The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018
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Sure I heard his dad was a massive Man U fan.Anyways honestly think people are reading too much into his absence.Hes schedule is pretty messed up due to injury and U19s.He had 2 spells of injury last season and right now we are a bit short in the AM department.Its very possible they just want to get his schedule fitness wise back on track without risking him unnecessarily.Theres quite a few other strange absences from the tour,so we really have no idea why that is.As said personally I think they just want to get his schedule back on track and have a proper pre season.we defo may need him early on to sit in the bench.i would say come our 1st league cup game if he is nowhere to be seen then start to worry.
Bus-Conductor
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His Dad is a ManU fan.
BPR_U16
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Unless you are playing pointless matches as ManU were last season when resting players, then it can be seen that youth is currently given few chances to break through - we have been one of the better clubs over last few years.
So Edwards might as well extend his contract here if that stops any potential impasse and see what develops
So Edwards might as well extend his contract here if that stops any potential impasse and see what develops
Lilbaz
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My mate is nick tsaroulas uncle and see's edwards dad at games.
beats1
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All of whom came under a different system, under a system where we loaned out all of our players
Currently we dont loan out our best players, so they are inexperienced but the best players potentially get a big opportunity for the first team
The others are expected to play youth football and if they are lucky go on loan where most of them, tend not to play anyway at their club
I cant believe Kevin Stewart is worth £8m but I dont think he would even get a club like Hull had he stayed and probably looking at league 1/2 football
Speaking to some of the parents and one of the chelsea coaches, they are proud and boast that the reason people should go to them is that they can give you a career in football even though they aren't bringing players through
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When you chose Sky Andrews player agency to represent you (he is nominally the secretary but the clearly most experienced/powerful figure there) it presumably can only be heard by our club as a statement that you wont be a club-loyal player. And sad though it is if when your best talents are not on board with your clubs vision, if Marcus wants to throw the next year or two of development in the bin before going to Man U reserves the we move onto the next one.
If it was just about the Edwards camp having a concern of receiving game time/opportunities and a salary track commensurate to his talent then I suspect we would have agreed a ramping up contract that works for both sides by now unfortunately... A pay rise to circa 5k this year with a short term deal until 2019 and an auto triggered salary doubling+bonuses after he makes 5 first team appearances...another doubling and year extension after 10 more... and another year and doubling after 15 more etc. He'd be pushing 40K+ bonuses within a year imo on talent on a still relatively short term deal, and then he could decide if he wants to commit to a long term future and a top tier deal (probably as much as 150k/week by then) at Spurs.
He'd go straight into the 18 for early season games with no Barkley, Son, Lamella, Sissoko (+Ali in the champions league) available....but if he misses this window of coming days to commit then my prediction is that he goes abroad on a free in 12 months before bouncing around clubs like the even more outstandingly talented players like Ravel Morrison modeled at Man U. As he pushes 20 without game time no top club will be as invested as we are in developing a non-home grown frail luxury player responsibly as we have cause to be. It would be a tragic waste of talent but thats where this train wreck of a situation appears to be heading imo...Napoleon syndrome
I have no info, but I don't see that the club could have allowed their most talented youth prospect to get to this stage if there was a genuine desire to compromise that would have emerged by now.
That kind of a contract structure would incentivise both parties to work to develop him with game time and should remove the trust gap by contacting it and preventing a Sol Campbell situation emerging...giving appropriate short term compensation and us the minimum years buffer policy we require before exposing playing assets to doped clubs predation and humiliation of the last decades of our clubs development strategy.
Not that I don't understand their approach as we are a genuine threat to Man U's hegemony over the next decade, but it seems nothing less than a policy of industrial sabotage...it's not sporting and it's the Bayern/Madrid thing exported to the Perm that we have to stand up against.
This approach Man U are undertaking towards our clubs young english core as Mourinho complains in public that they have the economic power but 'other clubs still say no'... these cheek of us (aggressively targeting McDermott, Mckenna, Dier and others). For this reason we shouldn't sell Dier even at world record levels, nor even train Edwards for others to benefit if he doesn't sign imminently imo.
I struggle to see what credibility the Edwards has in any of our older fans eyes to make demands on a club that has developed him to the point of potential greatness when the final leap requires physical development and injury free status he alone can deliver on. I have no sympathy/patience for the argument that Edwards deserves further special treatment and patience after employing Sol Campbell's agent - an act that can only be interpreted as poisoning good will in any negotiations. Once burnt fool you...twice burnt fool me...
If it was just about the Edwards camp having a concern of receiving game time/opportunities and a salary track commensurate to his talent then I suspect we would have agreed a ramping up contract that works for both sides by now unfortunately... A pay rise to circa 5k this year with a short term deal until 2019 and an auto triggered salary doubling+bonuses after he makes 5 first team appearances...another doubling and year extension after 10 more... and another year and doubling after 15 more etc. He'd be pushing 40K+ bonuses within a year imo on talent on a still relatively short term deal, and then he could decide if he wants to commit to a long term future and a top tier deal (probably as much as 150k/week by then) at Spurs.
