The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[Locotoro]

Seen reports of Cy Goddard being loaned to an Italian team, has that been discussed or gone under the radar?

 

[N174EVA]

John McDermott is the main architect and instigator of our current academy policies, not Chris Ramsey. McDermott was appointed by Arnesen to replace Peter Suddaby as Academy Manager, reporting directly to Arnesen, Ramsey was brought in not long after I think, to work under Mcdermott. I've seen footage of his (McDermott) lectures and dossiers on academy philosophy and structuring. Ramsey was a highly qualified coach, one of the highest qualified of his generation in this country I think, and I'm sure he had input into the academy philosophy too, but this was not a philosophy instigated by Ramsey and blindly followed by McDermott.

John McDermott is the main architect and instigator of our current academy policies, not Chris Ramsey. McDermott was appointed by Arnesen to replace Peter Suddaby as Academy Manager, reporting directly to Arnesen, Ramsey was brought in not long after I think, to work under Mcdermott. I've seen footage of his (McDermott) lectures and dossiers on academy philosophy and structuring. Ramsey was a highly qualified coach, one of the highest qualified of his generation in this country I think, and I'm sure he had input into the academy philosophy too, but this was not a philosophy instigated by Ramsey and blindly followed by McDermott.

Maybe I went a little overboard but a lot of Ramsays philosophies are still in place. Yes he is one of the highly decorated coaches in the country but it doesn't mean I agree with some of his philosophies. 3 days a week for 7 years, I know what I see and I like many who stand or have stood next to me knows change is needed for the good of the boys.

 

[Westmorland]

FA Youth Cup date Home to Chelsea Tues 13 Feb @ Stevenage

 

[Lilbaz]

Maybe I went a little overboard but a lot of Ramsays philosophies are still in place. Yes he is one of the highly decorated coaches in the country but it doesn't mean I agree with some of his philosophies. 3 days a week for 7 years, I know what I see and I like many who stand or have stood next to me knows change is needed for the good of the boys.

For the good of the boys? How many of boys taught under ramsey have played for england?

 

[Anuth]

Seen reports of Cy Goddard being loaned to an Italian team, has that been discussed or gone under the radar?

I can't remember but someone said he left us at the beginning of the season but failed the trial with a Japanese team. then returned to train with us.

 

[DCSPUR]

This is where the games all wrong. Do we think Gazza needed to work more off the ball. Hazard has been in his best form since given free reign. Let the creative players do their thing. Plenty of water carriers to do the dirty work.

Gazza worked his nuts off....sometimes too much and tackled wildly but no one could say he didn't work off the ball....and don't put Gazza and that muppet from Chelski in the same category!!!

 

[DCSPUR]

If you check the stats you will find that Messi doesn’t run much at all. He walks more than most players. In a recent Classico Renaldo ran twice as far as Messi.The team is set up for Messi to do what he does. He certainly does not bust his bollocks, but then he doesn’t have to. Unlike someone like Rooney who ran all over the place and now at 31 can hardly raise a gallop.

 

[coys200]

It’s well known that Messi doesn’t run much. And often can be seen just standing around for large portions of the game. I was never suggesting or comparing Edwards to messi or hazard. My point was I feel a touch of the Mavericks and creative forces have gone out the game. I wonder where a player like Le tissier would sit in today’s running stats. I get Poch is all about the press and it’s something he won’t tolerate. Even pep has a bit of an issue with Aguero. For me I don’t want to see messi or hazard chasing back there are 9 other outfield players that can do that. I think every team can afford 1 maverick if his creative input is very special. Others won’t feel the same, is there a right or wrong on this I’m not sure, I just see it as a different philosophy.

 

[coys200]

Also just to add I would hate to see Edwards flair and maverick ability bashed out if him. Because he feels has to constantly be tracking back into a RB position. I think I’m just a Redknapp philosophy when it comes to creative players.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

We all want Marcus to succeed and we know he has bags of ability but a lot of what i read from Spurs fans is that he has the divine right to walk into first teams and start consistently as he has the potential and ability, i just hope its not Marcus’ attitude aswel as it will continue to hold him back from achieving what hes capable of.

