The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[Bus-Conductor]

Fuck sake lads, half our squad made their debut for us at 21 or under, including six who came through the youth team (if you include Rose, who was signed as a youth). That's before you consider the significant opportunities given to youth team players who have since left like Bentaleb, Mason, Carroll, Livermore. That sort of output from a youth system is more or less unheard of at the top end of modern football. And still people are questioning whether our youngsters will be given the opportunities?

I'm not sure what dream you're chasing...Pochettino has shown time and again that he is willing to give young players a chance if he thinks they are good enough - his anti-loan policy shows that he wants them in his sights, so he can judge how able they are, how ready they are, on a daily basis. Has he not earned the right to be trusted that if he Carter-Vickers isn't being given a go, it's because he's not ready or - say it quietly - simply isn't judged to be good enough? Let alone people assuming that our youth team will be completely squeezed out completely in the next few years

I'm as delighted as anyone when a youngster is given a chance and succeeds, but we're currently in a delicate situation where A) our chances of winning major trophies in the short term are higher than any time in decades, and B) our success or failure over the next couple of years could directly affect our ability to challenge in the medium and long term, with regard to holding onto our best players. We're not a mid-table team treading water who can blood a youngster whenever we feel like it safe i the knowledge that winning or losing is likely to make little difference other than whether we finish 12th or 13th - if a youth team player is going to get a chance, there needs to be a very low risk of failure. I know the romance of a kid like Edwards or Oakley-Boothe coming through and smashing it is attractive, but we have to be realistic, and it has to be done slowly. If and when they are ready, they will get their chances.

That's like saying because we've continually made great signings over the last 10 or so years we shouldn't criticise bad ones or criticise ones we could/should have made and didn't.

I don't want Onomah or KWP (or Edwards) to get chances because they are from our academy, I want them to get chances because I believe they will be exceptional players and I don't want us to lose out. Because I also am aware that we are a club that has to maximise limited resources and I know that finding exceptional players is difficult for a team with our fiscal constraints.

In the past even the next rung down we could have used our academy to better maximise our resources, signing players like Stambouli, Fazio, Chiriches when we had a player like Veljkovic, signing Njie when his squad place could have gone to Pritchard. It's got fuck all to do with them being academy players, it's more to with the fact that I think there was better options that could have cost us nothing.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I'm not sure if I'm just not paying proper attention [very probably the case], but lately our youth sides at all levels just seem to be losing every match they play. I know that youth football is about developing players (and that only a select few will ever be good enough to come into first team squad contention) rather than the results, but even so am I wrong in thinking that it's been pretty bleak on the results side of things for a while now?

the u18s and u23s are at a new cycle now so both age groups are very young. the u18s did win 4-0 last week and their results on the whole have been decent enough for the past few years. the u23s have had a couple of poor years though and there's a couple of reasons for that imo. one is that ccv's year group was of really low quality, there was barely anyone from that group worthy of being here and that meant hanging on to older players who would have otherwise been released, as well as prematurely pushing others up to fill the gap. the other reason is poch, he likes to take the best players out of the u23s and have them with him. this week against luton for example would've been a great opportunity for the likes of whiteman, oakley-boothe and georgiou to a lesser extent to get some game time against senior opposition but instead they missed out as they're training with the first team instead. there's no real reason why ccv, onomah and edwards(before the whole contract thing) couldn't have carried on playing at that level whilst with the first team but once poch brings a player up he doesn't want them being out of sync with the rest of the team.

we also practically never have any seniors playing in the u23s like most clubs do, even if it's just now and then if they're not playing much(ideal for the likes of wimmer, nkoudou, sissoko ... janssen etc to keep up some degree of sharpness). i think it would be good experience for some of the younger lads to play alongside these players but they never get that opportunity. i think the u23s' results will improve this season, though there's still a few players hanging around that I think could do with moving on. i can't really speak for the u18s as it's a new group that i haven't seen a great deal of and most of the better talents from last season's first years have moved up to the u23s now.

 

[WindyCOYS]

Roles to Exeter on loan? http://www.exeweb.com/forums/showth...c9530b1aa639e635381cab8&p=1667927#post1667927

Apparently this might well be happening.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Who is this Patterson seems to me involved in a lot of our goals?

 

[Westmorland]

Apparently this might well be happening.