He'd go straight into the 18 for early season games with no Barkley, Son, Lamella, Sissoko (+Ali in the champions league) available....but if he misses this window of coming days to commit then my prediction is that he goes abroad on a free in 12 months before bouncing around clubs like the even more outstandingly talented players like Ravel Morrison modeled at Man U. As he pushes 20 without game time no top club will be as invested as we are in developing a non-home grown frail luxury player responsibly as we have cause to be. It would be a tragic waste of talent but thats where this train wreck of a situation appears to be heading imo...Napoleon syndrome
I have no info, but I don't see that the club could have allowed their most talented youth prospect to get to this stage if there was a genuine desire to compromise that would have emerged by now.
That kind of a contract structure would incentivise both parties to work to develop him with game time and should remove the trust gap by contacting it and preventing a Sol Campbell situation emerging...giving appropriate short term compensation and us the minimum years buffer policy we require before exposing playing assets to doped clubs predation and humiliation of the last decades of our clubs development strategy.
Not that I don't understand their approach as we are a genuine threat to Man U's hegemony over the next decade, but it seems nothing less than a policy of industrial sabotage...it's not sporting and it's the Bayern/Madrid thing exported to the Perm that we have to stand up against.
This approach Man U are undertaking towards our clubs young english core as Mourinho complains in public that they have the economic power but 'other clubs still say no'... these cheek of us (aggressively targeting McDermott, Mckenna, Dier and others). For this reason we shouldn't sell Dier even at world record levels, nor even train Edwards for others to benefit if he doesn't sign imminently imo.
I struggle to see what credibility the Edwards has in any of our older fans eyes to make demands on a club that has developed him to the point of potential greatness when the final leap requires physical development and injury free status he alone can deliver on. I have no sympathy/patience for the argument that Edwards deserves further special treatment and patience after employing Sol Campbell's agent - an act that can only be interpreted as poisoning good will in any negotiations. Once burnt fool you...twice burnt fool me...
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Just watching West Ham v Fulham .Lots of comments on Fulham twitter that they are basically awful not signed anyone ,gonna have a terrible season.Wonder if Sessegnon might be having 2nd thoughts.Although have to say his U19 performance wasn't outstanding.Still a cheeky bid may be in order.Maybe he will end up being a LB.Really would be perfect long term successor to rose.
IGSpur
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There is no guarantee of this though which is the issue. KWP is one of our most talented players and has turned 20 and hasn't played a single professional minutes. And at 20 Winks had played (according to transfermarkt) a combined 20 professional minutes. What is to say that staying with us, is guarantee him games.
I've no doubt that the ball has always been in Edwards' court to an extent. It is his choice whether to sign or not, but for him there is no guarantee he will get any games here, so I can somewhat understand why is reluctant to sign up 3 years of his life and trust to club when he knows he could probably go elsewhere and either get more money or drop down a club and get more time. It's an unfortunate place to be for him, either waste a year of my life or trust the club implicitly based off the fact that under Poch's method of developing and bringing through academy players there is only one 'success' in Winks.
For as long as I've known about this situation, I haven't been optimistic. I know the club will not change its stance so its just whether Edwards decides to trust us. If he left I don't think its all doom and gloom and there is nothing to suggest he'd be any better staying here. Since Poch has taken over, United have had Rashford come through, (even Fosu-Mensah, who some of our fans wanted to sign), Everton have had Davies, DCL and Stones, City have had Iheanacho, Arsenal have had Iwobi and Bellerin. I believe all of these guys have had similar minutes to Winks and all bar Bellerin and Stones are younger. There is nothing to suggest that staying here under Poch means he is more likely to come through, whch is the hardest part of all. I have no doubt that once he comes through that there is no better manager to develop you, but you need to get there first.
I want him to stay, and believe he should stay but I can understand why he is hesitant to commit 3 years of his life to us, when all he wants to do is become a PL player. Hopefully, he is talked around.
IGSpur
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I wouldn't be concerned. We can't sweep everyone up. Eyoma is ahead of him in teh England pecking order, plus we have 3 players the year above him who have all played CB for the age group above. Tanganga being the real quality one. Plus Brown is probably as good at CB and likely a better LB than Gibson.
Re the players on tour, I think people are incredibly harsh on Dinzeyi. To put into context he is going at 17. I can't even remember if Onomah went on preseason tour at 17.
Dinzeyi is a lot better than Walkes at CB at the same age and I reckon even when Walkes was taken last year on preseason. I was massively impressed the first time I saw Dinzeyi play I was very impressed. He can look clumsy sometimes and CB isn't his natural position but I think it will be great experiencing for him. I don't think he is better than Eyoma or Tanganga but there's no knowing how some players develop.
Also I think Brown is a good choice to go. I think he is solid and as BG said played well at u23s. I think he is a good player and this could also really help him. I also think he will impress a lot of people. There are some obvious strange choices and players I would like to have gone that haven't and there must be reasons, but realistically none of them will play next season so its not a massive issue. The only one I'm annoyed about is Edwards
Thanks for the encouraging info that Eyoma and Brown are probably better than the £6 million Lewis Gibson.