This loan is his chance to do his ‘time’ and really take his career by the scruff of the neck and were all willing him on to do so.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I am not sure what the context is to which you refer.

It sounds to me like he has loads of talent, but does not yet have the right mentality. That is a story that has been told here many times. I don't see anything new here - other than another source saying the same thing.

If I were in Edwards' entourage - I would take careful note of:
"It is more a problem for him. "
“Then he would return to Tottenham without any time on the pitch."
And, "It is up to him. We give him all the support and trust and then he must go through the door. We can’t carry him.”

This seems to be a clear message to Edwards that he needs to put in the hard work and effort. I hope he gets that message, because it seems like he has the talent - now he has to match it with the work ethic.

Makes horrible reading. Think we can admit now that he's clearly infected with billy big bollocks. Like so many others he thinks because he's so naturally technically gifted he doesn't need to work on other aspects of his game.
Someone close to him needs to sit him down and drum it into his brain the opportunity he has and how easily it could evaporate. When he's 40, he'll look back and think how he wasted something that could have been so special. It's sad and so frustrating, he needs to wake up fast.

Makes horrible reading ? Jesus wept. 18/19yo kid isn't the complete footballer yet, shocker?

It wasn't what I'd call a dig, he also said with the ball he's one of best there but also at Spurs. Said potential wise he's one of best in Europe. He just also said some very uncomfortable truths.
We as fans can give him a pass cos it won't make a blind bit of difference to his career however I hope his family and friends don't. Sadly I can imagine much like all footballers those close to him just kiss his arse and agree that he's such a baller and the managers/coaches are wrong and he's right. If he keeps doing what he's doing he'll slip into the abyss, guarantee it.

Edwards doesn't have some huge entourage. He's got a very small agent who represents (last time I looked) a handful at most of young/lower league players and his dad. They could have already gone to bigger and smaller clubs offering either shitloads more cash or shitloads more game time than we are offering. They've done the sensible thing, despite what happened last year when he didn't really get what he was promised, and stuck with the club that they've been with for years, despite not being offered fortunes and the coaches telling him hard truths and not filling his head with empty promises.

With regard to the work off the ball issue, it's taken Deli Alli nearly two years to to get the hang of how hard he's meant to work off the ball and we paid 25m for Son and he was awful off the ball, just go and watch Moses's goal for Chelsea at SB last season, or the Cup Semi.

There was really nothing alarming in anything Farke said, clearly he's been given a thorough brief by our people (McD/Poch) who feel that Edwards is extremely talented but needs to improve the side of his game without the ball. Is that really a surprise ?

What I don't really understand is why this is such a major issue with Edwards, he gets called a billy big bollocks, or lazy, and a major block for his future, when I watch and have watched players get continually picked by Pochettino when this has also been a major issue.

And for everyone bringing Messi, Gazza and Rooney into it, what about Bale. He was fucking atrocious without the ball, couldn't get a start for Redknapp for months on end (partly because he was scared he was jinxed) and was nearly fucked off the Birmingham.

We all know the story with Hazard as well, used to drive Mourinho nuts. And no, I know Edwards isn't Hazard, but do you think Hazard was working this bollocks off, off the ball, when he was 19 and then just stopped when he got his move to Chelsea?

I'm not saying for one minute that Edwards should be excused or allowed to be lazy in any way, that drives me nuts too, with any player, but FFS, why do we keep expecting a kid like Edwards to be "complete" in every aspect of his game, why does he have to be "complete" to deserve some kind of chance, when some of Poch's favourites aren't - or certainly weren't when they started playing most weeks.

I have watched Edwards recently and he is clearly working harder off the ball. You could see it watching those England games in the summer too, he was coming back and winning the ball just outside his own box. And in the YCL games you can see he's doing exactly what I'd expect a kid with his skillset to be doing. His work rate and application without the ball was relatively no worse than what Son's or Alli's was up until this season when Poch finally has them working better off the ball. And by that I don't necessarily mean Edwards work now is at the level Son/Alli was 12 months ago, but I wouldn't expect it to be, 12 months ago they'd still had over 300 senior games between them (maybe more) and a season or two under Poch.