Reported on THBN that it may be Roles and Tanganga both to Exeter. Also new 5 yr contract for KWP

 

[WindyCOYS]

Reported on THBN that it may be Roles and Tanganga both to Exeter. Also new 5 yr contract for KWP

Would be great for both IMO. What is THBN, mate?

 

[Westmorland]

Would be great for both IMO. What is THBN, mate?

Tottenham Hotspur Blog News. It's often on newsnow with stuff

 

[Sweech]

That's like saying because we've continually made great signings over the last 10 or so years we shouldn't criticise bad ones or criticise ones we could/should have made and didn't.

I don't want Onomah or KWP (or Edwards) to get chances because they are from our academy, I want them to get chances because I believe they will be exceptional players and I don't want us to lose out. Because I also am aware that we are a club that has to maximise limited resources and I know that finding exceptional players is difficult for a team with our fiscal constraints.

In the past even the next rung down we could have used our academy to better maximise our resources, signing players like Stambouli, Fazio, Chiriches when we had a player like Veljkovic, signing Njie when his squad place could have gone to Pritchard. It's got fuck all to do with them being academy players, it's more to with the fact that I think there was better options that could have cost us nothing.

This is pure hindsight though.

You either sign promising talents or don't. You can't cherry pick the unsuccessful ones and claim those were the ones we shouldn't have signed and we should have only signed the ones who did work. It's always going to be a mixed bag of those talents.

Not to mention you're even changing your own opinion as you were totally fine with signings like Njie or Nkoudou because we didn't have any really good youth options who offered pace in attack. Now you're going back and claiming differently only after it didn't work.

Or how about include Alli and Wanyama in your arguments as you previously stated Onomah would be better than Alli when we bought him just as you did with Lesniak for Wanyama.

So don't try and captain hindsight your way around and act like the signings we've made were clearly bad ideas at the time, when you can't prognosticate any better than anyone else here.

 

[WindyCOYS]

I just posted this on Reddit and thought it might be of interest here too:

In my opinion Tanganga is a much better footballer than Dinzeyi, and I was really surprised to see Dinzeyi go away with the first team squad whilst Tanganga was left at home. From what I've been told, Dinzeyi caught Poch's eye, and I trust Poch implicitly so he must see something in him for the future. But since then we've seen:

• Tanganga play very well at centre-back for the U23s against Luton (alongside Maghoma) whilst Dinzeyi had a 'mare at right-back.
• Dinzeyi subsequently drop down to the U18s yesterday and make a mistake for one of the goals conceded.

Tanganga is the sort of 'right place, right time' defender who will look brilliant in League Two IMO. The ball seems to be attracted to him, and he regularly puts himself on the line to make clearances, blocks, etc - maybe he's a bit too reactive for Poch's liking but he's incredibly effective and also very calm in possession.

I really like Roles. He's not a player who's especially heralded but he has that seemingly almost unteachable (it's teachable but tricky to do) trick of timing a run into the box from deep to arrive just in time to score. He's an excellent finisher and I think he could go two ways as a player. He could either be a Frank Lampard type 'breaker' from midfield, who is there in a three-man system: recycling, keeping things ticking over but then making the occasional break forward which results in an effort on goal. Or we mould him into the Dele Alli type; i.e. use that appreciation of timing and space to become a 'shoulder' player like Dele who can play almost on the periphery of the match and then suddenly become 'the guy' getting on the end of stuff. To do the latter I think we might need to work on him physically.

I'd be really happy for these loans to come off, and I'm told that there are definitely talks ongoing.

 

[Blake Griffin]

from the mirror:

Tottenham to raid Crewe for youngster

Tottenham have told Crewe to name their price for the latest sensation off the Crewe conveyer belt, George Nunn,15. The 6ft 1in striker, who has broken into the club’s under 18 development side, caught the eye of Spurs coaches in a game between the two clubs with a hat-trick.

Spurs returned from the match at the League Two side’s training ground with rave reports about the newest addition to the ranks of top players who have come through Crewe’s renowned youth system.

Now Tottenham are ready to enter talks with Crewe over Nunn who is tipped to follow in the footsteps of former Alexandra graduates like Rob Jones, Danny Murphy, Dean Ashton and Seth Johnson who have gone on to gain international honours.

It will need a hefty compensation packet to snap up Nunn who is also bound to attract the interest of other Premier League clubs.