What do you think Dinzeyi's natural position is? First time I saw him, I thought he looked to have plenty of potential, but then in one of the CL age group matches, he looked clumsy (as you suggested).
Cornpattbuck
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Still not sure I get your point. Kevin Stewart's nearly 24 and from pretty much the same batch as those mentioned...
Be interested to see how many of our talented youth players go on to have no career though...?!
spursfan77
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That sounds like Spurs fans on twitter this whole summer to be fair!
IGSpur
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I imagine Everton want him is because they don't have as many quality CB options as us. The only decent CB i know of from them is Morgan Feeney who is jT,JD and JB's age group and I don't remember being particularly impressed by him, so they could certainlydo with him over us.
What I've found is Everton don't produce very good CBs but I'll give them their dues they buy and develop them well. e.g. Stones, Holgate and Galloway
He used to be a winger I believe up until u15s maybe even early u16s, then I think he had a massive growth spurt. So he was moved to CB. I think the new position plus he was growing and understanding his body meant he appeared clumsy, but remember he was playing up a lot for the u18s. I think there is a player in there but I definitely believe Tanganga and Eyoma are better at the moment
beats1
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The point is you are saying the talented ones, but a lot of the players in that list and in the lower leagues came through a different system where we would loan out player even if they weren't talented.
For example your list included
Livermore
Carroll
Pritchard
Townsend
Mason
Now all of these players weren't tipped for greatness and for the first team when they were at the age of edwards and onomah were except for Mason. Carroll and Townsend got tipped for the first team at later age around 19 and 21 after good loans at leyton and QPR.
These weren't top tier players like Onomah, Edwards and even Winks
The players like Livermore, Rose, Carroll, Townsend and even Pritchard were a level below the likes of Edwards, the current crop of those types of players(harrison, Amos, Oduwa and etc.) havent been developed as well in the current system. We are becoming like arsenal were before their demise focusing on only the really talented ones as a result and wanting the next big thing to come through.
The only players, out of the current lot that are being tipped for having good careers are our most highly rated players we have ever had.
So you saying it will be interesting to see how our talented youth will go on to have no career though, overlooks the point I'm making.
When attracting parents to their club, chelsea are pointing out whilst we may not be producing players for the first team, out of our yearly intake most of them are going on to have careers. Considering we intake around 14 each year(more now), how many of the 14 of the intake are going on to have careers under the current setup?
There isnt any doubt about the KWP, Edwards and etc but what about the other 12 players per year?
IGSpur
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I think beats1 is saying that under Poch's regime there is no guarantee of anything as we don't know how things pan out.
The only player that has come through since Poch joined is Winks. The only other player who appears to be doing well and was Winks' age group s Veljkovic who is playing regularly in one of Europe's top 5 leagues. And he was also placed in a similar position to Edwards. Poch came in first season, sent him on loan, as he wanted to buy players in his first season. He got injured (not unlike Edwards) and returned 2nd half of season. Won WC. Was offered a new contract (like Edwards), rejected it as I understood he wanted game time. Was essentially blackballed for a season (could happen to Edwards) left and is now playing in Bundesliga.
It will be interesting to see after Poch leaves how many of our current best academy players are playing football.
By comparison I think beats was comparing it to Redknapp's send them on loan and chuck them into the EL policy. From that method, we have Smith, Carroll, Kane, Rose, Townsend, Caulker, Mason, Livermore who are all PL players and Luongo and Fredericks who are regulars in the Championship. I think their could have been more subtly and not every method is fool proof, but the results have been pretty good, when he had a talented group of players in our academy.
As you say it will be interesting to see where an equally or more talented group of players are in a few years time under Poch's tutelage, to compare methods
spurs9
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The example you gave (Kevin Stewart) was under the old system, as he was released just before Poch (who implemented the no loan of best players) arrived.
It is far too early to tell if the system implemented 3 years ago is a success or failure and the only players that you could asses from this policy are Onomah, Winks, KWP, CCV and Edwards.
The part in bold kind of contradicts your point about loans, as, if they aren't being played, surely they are not beneficial and not quite sure how you are blaming our policy for other coaches not playing them.
I would ignore the transfer fee Stewart went for, the fees players are going for are absolutely crazy.
IGSpur
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I see what you're saying. Join us an you'll get a lot initial money but also a very good chance of becoming a Championship player.
Whereas join us you won't get money, and there is a small chance you might become a PL player, or a lower league player. Hedging bets and you can see why players would go Chelsea in that sense.
spurs9
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It's a BS comparison at this stage though. All the players you mention (that left) made their moves when they were around 23/24. Also, I don't think Mason would have gone to a PL team if he had been loaned out again rather than kept and played by Poch. How many loans did Bentaleb go on?
Surely Veljkovic is a bad example, since Poch sent him out on loan?
In a few years time it will be worth assessing, but right now is pointless for fans to try and predict what would happen.