The point I'm making is, I don't think Edwards off the ball work merits him starting PL games, but I don't think it's so catastrophically bad that it should preclude him from getting 5-20 minutes here and there, or in domestic cups either, when taken into context and weighed up relatively with his development stage and that of others.

 

[Hengy1]

I took those comments as that’s what Norwich have been told to get Edwards focused on.

Hearing the same message from a new voice sometimes wakes you up.

 

[IGSpur]

We all want Marcus to succeed and we know he has bags of ability but a lot of what i read from Spurs fans is that he has the divine right to walk into first teams and start consistently as he has the potential and ability, i just hope its not Marcus’ attitude aswel as it will continue to hold him back from achieving what hes capable of.

I don't think one fan has come close to saying that

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

I don't think one fan has come close to saying that

Well that was a bit over the top i must say but when you consume a couple bottles of red all bets are off.

but the general gist of what i was getting at is i see so many fans complaining about Poch not picking him and why isnt he on the bench this week etc. I would love to see him getting minutes but its clear from Poch stance and now the Norwich managers stance he has to earn it and i hope he doesnt feel he should play because hes got ability otherwise hes in for a rude awakening i think.

 

[Lemon]

Come on windy, I respect your views on youth but what are you suggesting here?

That we've told the Norwich manager what to say about Edwards to make sure poch can't be blamed for Edwards's lack of progress and then the Norwich manager agreed to that and is now a mouthpiece for pro-poch propaganda?

Not how I read it.

To me it says we informed Norwich of our perception of his shortcomings, and they are in agreement now they have trained him for a couple of weeks, so have given him a gentle nudge, it seemed like a shit sandwich, praise/critical/praise.

 

[IGSpur]

I don't necessarily mind everyone claiming he needs to work twice as hard as everyone else. I've seen him track back and win the ball in his own half plenty of times. I don't advocate giving anyone an opportunity if there are not trying or are knobs, but he isn't or hasn't shown that he has. He has made a clear effort to work on his off the ball game. I am in no way suggesting he should be starting, but let's say he was a complete liability in defence, there is still no harm, if he is doing the business with his feet, performing consistently well as well as showing slight improvements, in giving him 10mins off the bench or half hour if we are doing well. Or even starting a CC or dead rubber match that Poch doesn't care about. What if he gets a couple of assists, he will instantly show that he can contribute in some form. Even if he continues to be a complete liability 10mins at the end when we might need a goal, won't hurt, he won't be the reason we lose. If he still doesn't improve his off the ball work to the point we can't start him in the PL then he will go to another club, one of the many clubs that don't expect intense pressing and carry on his career elsewhere.

 

[St José Dominguez]

Makes horrible reading ? Jesus wept. 18/19yo kid isn't the complete footballer yet, shocker?



Edwards doesn't have some huge entourage. He's got a very small agent who represents (last time I looked) a handful at most of young/lower league players and his dad. They could have already gone to bigger and smaller clubs offering either shitloads more cash or shitloads more game time than we are offering. They've done the sensible thing, despite what happened last year when he didn't really get what he was promised, and stuck with the club that they've been with for years, despite not being offered fortunes and the coaches telling him hard truths and not filling his head with empty promises.

With regard to the work off the ball issue, it's taken Deli Alli nearly two years to to get the hang of how hard he's meant to work off the ball and we paid 25m for Son and he was awful off the ball, just go and watch Moses's goal for Chelsea at SB last season, or the Cup Semi.

There was really nothing alarming in anything Farke said, clearly he's been given a thorough brief by our people (McD/Poch) who feel that Edwards is extremely talented but needs to improve the side of his game without the ball. Is that really a surprise ?

What I don't really understand is why this is such a major issue with Edwards, he gets called a billy big bollocks, or lazy, and a major block for his future, when I watch and have watched players get continually picked by Pochettino when this has also been a major issue.