Since the Academy was formed 75 players have progressed into the Crewe first team.

 

[WindyCOYS]

Tottenham have told Crewe to name their price

Doesn't *sound* like something Levy would say... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Spurzinho]

Totttenham have told Crewe to name their lowest price

There fixed that for you.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

This is pure hindsight though.

You either sign promising talents or don't. You can't cherry pick the unsuccessful ones and claim those were the ones we shouldn't have signed and we should have only signed the ones who did work. It's always going to be a mixed bag of those talents.

Not to mention you're even changing your own opinion as you were totally fine with signings like Njie or Nkoudou because we didn't have any really good youth options who offered pace in attack. Now you're going back and claiming differently only after it didn't work.

Or how about include Alli and Wanyama in your arguments as you previously stated Onomah would be better than Alli when we bought him just as you did with Lesniak for Wanyama.

So don't try and captain hindsight your way around and act like the signings we've made were clearly bad ideas at the time, when you can't prognosticate any better than anyone else here.

I don't believe I ever made the simple statement that Onomah would be better than Alli, I said that I didn't think Alli would be able to play in Poch's CM2 ultimately, and that I wasn't sure exactly where Alli would fit into his 4231 (which has been slightly, but not entirely, bourn out as he isn't playing in our CM2 and is playing a pretty hybrid position - half AM half striker - but I accept he's played orthodox AM plenty too) but for what it's worth, and I don't think I said this before but I'll say it now just for you, I do think that Onomah could be (if given a chance to establish himself) a (much) better CM than Alli.

Here is what I said with regards to Alli's signing and Onomah:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/player-watch-dele-alli.116424/page-17#post-4674818

I never said Lesniak is better Wanyama.. I said if we are buying Wanyama to be back up to Dier then that's a remit Lesniak could fill. Like most of us, I believed that Dier had become a Poch favourite (still do), we played a whole season of 4231, and that there's no way he'd be buying Wanyama to instantly replace him and I really much preferred (seeing Onomah and Winks weren't getting chances) if we'd have bought a top quality "8" like Tolisso to play with Dier, than another more defensive minded player. In terms of my general opinion of Wanyama I was also happy to admit that I was wrong about him, that Wanyama was a great signing, contrary to my opinion of him previously based on his time at Southampton, pretty much after his first game for us. But I very much wanted us to sign a more footballing "8" type CM than another more defensive one, and though I changed my opinion of Wanyama immediately, I still wish we'd have signed Tolisso or someone like that at that time (unless we were going to give Onomah a proper chance).

I don't remember ever having strongly positive opinions on Njie and Nkoudou, I'd barely seen either of them and said so. but I was adamant throughout that we should have given squad chances to Pritchard, Veljkovic and to a lesser degree Oduwa.

Of course I/we can't and don't criticise every signing we make at the time, as I/we often don't have anywhere near the same information as the club does when they make those signings. Some we can only criticise in hindsight when we have had a chance to assess them, but we can retrospectively criticise the club for making that signing because unlike us they have had the manpower and resources to make those signings based on watching, analysing and background checking etc. So sometimes we have to reserve judgement and then say "how the fuck did someone asses that Njie would be more useful to our squad than Pritchard (or even Oduwa) based on scouting and analysis of both players (scouting and analysis of Njie that only becomes available to us later on).

And when signings work out with signings I/we all praise the club. So why shouldn't we criticise when they don't?

The thing I have struggled to understand is why is the club is so readily prepared to risk signing players with nothing but potential, very little experience and often none of this league, very little knowledge of their character and emotional make up, and no idea how they will settle, but have been massively risk averse with players that they have spent years coaching to play for this club? Players who they know inside out. Know their character, are already settled etc.

 

[nicdic]

 

[nicdic]

Good to see Edwards back starting.

 

[Blake Griffin]

shashoua hasn't been involved much under this coach, hopefully once edwards gets pushed up then he'll start to get a few more chances. brown at cb is interesting.

 

[Clark28]

wish the club streamed these games.

 

[nicdic]

Lol at @Kalim who disagrees that it's good that Edwards is back starting.

 

[yankspurs]

from the mirror:

15 years old and 6'1? What the fuck is in the water over there?

 

[mark87]

15 years old and 6'1? What the fuck is in the water over there?

Happens. Guy i went to school with at the same age was 6'4.