that it was the cowardly decision - we all know Poch shits himself about subbing people, especially his favourites, he's even said so in his book - it was wasn't even tactically the smartest thing he could have done by a long stretch.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I thought KWP actually showed initiative going forwards yesterday, got himself forward, made himself available and never hid from the ball (unlike some) as a LWB in a 3CB system should.

Before the game I questioned the logic of selecting the likes of Amos, not TOB, for the bench when we already had Wanyama, Dembele and Dier on the pitch. I also don't understand why someone like Shashoua, isn't given some bench time, in a game like, where good technique, quick feet and a brain might be more useful.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Pochettino's tactical set up, which had two narrow CM's, Sissoko in the centre and two narrow CF's, it was fucking atrocious tactically :

A fair bit misleading though. Sissoko was not set up centrally, he switched sides - sometimes playing in the left, sometimes playing on the right. That creates the perception in the average position chart, that he was playing centrally.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

A fair bit misleading though. Sissoko was not set up centrally, he switched sides - sometimes playing in the left, sometimes playing on the right. That creates the perception in the average position chart, that he was playing centrally.

Here is Sissoko's touch map, as you can see, when he did drift, it was mainly toward the right, leaving KWP completely exposed.

 

[tiger666]

Here is Sissoko's touch map, as you can see, when he did drift, it was mainly toward the right, leaving KWP completely exposed.

View attachment 35518

Now do it for the 1st half, not entire game.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Now do it for the 1st half, not entire game.

That's still bias towards the centre/right. Well done.

 

[tiger666]

That's still bias towards the centre/right. Well done.

There's no need for the sarky comment. Our attacking players were changing sides all game. The average position map doesn't give a fair reflection of that.

 

[Hengy1]

Here is Sissoko's touch map, as you can see, when he did drift, it was mainly toward the right, leaving KWP completely exposed.

View attachment 35518

I don’t know why you’re using Sissoko when clearly he was the right hand side of a 3. It was Dembele job to get over and help KWP out.

 

[tiger666]

I don’t know why you’re using Sissoko

I think we all know why.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I agree with the semblance of your post.

What I'll add is something I have mentioned before. Poch is at a crucial crossroad now. One issue is he needs to win a trophy but that's another subject. He is also at a crossroad with youth integration because now it's his players who he has to make big calls on.

When he first joined he inherited a squad which had a toxic atmosphere from the last season and where senior players didn't care. So he washed his hands off them and gave fresh faces a chance.Youngsters who have something to fight for and listen to his message and methods which the older players may not have.

He's now shaped the squad to his fit. The senior players who people could say are blocking the path for academy players are his signings. He could tell Adebayor, Kaboul and Lennon to sit in the stands but he has to take ownership of Sissoko, Trippier and Dier. In addition, the latter three are probably excellent trainers so he respects them.

i would rather poch just concentrated on the first team whilst letting mcdermott and co have full responsibility over the academy, poch can have them in the first team squad if/once they've proven they can cope playing 1st team football elsewhere. one thing i will never get on board with is taking these players out of matches so they can become full-time trainers, playing games is a vital part of development for any footballer but even more so for those aged 17-21.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

There's no need for the sarky comment. Our attacking players were changing sides all game. The average position map doesn't give a fair reflection of that.

But there was no designated wide players ahead of the FB's, especially the LB in the first half. That was the point. KWP was exposed by Pochettino's tactical set up. That was absolutely blatantly obvious, even without heat maps, they just demonstrate the point. Sissoko as right footer who always plays right sided positions, naturally preferred to drift out there, and did.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don’t know why you’re using Sissoko when clearly he was the right hand side of a 3. It was Dembele job to get over and help KWP out.

Thank you, for reinforcing my point. It was Leington and Tiger who are trying to say Sissoko was also covering the right, to which I responded. In my initial point, I included the CM's (and you are right, Dembele was the Left sided one).

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Thank you, for reinforcing my point. It was Leington and Tiger who are trying to say Sissoko was also covering the right, to which I responded. In my initial point, I included the CM's (and you are right, Dembele was the Left sided one).

You are spinning yourself in circles mate, I assume you did not really watch the match, or at least not close enough to pay attention. Your own touch maps show that Sissoko played on the left and the right - about equally according to that data in the first half.

This conversation, or my part in it, started when you said Poch got it tactically wrong by having "two narrow CM's, Sissoko in the centre" - which was patently false.

KWP had a poor game. He was far from alone in that regard. He had a few lapses of concentration - that you can't blame on anyone else. There will be plenty of better days for KWP in the future - but to pretend he was not to blame for his own performance yesterday, hurts your overall credibility.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You are spinning yourself in circles mate, I assume you did not really watch the match, or at least not close enough to pay attention. Your own touch maps show that Sissoko played on the left and the right - about equally according to that data in the first half.

This conversation, or my part in it, started when you said Poch got it tactically wrong by having "two narrow CM's, Sissoko in the centre" - which was patently false.

KWP had a poor game. He was far from alone in that regard. He had a few lapses of concentration - that you can't blame on anyone else. There will be plenty of better days for KWP in the future - but to pretend he was not to blame for his own performance yesterday, hurts your overall credibility.

Sissoko was defaulted centrally, with license to drift, which he did much more to the right than left, as the positional map and touch maps show.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Sissoko was defaulted centrally, with license to drift, which he did much more to the right than left, as the positional map and touch maps show.

So you didn't watch the match?

 

[allpaths]

KWP had a poor game. He was far from alone in that regard. He had a few lapses of concentration - that you can't blame on anyone else. There will be plenty of better days for KWP in the future - but to pretend he was not to blame for his own performance yesterday, hurts your overall credibility.

yes, it doesnt help kwp if people try to spin yesterday's performance to try to protect him. he was put in a bad situation tactically and some people were over the top with their criticism of him in the match thread. But plain and simply he had a poor game, not the end of the world, Kyle just needs to learn and grow from the expierence.

People need to remember that was the first game in his professional career were he was put under extreme pressure and challenged properly. Yesterday was a good expierence imo and well could go towards the making of him in the long term.

 

[Blake Griffin]

paris maghoma vs kashiwa

 

[IGSpur]

yes, it doesnt help kwp if people try to spin yesterday's performance to try to protect him. he was put in a bad situation tactically and some people were over the top with their criticism of him in the match thread. But plain and simply he had a poor game, not the end of the world, Kyle just needs to learn and grow from the expierence.

People need to remember that was the first game in his professional career were he was put under extreme pressure and challenged properly. Yesterday was a good expierence imo and well could go towards the making of him in the long term.

He did struggle tbf he only saving grace is it wouldn't matter what he did, he wouldn't get any more game time later this season so it hasn't affected much this season, but it will probably affect how he is viewed for next season.We all know if an academy player in a weak position, doesn't put in the same level of performances as international players in their favourite position, it suggested they're not ready to be playing for our first team.

Hopefully he starts the next game at Wembley and has a better game

 

[allpaths]

He did struggle tbf he only saving grace is it wouldn't matter what he did, he wouldn't get any more game time later this season so it hasn't affected much this season, but it will probably affect how he is viewed for next season.We all know if an academy player in a weak position, doesn't put in the same level of performances as international players in their favourite position, it suggested they're not ready to be playing for our first team.

Hopefully he starts the next game at Wembley and has a better game

agree that's my only worry is that management and fans zero in on this one poor outing allowing them to look past the major flaws in trippier's game.
i really cant wrap my head around why some fans judge our academy kids so hard, but are willing to give the likes of sissoko and trippier a pass all the time?