And for everyone bringing Messi, Gazza and Rooney into it, what about Bale. He was fucking atrocious without the ball, couldn't get a start for Redknapp for months on end (partly because he was scared he was jinxed) and was nearly fucked off the Birmingham.

We all know the story with Hazard as well, used to drive Mourinho nuts. And no, I know Edwards isn't Hazard, but do you think Hazard was working this bollocks off, off the ball, when he was 19 and then just stopped when he got his move to Chelsea?

I'm not saying for one minute that Edwards should be excused or allowed to be lazy in any way, that drives me nuts too, with any player, but FFS, why do we keep expecting a kid like Edwards to be "complete" in every aspect of his game, why does he have to be "complete" to deserve some kind of chance, when some of Poch's favourites aren't - or certainly weren't when they started playing most weeks.

I have watched Edwards recently and he is clearly working harder off the ball. You could see it watching those England games in the summer too, he was coming back and winning the ball just outside his own box. And in the YCL games you can see he's doing exactly what I'd expect a kid with his skillset to be doing. His work rate and application without the ball was relatively no worse than what Son's or Alli's was up until this season when Poch finally has them working better off the ball. And by that I don't necessarily mean Edwards work now is at the level Son/Alli was 12 months ago, but I wouldn't expect it to be, 12 months ago they'd still had over 300 senior games between them (maybe more) and a season or two under Poch.

The point I'm making is, I don't think Edwards off the ball work merits him starting PL games, but I don't think it's so catastrophically bad that it should preclude him from getting 5-20 minutes here and there, or in domestic cups either, when taken into context and weighed up relatively with his development stage and that of others.

As I said we as fans can disagree with what two different managers have said, we can even in detail explain why they're wrong or we can give him a free pass because he's "young". It won't make a blind bit of difference to his career.

All I know is he's one of the most naturally gifted young footballers in England, he's a natural born footballer. He turns 20 at the end of the year and I take nothing positive from a lot of what Farke said. The problem is I've seen it happen many times and it would be so sad if a player as supremely gifted as him doesn't make it, I hope it's a wake up call. Justification or excuse making doesn't help him at all and it needs to stop, this loan move could and should be the start, I really hope he doesn't waste it.

 

[BPR_U16]

I considered not posting this as I knew I'd get some funny ratings

It's really, really not that far-fetched. If they feel a certain way (rightly or wrongly), letting him hear a consistent message from a different voice might achieve what they want.

Sorry Windy don't believe any manager would openly come out with views that he didn't agree with purely to keep parent club happy.

May well re-iterate the point if it needs to be said in private and whilst training emphasing what the loan period is all about but cannot see them doing it in public unless it needs saying

 

[Bus-Conductor]

As I said we as fans can disagree with what two different managers have said, we can even in detail explain why they're wrong or we can give him a free pass because he's "young". It won't make a blind bit of difference to his career.

All I know is he's one of the most naturally gifted young footballers in England, he's a natural born footballer. He turns 20 at the end of the year and I take nothing positive from a lot of what Farke said. The problem is I've seen it happen many times and it would be so sad if a player as supremely gifted as him doesn't make it, I hope it's a wake up call. Justification or excuse making doesn't help him at all and it needs to stop, this loan move could and should be the start, I really hope he doesn't waste it.

Who said anything about free passes or justifying or excusing everything.

I just don’t understand the whaling and knashing of teeth because a 19yo kid can’t yet attack like Messi and defend like Makalele.

I don’t understand why this standard is applied to a 19yo kid who’s never played a senior game but isn’t applied to any of the players we buy?

I also disagree with some people’s assessment that the “without ball” facet of Edwards game is so drastically bad that it’s completely rendering him unplayable, but doesn't render other players who play a lot unplayable. I think for anyone who’s watched him over the last few years it’s clear he’s trying to improve this aspect and in the games I’ve watched in the last 12 months he has.

Players like Hazard, Ozil, Payet to name three are all pretty deficient without the ball.

 

[SpursD22]

TOB, Georgiou, Amos and Whiteman are in the squad for today’s game

https://twitter.com/spursofficial/status/957287855956615169